What's the point of being a JW?

[Nekic]

One of the biggest problems in understanding the JWs is if you are not one of the elect, what is the point in being a JW in the first place? Those who are not of the 144,000 told of in the revelations are going to be destroyed anyway, there’s no point in worshiping a misrepresentation of god - it will get you nowhere.

can anyone explain the point of being a JW if you are not one of the elect?

 

[Evanescence]

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in a Paradise earth.

If you are not one of the 144,000 then you live on a paradise earth.
If you are not part of their organisation you die at Armageddon

So thats probebly the reason, they also believe that onc your a jw you are in “the truth”

Evanescence

 

[Evanescence]

Trust ne everytime you bump into a jehovah’s Witness they will go on and on about paradise earth and Armageddon, I spoke to one, he wouldn’t get off the subject lol!

Evanescence

 

[jjwilkman]

ok, 144,000 jw make it to heaven. i think there much more than 144K jw. thus heaven is already filled, all the places are taken… the rest are left out. hmmm. unless you get to bump somebody.

 

[Evanescence]

I dunno, the Jehovah’s Witnesses seem very happy about Paradise earth

They have Magazines with very nice pictures of a garden.
…Living life in paradise…

“there is so much war, we turn on the news and see so much terror, well do you know that one day jehovah is going to make this world a paradise? we will be able to walk the streets at night without feeling unsafe, and do you know that lions will eat straws instead of humans?
We would be able to have a pet tiger and live together forever”

This is their hope, a world like a dream, if you are not a Jehovah’s Witness you will die at armageddon.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to serve Jehovah and wait patiently for Armageddon to arive.

for now they will share the good news and invite us to be in “the truth”

Evanescence

 

[carol_marie]

Evanescense is correct - the 144,000 spots in heaven were filled in back in 1925. There are some of the elect who “fell away” from the Organization after than time, opening up a small number of available spots - but in general, all Jehovah’s Witnesses born after 1925 have never expected to go to heaven. They believe that if they die before the Battle of Armegeddon, they will remian dead in the grave (spirit going nowhere) until after Armegeddon - when Jehovah will raise them up to live on the Paradise Earth (very much like the original garden of Eden.) Actually they believe that everyone who dies before Armegeddon will be raised from the dead and given a chance to become a Jehovah’s Witness and live in the Paradisde on Earth. Waiting until after you die though is a gamble because if Armegeddon comes TODAY you are tough out of luck. Those who are alive when Armegeddon comes don’t get the second chance and only JW’s will survive the Battle. They believe that the rest of us will die and the birds will eat our flesh. (can’t have a Paradise with rotting bodies all over.) Once we are dead - we are dead. JW’s do not believe in hell.

 

[juno24]

carol marie:

Evanescense is correct - the 144,000 spots in heaven were filled in back in 1925. There are some of the elect who “fell away” from the Organization after than time, opening up a small number of available spots - but in general, all Jehovah’s Witnesses born after 1925 have never expected to go to heaven. They believe that if they die before the Battle of Armegeddon, they will remian dead in the grave (spirit going nowhere) until after Armegeddon - when Jehovah will raise them up to live on the Paradise Earth (very much like the original garden of Eden.) Actually they believe that everyone who dies before Armegeddon will be raised from the dead and given a chance to become a Jehovah’s Witness and live in the Paradisde on Earth. Waiting until after you die though is a gamble because if Armegeddon comes TODAY you are tough out of luck. Those who are alive when Armegeddon comes don’t get the second chance and only JW’s will survive the Battle. They believe that the rest of us will die and the birds will eat our flesh. (can’t have a Paradise with rotting bodies all over.) Once we are dead - we are dead. JW’s do not believe in hell.

Carol Marie, this scenario strikes me as a terribly sad situation! Today’s witnesses have absolutely no hope of the beatific vision, if what you say they believe is so.
Paradise Earth sounds like Hell to me-- knowing that there is a Heaven, and that God Almighty and a select few others are there for eternity, but I am still here on Earth with no hope of ever reaching that bliss that is Eternity spent in the presence of the Creator.
Or is it that at the time Paradise Earth comes into being, they will be unaware that they are missing out on true bliss?
Or is it that they think God will deign to come to Earth from time to time to visit them? Even if that’s the case, I would think that being in the Lord’s presence for such a short time would only serve to create a greater longing to be in His presence for all of Eternity. I don’t mean to sound confusing, although I am confused about how eternity not spent in the presence of God could be anything other than Hell.

 

[carol_marie]

juno24:

Carol Marie, this scenario strikes me as a terribly sad situation! Today’s witnesses have absolutely no hope of the beatific vision, if what you say they believe is so.
Paradise Earth sounds like Hell to me-- knowing that there is a Heaven, and that God Almighty and a select few others are there for eternity, but I am still here on Earth with no hope of ever reaching that bliss that is Eternity spent in the presence of the Creator.
Or is it that at the time Paradise Earth comes into being, they will be unaware that they are missing out on true bliss?
Or is it that they think God will deign to come to Earth from time to time to visit them? Even if that’s the case, I would think that being in the Lord’s presence for such a short time would only serve to create a greater longing to be in His presence for all of Eternity. I don’t mean to sound confusing, although I am confused about how eternity not spent in the presence of God could be anything other than Hell.

Hi Judy,
When I was a witness I never gave heaven or spending time with Jehovah God a second thought. It just wasn’t an option for me. Besides, Jehovah was someone I feared - not someone I particularly loved so I wouldn’t have been too keen being all that close to him anyhow. But I agree - now that I know our Lord so much more than I ever did - and my love for Him is so great, I can’t imagine not being with Him someday. Another intesresting thing… JW’s believe that the 144,000 will RULE over them. They will submit to the authority of the “heavenly class.” That’s nothing new though… JW’s are so used to being told what to do by the Society - it would be difficult to imagine it any other way.

 

[juno24]

carol marie:

Hi Judy,
When I was a witness I never gave heaven or spending time with Jehovah God a second thought. It just wasn’t an option for me. Besides, Jehovah was someone I feared - not someone I particularly loved so I wouldn’t have been too keen being all that close to him anyhow. But I agree - now that I know our Lord so much more than I ever did - and my love for Him is so great, I can’t imagine not being with Him someday. Another intesresting thing… JW’s believe that the 144,000 will RULE over them. They will submit to the authority of the “heavenly class.” That’s nothing new though… JW’s are so used to being told what to do by the Society - it would be difficult to imagine it any other way.

Thanks, Carol Marie. I guess I have never thought of God as being one to be so feared that I would actually want to be away from His presence. Wow. How sad I feel for current witnesses who feel this way. I will continue to pray for their enlightenment and conversion (especially for my co-worker who is completely hoodwinked by the WTS).

 

[cristian84]

Also the JW’s don’t believe necessarily that 144,000 spots have been take they hold once a year something similar to a Communion service called a Memorial and only one of the 144,000 can actually receive the communal bread and usually there is only one in the group, This was explained to me by a JW friend of mine. However only they know who the people who will make up 144,000 are. And in Reference to why become a JW there is really no logical point to it because if your not one of the 144,000 and your not on paradise earth then you will simply cease to exist after Armageddon, because they hold to the belief that there is no hell the real punishment is ceasing to exit and being apart from God. So I guess if I am not a JW then the worst that can happen to me is poof I’m gone.

 

[b_justb]

My parents are deeply embedded with the JW’s. My dad has been an elder for almost 30 years and both of them have retired and are full time pioneers. With my conversion to Catholicism we have had many a knock down drag out. I think for them, they were convinced that the teachings of the JW’s are “The Truth.” My dad has spoken about seeing hypocrisy within the Catholic Church (both of my parents were born into Catholic homes, but unfortunately not devote or even sporadic). Since the JW’s align themselves in the school of thought that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon spoken of in Revelation; it is most difficult to shed light into that particular darkness. I have come to realize that it isn’t my job to convert or convict, but it’s the job of the Holy Spirit.

I think most JW’s are JW’s because they are convinced it is Truth.

-B.

 

[flameburns623]

NOT being one of the 144,000, NOR one of the “Great Flock” who will spend eternity in Paradise on Earth would not be a pleasant future. Those who will be annhilated WILL suffer and undergo great terror and remorse for their sins before their destruction. The fact that Jehovah-s Witness’ Hell is shorter than the traditional one does not make it less Hellish.

Since I was never a Jehovah’s Witness perhaps someone who is one or who once was can correct me but–I believe that those on Paradise will have communion with Jesus Christ will they not? Also, Jehovah-God will be in special communion with those on Earth in the same way that He communed with Adam before the Fall, I believe. For all intents and purposes, Paradise Earth will resemble most of what mainstream Christians view as Heaven, I think, but with the 144,000 reigning as co-heirs with Christ over the rest of us.

BTW–I believe the 144,000 are the only one whose spirits have survived death and who are in Heaven RIGHT NOW–not true? The rest of us, upon death, will ‘sleep in the Earth’ until the Resurrection.

 

[jschwehm]

Good questions, Flame:

“Since I was never a Jehovah’s Witness perhaps someone who is one or who once was can correct me but–I believe that those on Paradise will have communion with Jesus Christ will they not? Also, Jehovah-God will be in special communion with those on Earth in the same way that He communed with Adam before the Fall, I believe.”

The answer to the above is no. The JWs who believe that they will live forever in paradise on earth have no hope of seeing the Lord face to face. In fact, my JW mother once admitted to me that the hardest thing she ever had to give up to become a JW was the hope of seeing the Lord face to face.

“For all intents and purposes, Paradise Earth will resemble most of what mainstream Christians view as Heaven, I think, but with the 144,000 reigning as co-heirs with Christ over the rest of us.”

Nope, the JWs hope of the Paradise earth is much different from what Christains believe about heaven and about what the new heavens and new earth will be like. For JWs, living in paradise will not be that much different than what they have now except that it would be without sickness. (It is interesting to note that even in the JWs’ paradise death will still exist because according to them some people will still decide to be disobedient and God will have to kill them.) In any case, this understanding of somehow physically communing with the Lord is foreign to the JWs.

“I believe the 144,000 are the only one whose spirits have survived death and who are in Heaven RIGHT NOW–not true? The rest of us, upon death, will ‘sleep in the Earth’ until the Resurrection.”

That is correct. The JWs believe that in the year 1919, Jesus brought all of those who were of the 144,000 that had died up to that point to heaven and that those who are of the 144,000 who die since the year 1919 are immediately brought to heaven. This means that prior to 1919, the JWs believe that no Saint was in heaven.

I hope that helps,

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com

 

[At_His_Feet]

Those who will be annhilated WILL suffer and undergo great terror and remorse for their sins before their destruction. The fact that Jehovah-s Witness’ Hell is shorter than the traditional one does not make it less Hellish.

Yes, that is how JWs attempt to explain away Bible statements regarding conscious suffering in the afterlife (for example in Matthew 25:30 And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. and elsewhere.)

I believe that those on Paradise will have communion with Jesus Christ will they not? Also, Jehovah-God will be in special communion with those on Earth in the same way that He communed with Adam before the Fall, I believe.

**Depends on what you think “communion” is. To talk, audibly, directly with God like Adam did ? No. To see Him? No. To talk audibly, directly with Jesus? No.To see Him? No. And the 144,000 will still have a supervisory role over it all. Look at the artists renditions of Paradise in their literature - the bushels of vegetables, the earthly activities, the clothes, the tools, the buildings, the animals; they really mean it to be that way. Mary Kochan has an interesting response to the JW version of Paradise here: catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=16539

Someone has just done an excellent response to the JW version of Paradise (New Earth) here as a response to their new book released this summer. Scroll down and look at chapter 3 (but the rest of the chapters that he has completed so far are very worthwhile also) :
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteach.html

(and not to be picky Flameburn JWs celebrate the Lord’s Meal on Nisan 14 - not Nisan 25)

 

[jbjwstar]

Evanescence:

This is their hope, a world like a dream, if you are not a Jehovah’s Witness you will die at armageddon.

Evanescence

Actually, only God can decide that. Not a human, no matter what religion. It’s what’s in your heart and how you feel about God that will determine your fate in Armageddon.

 

[Yerusalyim]

I think most JW’s are JW’s because they are convinced it is Truth

I think MANY stay because they can’t bear the thought of the Shunning they would receive for converting…or even just leaving.