What's the point of anything in this life if we are meant for the Next?

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WonderAndAwe

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If we are meant for the Next Life, why care about anything in this one? There’s so much bad stuff happening and so many people worried about bad stuff that might happen soon (look at the World News and End Times Speculation threads) that it just makes every aspect of this life seem pointless and that a nihilistic approach would be more appropriate

Also, this opening post would be MUCH longer but everything I typed sounded like a cry for help.
 
This is one reason why Atheists and Agnostics say that with their beliefs…they go all out to enjoy every moment and make the most of every second and person in their lives, because this may be all we each have.
For those who think the good stuff all happens later…they might squander what is now because they are living for the future instead of the present…and then they might discover…there is no later.

But the Atheist/Agnostic approach would still not be described as “nihilistic”.
More so, it would be quite optimistic and in-the-moment kind of joy of life.

.
That’s because it is nihilistic. Nihilistic and worthless.

Still doesn’t answer my question.
 
Grace & Peace!
If we are meant for the Next Life, why care about anything in this one? There’s so much bad stuff happening and so many people worried about bad stuff that might happen soon (look at the World News and End Times Speculation threads) that it just makes every aspect of this life seem pointless and that a nihilistic approach would be more appropriate.
Take heart, Wonder! Here’s the secret: the distinction between the next world and this world is a metaphorical/linguistic one. This world is shot through with the next, as Gerard Manley Hopkins reminds us:

The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
It will flame out like shining from shook foil.

The difficulty is this: we are not available to the Next World in the same way that the Next World is always, relentlessly and gratuitously available to us. Think of the Eucharist: if we could truly see it as it really and truly is, and in the same way the Eucharist sees us as we are (and it does and it does and it always always does), we’d be gobsmacked, humbled, ashamed, enraptured and quickened in a heartbeat. The reality of the Eucharist is also the mystery of the whole world: it’s not a “this world” and a “that world” in opposition to each other or contrasted with each other, but the reality of grace that informs and enlivens all that is, that burns brightly at the heart of everything.

That’s not to say that sin doesn’t have consequences. It does. Bad stuff happens. But the chief consequence of sin is that it removes us from a right apprehension of the nature of the Real–it undoes us, it obscures our vision, it deforms our perceptions. We come to think that the deformity is what’s real–it’s all we see, it must be real. But it’s the grandeur of God that is the Reality. The grandeur and the grace that is nearer to us than our own blood, that is the Breath of our breath, that is the superabundant Light by which we see and that longs to heal our seeing.

Nihilism can be attractive, but its uses are limited. Don’t get trapped in an empty despair that is little more than a thwarted hope because, in the words of Eliot, you had “hope[d] for the wrong thing.” Actually, Eliot’s words in “East Coker” (from Four Quartets) are germane here:

I said to my soul, be still and wait without hope
For hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love
For love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith
But the faith and love and the hope are all in the waiting.
Wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought:
So the darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing. (EC, III, 23-28)

This is the way of Christian apophatic theology. This is St. John of the Cross’ Ascent of Mount Carmel (Eliot riffs off St. John in “East Coker,” too). This is the Pseudo-Denys’ Mystical Theology, this is the end of St. Bonaventure’s Itinerarium Mentis in Deum, this is Meister Eckhart’s practice of detachment (St. John’s, too: “In this detachment the spiritual soul finds its quiet and repose; for, since it covets nothing, nothing wearies it when it is lifted up, and nothing oppresses it when it is cast down, because it is in the centre of its humility; but when it covets anything, at that very moment it becomes wearied” [Ascent of Mount Carmel, Book 1, Ch. XIII]).

The world is indeed passing away, and it is passing away in two different manners: 1) the world of human culture and death-centeredness is passing away, revealed as little more than smoke and shadow in the gentle light of the Resurrection of Christ; 2) the created world is passing into its eschatological fulfillment. Both of these things are good news! So what to do? Hold lightly to what is passing away. Cling firmly to the grace by which all things are. The Next World is here in this one, the Next World is the Reality of this one. The two are not in conflict. Heaven and Earth have been reconciled in the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, by whom we were made, for whom we were made, and to whom be glory unto the ages of ages.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
If we are meant for the Next Life, why care about anything in this one? There’s so much bad stuff happening and so many people worried about bad stuff that might happen soon (look at the World News and End Times Speculation threads) that it just makes every aspect of this life seem pointless and that a nihilistic approach would be more appropriate

Also, this opening post would be MUCH longer but everything I typed sounded like a cry for help.
There is so much suffering and so many needs to be filled here that this life affords us the opportunity to grow in and express love-which is what we’ll be judged on. So we need to get busy-opting out is not an option. We’re to always choose and advance life, not death.
 
This is one reason why Atheists and Agnostics say that with their beliefs…they go all out to enjoy every moment and make the most of every second and person in their lives, because this may be all we each have.
For those who think the good stuff all happens later…they might squander what is now because they are living for the future instead of the present…and then they might discover…there is no later.

But the Atheist/Agnostic approach would still not be described as “nihilistic”.
More so, it would be quite and in-the-moment kind of joy of life.

.
I’ve never really understood this. If, according to Atheism, we cease to exist at death, how would anyone ever know that they squandered their lives? You wouldn’t exist to be able to look back on your life to either be depressed that you missed out or happy that you made the most of it.
 
This is one reason why Atheists and Agnostics say that with their beliefs…they go all out to enjoy every moment and make the most of every second and person in their lives, because this may be all we each have.
For those who think the good stuff all happens later…they might squander what is now because they are living for the future instead of the present…and then they might discover…there is no later.

But the Atheist/Agnostic approach would still not be described as “nihilistic”.
More so, it would be quite optimistic and in-the-moment kind of joy of life.

.
It is the same in Judaism. We live for the here and now with the qualification that we are obligated to live joyously not only for ourselves but for the betterment of others in any way we can. Our purpose in life is to love our fellow human being (and animals as well as all of G-d’s creation) as we do ourselves, through our behavior toward them, and, by doing so, obey G-d’s commandments. The World to Come (if there is one) for each of us we entrust to G-d and this should not be our concern in the present life. We do not achieve heaven by either faith or works but according to G-d’s will and plan for us, and we are to be comforted by this knowledge.
 
The Kingdom of God is here! Our Lord Jesus Christ is with us, and He makes all things new.

2,000 years ago Our Lord Jesus Christ left us the means to be sanctified with His grace and He is still with us.

We have the freedom to make the right choices and spread His Kingdom of Truth and Love.

If we persevere we will be with Him and many others forever in the joy and ecstasy of Life in union with Him. (Heaven)

This life is our testing, our time for spiritual growth!

I pray that many others will come to know the Lord.
 
Yes, MB! I’ve heard you describe this before and am always happy when I read your posts about this.
It’s funny that this is very much like how an Atheist attempts to approach life (minus the “God” part).
I like it. It makes solid sense to me.
I suppose if I was religious, I might choose Judaism 🙂
(except for that whole mixing milk/meat thing. Ah, there’s the rub…)

.
I am not proselytizing, but there are plenty of Jews who do mix milk and meat…mainly in the form of cheeseburgers, I suppose. Many Reform Jews are lax regarding the dietary laws. Some disregard all of them although the official Reform policy is no pork or shellfish and no mixing of meat and dairy, at least not in the same dish. This is still a far cry from the strict Orthodox kosher laws. The rub is not really the dietary laws but the G-d part.
 
A Theist–or anyone–who only lived for a promised “next life” and didn’t enjoy a moment while alive in the present may never know that they squandered their lives.
Unless in the very end, we are made aware that there is nothing else after.

For those who make what they can of every moment…they know during their lives that they are doing so.

.
But by what process could we be made aware? That doesn’t seem to fit with any version of Naturalism that I’m aware of.

And to answer the OP’s questions, I think that this life matters a lot. In fact, Christianity says the same thing. While we are to look forward with hope to Heaven, we are also supposed to live a meaningful life here. If this wasn’t so, then why would God instruct us to love our neighbor, help the poor, etc. if this life didn’t matter? Christianity doesn’t tell us that this life is meaningless. It tells us that it is so meaningful that our choices and actions here can have eternal consequences. As C.S. Lewis mentioned somewhere, this world is a forge of souls. This life is much more important than mere happiness.

I don’t think that this means that we are to be stoic about our lives in this world. I don’t think that God expects us to squander this life, or that he means for us to be miserable now so that we can be happy in Heaven. But I do think that people who say that “the purpose of this life is happiness” are mistaken. The purpose of this life is God (or Truth, or Goodness, ultimately we mean the same thing). God doesn’t want us to be miserable. He want’s us to be joyful and happy in this life. But, if there ever comes a time where you have to choose between happiness and righteousness (and they aren’t always the same thing) then we are to choose righteousness. I notice that many Atheist give the false dilemma of either: Be an Atheist in this life and have fun, or be a Christian in this life an be miserable. You can be Christian in this life and still make every moment and relationship count. In fact, I think that this is God’s will. I can’t imagine that God wants us waste even a moment of time. But again, since our choices have actual, real consequences, that doesn’t mean that we should choose whatever happens to make us happy at any given moment.

As C.S. Lewis said (somewhere), this world is a forge of souls. What you do in this life has eternal consequences - it is to be taken very seriously. But, Lewis writes in the Weight of Glory that:
“This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn. We must play. But our merriment must be of that kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously.”
 
God created us so that in our earthly lives we could know Him, love Him, and serve Him. In this way, we will be ready to spend eternity with Him in Heaven.

May God bless you and keep you in the Light of His Truth! 🙂
 
Grace & Peace!

Take heart, Wonder! Here’s the secret: the distinction between the next world and this world is a metaphorical/linguistic one. This world is shot through with the next, as Gerard Manley Hopkins reminds us:

The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
It will flame out like shining from shook foil.

The difficulty is this: we are not available to the Next World in the same way that the Next World is always, relentlessly and gratuitously available to us. Think of the Eucharist: if we could truly see it as it really and truly is, and in the same way the Eucharist sees us as we are (and it does and it does and it always always does), we’d be gobsmacked, humbled, ashamed, enraptured and quickened in a heartbeat. The reality of the Eucharist is also the mystery of the whole world: it’s not a “this world” and a “that world” in opposition to each other or contrasted with each other, but the reality of grace that informs and enlivens all that is, that burns brightly at the heart of everything.

That’s not to say that sin doesn’t have consequences. It does. Bad stuff happens. But the chief consequence of sin is that it removes us from a right apprehension of the nature of the Real–it undoes us, it obscures our vision, it deforms our perceptions. We come to think that the deformity is what’s real–it’s all we see, it must be real. But it’s the grandeur of God that is the Reality. The grandeur and the grace that is nearer to us than our own blood, that is the Breath of our breath, that is the superabundant Light by which we see and that longs to heal our seeing.

Nihilism can be attractive, but its uses are limited. Don’t get trapped in an empty despair that is little more than a thwarted hope because, in the words of Eliot, you had “hope[d] for the wrong thing.” Actually, Eliot’s words in “East Coker” (from Four Quartets) are germane here:

I said to my soul, be still and wait without hope
For hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love
For love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith
But the faith and love and the hope are all in the waiting.
Wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought:
So the darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing. (EC, III, 23-28)

This is the way of Christian apophatic theology. This is St. John of the Cross’ Ascent of Mount Carmel (Eliot riffs off St. John in “East Coker,” too). This is the Pseudo-Denys’ Mystical Theology, this is the end of St. Bonaventure’s Itinerarium Mentis in Deum, this is Meister Eckhart’s practice of detachment (St. John’s, too: “In this detachment the spiritual soul finds its quiet and repose; for, since it covets nothing, nothing wearies it when it is lifted up, and nothing oppresses it when it is cast down, because it is in the centre of its humility; but when it covets anything, at that very moment it becomes wearied” [Ascent of Mount Carmel, Book 1, Ch. XIII]).

The world is indeed passing away, and it is passing away in two different manners: 1) the world of human culture and death-centeredness is passing away, revealed as little more than smoke and shadow in the gentle light of the Resurrection of Christ; 2) the created world is passing into its eschatological fulfillment. Both of these things are good news! So what to do? Hold lightly to what is passing away. Cling firmly to the grace by which all things are. The Next World is here in this one, the Next World is the Reality of this one. The two are not in conflict. Heaven and Earth have been reconciled in the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, by whom we were made, for whom we were made, and to whom be glory unto the ages of ages.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
👍
 
God created us so that in our earthly lives we could know Him, love Him, and serve Him. In this way, we will be ready to spend eternity with Him in Heaven.

May God bless you and keep you in the Light of His Truth! 🙂
I know all that.

I’m asking about life’s enjoyable peripherals in the light of the sins of the world. Why care about this fun new restaurant opening up if people are thinking some catastrophic disaster will happen by the end of next year or the second coming will happen on the 100th anniversary of the Fatima apparitions?
 
We live as human beings in order to learn to be eternal beings.

IMNAAHO

ICXC NIKA
 
If we are meant for the Next Life, why care about anything in this one? There’s so much bad stuff happening and so many people worried about bad stuff that might happen soon (look at the World News and End Times Speculation threads) that it just makes every aspect of this life seem pointless and that a nihilistic approach would be more appropriate

Also, this opening post would be MUCH longer but everything I typed sounded like a cry for help.
I feel as you do sometimes brother. I highly recommend that someone like you read the Book of Ecclesiastes. It starts off speaking about the vanity of earthly life, but in the end tells us that earthly riches and pleasures are gifts from God that should be enjoyed, but should not be constantly sought and be made the purpose of ones life (since that, in the end, they’re practically meaningless), and most of all, it tells us to keep the commandments of God for this is man’s all.
You must remember that God is the beginning and end, our meaning and our purpose, being and reality in its ultimate form. So, the life that is cut off from the eternal is utterly meaningless, because, without God, who is the meaning of our existence, we have no purpose or end and death is the only option (since that God is the fullness of life, and death & non existence is his opposite; nothingness is ultimately opposed to God). God is love, so love is the only way we find our fulfillment in ourselves and in one another.
 
We had a beginning and we have no end. God made us for Himself and He is infinite goodness.

We enjoy the good things He gives us, without being selfish, and thank Him.

At six years old I learned in the Catechism:

Question: Why did God make me?

Answer: God made me to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.

And we do that according to what the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity taught us when He became Man and was born, lived, died, and rose for us.

The joys and good things of this world are just a shadow of what He wants to give us in the next.

Enjoy the new restaurant in town, remembering that all good things come from Him,

He has an everlasting banquet of love prepared for us…follow Him!

Mary, Seat of Wisdom,…Pray for us!
 
We had a beginning and we have no end. God made us for Himself and He is infinite goodness.

We enjoy the good things He gives us, without being selfish, and thank Him.

At six years old I learned in the Catechism:

Question: Why did God make me?

Answer: God made me to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.

And we do that according to what the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity taught us when He became Man and was born, lived, died, and rose for us.

The joys and good things of this world are just a shadow of what He wants to give us in the next.

Enjoy the new restaurant in town, remembering that all good things come from Him,

He has an everlasting banquet of love prepared for us…follow Him!

Mary, Seat of Wisdom,…Pray for us!
Pretty much this. Our “eternal life in heaven” starts at baptism rather than physical death. As the C.S. Lewis quote stated, this life is a forging process.

Good luck.
 
If we are meant for the Next Life, why care about anything in this one? There’s so much bad stuff happening and so many people worried about bad stuff that might happen soon (look at the World News and End Times Speculation threads) that it just makes every aspect of this life seem pointless and that a nihilistic approach would be more appropriate

Also, this opening post would be MUCH longer but everything I typed sounded like a cry for help.
In this life we prepare for the next. In this life we learn to love Him and each other.
In this life we help each other to prepare.
In this life, though there is much pain, there is also much joy.
To prepare for the next life, do all the good you can in this one.:knight1: The reward is very great. :harp:
 
O Jesus, Thou hast set me apart from the world; what, then, shall I seek therein? Thou hast created me for Heaven; what, then, have I to do with the world? Depart from me, deceitful world, with thy vanities! Henceforth I will follow the Way of the Cross traced out for me by my Redeemer, and journey onward to my heavenly home, there to dwell forever and ever.
-St Francis of Assisi
 
O Jesus, Thou hast set me apart from the world; what, then, shall I seek therein? Thou hast created me for Heaven; what, then, have I to do with the world? Depart from me, deceitful world, with thy vanities! Henceforth I will follow the Way of the Cross traced out for me by my Redeemer, and journey onward to my heavenly home, there to dwell forever and ever.
-St Francis of Assisi
Isn’t it the case, however, that the Way of the Cross in imitation of Jesus includes sheltering and clothing the poor, feeding the hungry, tending to the ill, and providing solace and comfort to the bereft? And didn’t Francis pay particular attention to the physical needs of the poor, as well as show exceptional kindness to animals and care for the environment? This doesn’t seem to me an instance of renouncing the world in its entirety and focusing only on heaven.
 
Isn’t it the case, however, that the Way of the Cross in imitation of Jesus includes sheltering and clothing the poor, feeding the hungry, tending to the ill, and providing solace and comfort to the bereft? And didn’t Francis pay particular attention to the physical needs of the poor, as well as show exceptional kindness to animals and care for the environment? This doesn’t seem to me an instance of renouncing the world in its entirety and focusing only on heaven.
To me it sets the tone on how I ought not take too much pleasure in worldly things and instead feel a warm inner glow at the thoughts of the Hereafter.

A prayer from the Holy Rosary:
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee to we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.

V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God. R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Alms giving is always a high virtue in Christianity.
 
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