Whats the point in saving a life?

[ShynSup]

Is your qualm mainly directed at doctors?

Anyways, at the end of the day, we don’t save souls, the Holy Spirit does. I’m reminded of Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta. Mother Teresa was definitely interested in the temporal welfare of many people… caring for the sick, and nursing them back to health. But, she was also intensely interested in their spiritual salvation as well. And, many people converted because of her. However, that doesn’t represent a majority of the people she treated.

The vast majority of the people she treated weren’t Christians, and probably didn’t become Christians. But, she planted seeds. In some people, those seeds were watered and grew by the Holy Spirit, in most cases they did not grow (look at 1 Corinthians 3:6 for example).

We are charged to fulfill the Great Commission, and to convert all peoples and all nations. But, we don’t do the converting, God does. And, it sounds wrong of you to say definitively that doctors aren’t already striving to do this in their work.

I’ve heard a lot of stories about people coming to Christ on their death bed, or in a hospital, and they later recovered.

**Again, just because it is the job of a doctor to save someone’s physical body, doesn’t mean they don’t actively participate in fulfilling the Great Commission.
**

Stop making assumptions.
I’m sure you’ve heard that little pun about what happens when you make assumptions?
Well, don’t do it.

Focus on converting people yourself.

What’s wrong with the world? Is it doctors who don’t save people’s souls?
I am.

I am wrong with the world. That’s what G.K. Chesterton said, and I feel that you, me, and everyone on this thread can benefit from reflecting on that.

No againt doctors, they are just the perfect example.

But againt everyone that does a saving of a life.

“Life”

A saving of an earthly “life”

Honestly, how would you feel if you knew that the man you saved a year ago, the man that was about to drown on the sea, is now in hell.

I would fell as if that saving was for nothing. Woulnt you?

---

I am not making assumptions, I am talking generally.

Of course God and the Holy Spirit, make the conversion. Only God can change the heart. Never said otherwise.

What I mean is that people seem to be much more conserned dor the body health than the spiritual health. And thus people tend to prioritize the first one, instead of the soul, which is by far more important, as the soul is eternal and the body is temporary.

I repeat myself. I do not understand how someone can feel like he has done something good after saving a temporary life and not even trying to save an eternal life.
Just as rehab takes time. Doctors should consantly check on their patients, so see how they are doing, in fact they do. So they shoul start caring about the soul a little bit more, establishing this doctor patient relation, praying for them, talking to them about the bible, encoureging them to go to mass, etc.

 

[Grym]

As far as I can see. There are three (two) reasons to save a persons life

1. Out of love for myself (The foremost). So the outcome for the person saved is of no real consequence in that case.
2. Because the kind of world where people in need get help is the kind of world we want to live in. This is the second most important reason and is related to no 1.
3. Out of true love/compassion for the person in need.

/Victor

 

[kingston1]

or to put your question another way: kill em all and let God sort em out…

 

[meltzerboy]

As far as I can see. There are two reasons to save a persons life

1. Out of love for myself (The foremost of the two). So the outcome for the person saved is of no real consequence in that case.
2. Because the kind of world where people in need get help is the kind of world we want to live in. This is the second most important reason and is related to no 1.
3. Out of true love/compassion for the person in need.

/Victor

Could you elaborate upon the first reason, and would it still apply if you sacrificed your own life to save the life of another?

 

[meltzerboy]

No againt doctors, they are just the perfect example.

But againt everyone that does a saving of a life.

“Life”

A saving of an earthly “life”

Honestly, how would you feel if you knew that the man you saved a year ago, the man that was about to drown on the sea, is now in hell.

I would fell as if that saving was for nothing. Woulnt you?

---

I am not making assumptions, I am talking generally.

Of course God and the Holy Spirit, make the conversion. Only God can change the heart. Never said otherwise.

What I mean is that people seem to be much more conserned dor the body health than the spiritual health. And thus people tend to prioritize the first one, instead of the soul, which is by far more important, as the soul is eternal and the body is temporary.

I repeat myself. I do not understand how someone can feel like he has done something good after saving a temporary life and not even trying to save an eternal life.
Just as rehab takes time. Doctors should consantly check on their patients, so see how they are doing, in fact they do. So they shoul start caring about the soul a little bit more, establishing this doctor patient relation, praying for them, talking to them about the bible, encoureging them to go to mass, etc.

However, you don’t know, and neither does anyone else, whether the person you saved will go to heaven or hell. It is not your responsibility as a doctor to know that, whereas it is your responsibility to attempt to save them, if it is within your power. By doing so, you are showing your love toward them and toward G-d.

 

[Grym]

Could you elaborate upon the first reason, and would it still apply if you sacrificed your own life to save the life of another?

Yes It does apply even when risking your life.

Why did I step between a man with a knife and his victim lying on the floor? It is the same reasons I speak up when somebody is verbly abused too.

First reason is that I feel good when I think I make a difference and I look forward to the high afterwards. It also plays in how others perceive my action and value it! Like my family and friends and maybe also the buddhist community I attend.
Gratification is a drug!

Second reason is that I will feel like an idiot and have a guilty conscience if I knew I could have helped out but did not. And again how I think other people will judge me plays in here too.

I know of a person who saw a girl being dragged into a car and taken away againt her will.
He was in a foreign country and did not know even how to get hold of the police. It was very hard for him long after that he could not do anything.

Did you know that altruism is probably built into our genes? There are scientific studies on that.

So the bodies gratification/guilt process when being altruistic or not is probably genetic.

/Victor

 

[Gertabelle]

When I see someone in danger of loosing his life, I will obviously help him, but then realize I actually did nothing: if he was going to heaven I would feel bad about what I just did. If he was going to hell I would say: " I might have given this guy another chance" but what do i expect, a miraculous conversion? After I saved his life I will hope he chnages? And finds his way to heaven? Doctors are so ignorant.

Why do we get so crazy about people daying to this life and not daying to the important life?
Your opinion?

Wow, you are so far off the Catholic mark, it’s beyond funny.

First of all, as that sinner destined to hell who DID have a miraculous conversion, it would have ticked God off if you had just let me die because you didn’t think God was big enough to do what He said He would do – call souls to Himself. Seriously, if I had died while still in that life of sin, I would have gone to hell. And you have the audacity to suggest that God would be OK with that? You mock our hope and confidence that God will change hearts, that our prayers and sacrifices actually do have value.

And by the way, it’s not my doctor’s job to check the state of my soul. It’s her job to help me stay alive and fit, so I can serve God and win souls for Christ that He may be loved.

As an example, I am a public school teacher. I would lose my job (and all contact with my students and their families) if I started checking the state of their souls. My job is to teach them, to give them the skills and knowledge they need to serve God in this life. Just today we found out that some of our students are having to deal with the murder of two family members last weekend. If I try to play pastor to them instead of teacher – and as a result lose my job – I don’t have the contact with my students to know what’s going on, to have a tender heart for their pain, to pray for them and ask others to do so, and to serve them as Christ with meals, hugs, and support.

Second, your line of thinking is completely out of line with the example of Christ and His Saints throughout the ages. Christ both healed and brought back to life. His Saints have done the same for 2,000 years.

Seriously, I will dance a jig of joy if God allows me to suffer this earthly life for 150 years – think of all the acts of faith and hope and love I can make in those years! Think of all the souls my time, treasures, and talents can touch! Think of all the rosaries I can pray and sacrifices I can offer for my old friends from my years of sinful living! Think of all the missionaries I can support through my prayers and financial donations!

This life is only meaningless if I make it all about me. And who cares if I have to endure a century or more of exile! Heaven is eternal!!!

You sound very young, and I hope and pray your thoughts are born from youthful enthusiasm combined with youthful ignorance.

This earthly life is God’s gift to us. And we are meant to use it – not bury it in the sand by wishing for our exile to end, nor by judging and condemning those who have not accepted God’s love yet.

Sorry, I’m a little fired up about this one.

God bless y’all.

Gertie

 

[RC_Sojourner]

No againt doctors, they are just the perfect example.

But againt everyone that does a saving of a life.

“Life”

A saving of an earthly “life”

Honestly, how would you feel if you knew that the man you saved a year ago, the man that was about to drown on the sea, is now in hell.

I would fell as if that saving was for nothing. Woulnt you?

---

I am not making assumptions, I am talking generally.

Of course God and the Holy Spirit, make the conversion. Only God can change the heart. Never said otherwise.

I repeat myself. I do not understand how someone can feel like he has done something good after saving a temporary life and not even trying to save an eternal life.
Just as rehab takes time. Doctors should consantly check on their patients, so see how they are doing, in fact they do. So they shoul start caring about the soul a little bit more, establishing this doctor patient relation, praying for them, talking to them about the bible, encoureging them to go to mass, etc.

1. There are over 600 Catholic hospitals in the U.S. alone. I know that from researching the HHS mandate. So, just keep that in mind, how many Catholic doctors and nurses there are in this country alone, some of whom are nuns, etc.
2. When these doctors go home to their life outside of the hospital. Maybe they attend Mass weekly. Maybe they attend daily Mass. Maybe they’re very involved in their parish.
   You don’t know.

ShynSup:

people seem to be much more concerned for the body health than the spiritual health

You seem to have nothing to verify this as being true.

ShynSup:

I repeat myself. I do not understand how someone can feel like he has done something good after saving a temporary life and not even trying to save an eternal life.

Let me repeat myself, word for word, from my last post:

**just because it is the job of a doctor to save someone’s physical body, doesn’t mean they don’t actively participate in fulfilling the Great Commission.
**

As far as I’m concerned, that should be the end of this thread. The thread is mere speculation. And speculation towards the negative.

Go tell these things to a priest, I guarantee you that a priest would disagree with this entire thread of reasoning from you. Do you have control over how other people live their lives? No, you only have control over you. Why don’t you discern what the Spirit wants you to do, instead of pointing a finger at how everyone else is doing so poorly in serving God, ok?

When we get to Heaven, we will have a lot of regrets about things we didn’t do while here on Earth. It is not your job to point out these things to other people. We will all have regrets of things we didn’t do, including you. Focus on your own holiness.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Think of all the missionaries I can support through my prayers and financial donations!

This is a great point that I have to comment on. God calls us to use our talents. Those talents might be having the intelligence to go to Med school for 8+ years, become a doctor, and save people’s lives! That’s amazing! That is an amazing use of your God-given talents to glorify His name.

But, if that doesn’t satisfy the OP (as the OP claims

ShynSup:

Doctors are so ignorant.

)

If THAT doesn’t satisfy the OP. There are many many doctors out there who are using their salaries from their job to pay the traveling/ living expenses of missionaries, or giving to so many ministries that the Church does.

Think of the Knights of Columbus. The Knights are almost all laymen. They all have jobs, or have had jobs. Now they’re in a charitable organization that has been described as “the strong right arm that props up the Church”- my paraphrase from memory.

Lets say those Knights were doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc. And none of them ever talked about their faith at work, or prayed for anyone they worked with [None of them ever did this, for the sake of this hypothetical, even though that’s obviously false]. Well, outside of work they do Knights of Columbus charities, etc.

The OP does not know which people are concerned for others’ salvation, and which ones are not. You don’t know that. So stop concerning yourself with that.

Focus on YOUR own holiness. Focus on the people that YOU can save.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Forgive my triple post, but this Scripture is the answer to this thread, I believe:
**
“Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye’, while the wooden beam is in your own eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.” - Matthew 7:3-5**

 

[ShynSup]

Wow, you are so far off the Catholic mark, it’s beyond funny.

First of all, as that sinner destined to hell who DID have a miraculous conversion, it would have ticked God off if you had just let me die because you didn’t think God was big enough to do what He said He would do – call souls to Himself. Seriously, if I had died while still in that life of sin, I would have gone to hell. And you have the audacity to suggest that God would be OK with that? You mock our hope and confidence that God will change hearts, that our prayers and sacrifices actually do have value.

And by the way, it’s not my doctor’s job to check the state of my soul. It’s her job to help me stay alive and fit, so I can serve God and win souls for Christ that He may be loved.

As an example, I am a public school teacher. I would lose my job (and all contact with my students and their families) if I started checking the state of their souls. My job is to teach them, to give them the skills and knowledge they need to serve God in this life. Just today we found out that some of our students are having to deal with the murder of two family members last weekend. If I try to play pastor to them instead of teacher – and as a result lose my job – I don’t have the contact with my students to know what’s going on, to have a tender heart for their pain, to pray for them and ask others to do so, and to serve them as Christ with meals, hugs, and support.

Second, your line of thinking is completely out of line with the example of Christ and His Saints throughout the ages. Christ both healed and brought back to life. His Saints have done the same for 2,000 years.

Seriously, I will dance a jig of joy if God allows me to suffer this earthly life for 150 years – think of all the acts of faith and hope and love I can make in those years! Think of all the souls my time, treasures, and talents can touch! Think of all the rosaries I can pray and sacrifices I can offer for my old friends from my years of sinful living! Think of all the missionaries I can support through my prayers and financial donations!

This life is only meaningless if I make it all about me. And who cares if I have to endure a century or more of exile! Heaven is eternal!!!

You sound very young, and I hope and pray your thoughts are born from youthful enthusiasm combined with youthful ignorance.

This earthly life is God’s gift to us. And we are meant to use it – not bury it in the sand by wishing for our exile to end, nor by judging and condemning those who have not accepted God’s love yet.

Sorry, I’m a little fired up about this one.

God bless y’all.

Gertie

Talking about being off the Catholic mark…

Thanks for your reply, was quite, how to put it? Full of emotions…

First of all, I am not denying miraculous conversions. As the bible well explains many, Paul’s as the most noticiable one.

I do not mock anything. Nor never said that sacrfices, or prayers dont have value.

Exactly what I meant is that if you dont do the above, saving a life is not of much importance.
You made my point even clearer. A doctor should pray and make sacrifices for its patients. Same as you for your students.

Same as everyone for every life you save. Because saving the, eternally is much more valuable than saving them in this temporary life.

There is no purpose on it, if you dont even try, dont even make an effort to try and save them in the life that actually matters. At least pray, God will do the rest. No need to preach, as you well said, it may even drive people away in delicate situations.

What about Jesus and his saits miracles? Never reffered to the, in any form, I do not understand what your are making that conexion…

This earthly life is a punishment. Thats why there is so much pain, so much suffering, its called an exile for a reason.

Still, life is a gift, because of the promise of heaven.

And we all have a purpose in Earth, some may do as Gods will says, some others may not.

I am not saying " we should not save people because they will,probably end in hell sooner or later"

What I am saying is: “we should care more about the soul than the body, and thus, invest our main strengths into saving the soul. Saving the body on itsown is meaningless if it does not come with a spiritual guidance after”

It is good to hope for a miraculous conversion, but these often do no come out of nothing, but of the praying and sacrifice of others, just as Saint Monica did for her son.
Now, what if someone would have saved you from death, in your sinnful days, and there was no one to pray to God for you, to help and guide you?
Just saving people would mean " I saved his body, let someone else occupy for his soul, too much work for me already"
You gotta stop thinking there is always someone there asking God for conversions, and you should start doind it, that is what I mean.

Imagine if every doctor also cared for the soul of their patients…

Finally, I never judged or condemend no one…

PD, sorry for errors, no pc, just ipad.

 

[ShynSup]

1. There are over 600 Catholic hospitals in the U.S. alone. I know that from researching the HHS mandate. So, just keep that in mind, how many Catholic doctors and nurses there are in this country alone, some of whom are nuns, etc.
2. When these doctors go home to their life outside of the hospital. Maybe they attend Mass weekly. Maybe they attend daily Mass. Maybe they’re very involved in their parish.
   You don’t know.

You seem to have nothing to verify this as being true.

Let me repeat myself, word for word, from my last post:

**just because it is the job of a doctor to save someone’s physical body, doesn’t mean they don’t actively participate in fulfilling the Great Commission.
**

As far as I’m concerned, that should be the end of this thread. The thread is mere speculation. And speculation towards the negative.

Go tell these things to a priest, I guarantee you that a priest would disagree with this entire thread of reasoning from you. Do you have control over how other people live their lives? No, you only have control over you. Why don’t you discern what the Spirit wants you to do, instead of pointing a finger at how everyone else is doing so poorly in serving God, ok?

When we get to Heaven, we will have a lot of regrets about things we didn’t do while here on Earth. It is not your job to point out these things to other people. We will all have regrets of things we didn’t do, including you. Focus on your own holiness.

I am speaking generally, of course there might be some doctors and nurses that do it, but most dont. Anyways, the point is not just to doctors but to anyone who saves a life. For example saving soemone from drowning at the beach.

Regarding the statement " people seem to be more concern for their body health than the spiritual health"

Well, the bible is proof of it. The gate to hell is wide while the door to haven is small.

Lastly, in heaven there will be no regrets lol, you got it wrong. Just with seeing the holiness of Jesus and He infront of your eyes what you will ezperience is total hapiness,nothing more. Regrets…lol.