What's the problem with Freemasonry?

[CutlerB]

I would disagree, in a sense. The fact that you do not believe that the directives of the Bishop of Rome apply to you does not alter or diminish in any way the validity of his directive - or, in this case, of the conclusion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith endorsed by the Pope.

The Catholic Church has excellent reasons for excommunicating freemasons latae sententiae. While many of our brothers in Christ may not have such medicinal penalties for their benefit, they should still find out as much as possible why the Catholic Church teaches a certain teaching.

Well, the CofE does not believe the Pope’s pronouncements apply to them. However, I do care a lot about what the Pope and the Church say. After all, I want to become Catholic, so I should care!

 

[1AugustSon7]

I work in the neighbourhood of the main church of Hamburg, St Michael’s Church (Lutheran) in Germany. Just a few days ago, they hosted the first Masonic ritual in a church ever (at least in Germany). I found some photographs of it on the Internet here. (The site itself is an SSPX site, but that does nothing to the topic at hand.)

Now, I asked my parish priest about this, and he said something like “Well, yes, didn’t you know? We have some Masons in our congregation too!” Now, I feel peculiar about the Masons. I don’t know why, it is really confusing: One part of me is interested in them from what I know about it (which is not much), but the other part is strictly against it. After all, there’s all sorts of conspiracy theories around involving them.

What is the problem with Masonry exactly?

Freemasonry was a ressurection of interest into the mystery societies of pagan antiquity, which followed (not surprisingly) upon the Renaissance and increased general interest in the classical period.

The Church thoroughly exposed and embarassed these mystery societies in their day, most of which were a combination of strange and exotic Eastern religious rites combined with Greek philosophical errors. Owing to their elitist, clanish and esoteric nature, she succesfully convinced the authorities to suppress them in antiquity. She attempted to do the same at the beginnings of Freemasonry, especially when it became tremendously popular among the nobility of France and other important countries.

A serious and detailed study of Masonry with Catholic eyes will result in a more temperate appreciation of its novelty, secrecy and the fascination these things can inspire. Masonry is not all it pretends to be, and certainly not as wise or enlightened as it feigns - at least, certainly, not in contrast to Roman Catholicism - though I can see why a lot of Protestant cultures and traditions became enamoured with it: it offers something Protestantism, as such, does not have: a deep sense of mystery and (religious) rites that are supposed to be inundated with rich symbolism and meaning, which only the enlightened one can access and understand.

 

[jim1130]

I’m a Mason, and there’s two forms of masonry:

American/British masonry: Funny old men who make silly handshakes and have a ritual that you can see (most libraries have the Masonic ritual). We also become shriners and put on silly hats, play golf, drink a little, and do good works. We have governance and oversight.

European Continental Masonry: Secretive quasi-independant societies who are hostile to authority and to churches.

As an aside, the oath that I took as a Mason to “frequent a house of worship” helped turn me into an agnostic into a Christian. I’ll also point out that no Catholic needs to be a Mason: The Knights of Columbus mirrors the good attributes of Freemasonry.

How many Masons were Founding Fathers? I know Charles Carroll was the only Catholic who signed the Declaration of Independence.

Were any of the Founding Fathers who were Masons responsible for any of the anti-Catholic laws governing the new colonies, such as Catholics could not be land owners, Catholics could not hold public office, Catholic schools were prohibited in the colonies (the reason Charles Carroll had his children educated at parochial schools in France), etc.?

 

[benjohnson]

How many Masons were Founding Fathers? I know Charles Carroll was the only Catholic who signed the Declaration of Independence.

Were any of the Founding Fathers who were Masons responsible for any of the anti-Catholic laws governing the new colonies, such as Catholics could not be land owners, Catholics could not hold public office, Catholic schools were prohibited in the colonies (the reason Charles Carroll had his children educated at parochial schools in France), etc.?

Indeed, a good majority of the founding fathers were Masons, the language used most of the founding documents of the Republic are heavily infused with typical Masonic words and ideas.

Masonic historians trace the existence of the order to the remants of the Knights Templars who were destroyed by one of the Avignion popes at the behest of the French king to fill his coffers, so there are certainly going to be a rivalery there.

That said, as I understand it, the anti-Catholic laws of our nation were more a reaction to the then recent Huguenot massacres and lingering Protestant/Anglican dstrust than anything else. Thankfully such times are behind us.

 

[benjohnson]

Freemasonry was a ressurection of interest into the mystery societies of pagan antiquity, which followed (not surprisingly) upon the Renaissance and increased general interest in the classical period.

The Church thoroughly exposed and embarassed these mystery societies in their day, most of which were a combination of strange and exotic Eastern religious rites combined with Greek philosophical errors. Owing to their elitist, clanish and esoteric nature, she succesfully convinced the authorities to suppress them in antiquity. She attempted to do the same at the beginnings of Freemasonry, especially when it became tremendously popular among the nobility of France and other important countries.

A serious and detailed study of Masonry with Catholic eyes will result in a more temperate appreciation of its novelty, secrecy and the fascination these things can inspire. Masonry is not all it pretends to be, and certainly not as wise or enlightened as it feigns - at least, certainly, not in contrast to Roman Catholicism - though I can see why a lot of Protestant cultures and traditions became enamoured with it: it offers something Protestantism, as such, does not have: a deep sense of mystery and (religious) rites that are supposed to be inundated with rich symbolism and meaning, which only the enlightened one can access and understand.

This is a fair critique - no modern Mason (hopefully) thinks that he will get anything out the Masonic rituals other than friendship, entertainment, and a bit of moral development. Personally, I have never met a Mason who took the rituals for anything other than they are - silly overwrought baroque plays centered on universaly good values.

I will however fully acknowlage that this wasn’t always the case and that most of the European contenental lodges engage in very troubling things.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

There is so much mis-(and dis-)information here about Freemasonry that it makes me think twice about fully believing other information presented on this site.

There is no central planning behind Freemasonry. In the US, there is a “grand lodge” in each state which exerts a measure of control over the local lodges within the particular state, but each “grand lodge” is completely independent of each other. There is no “national lodge” to exert any level of control or central planning to the state “grand lodges”. Likewise, there is no global Freemasonry entity. With no central planning, those “local lodges” is really all there is…where your God-fearing friends and neighbors meet. And no, they don’t meet to plan their global conquests of the world, they usually argue about what they are going to serve for the next dinner, and what charity to give their money to.

Timothy H: Your argument about who has the “ability” to administer oaths is contradictory. You say only the Catholic church has the ability, but then you reference the government which has you swear to God (or on bible) that you are telling the truth. But bottom line, I’m not sure how this justifies hatred against Freemasonry.

AdDeum: I think the situation you describe occurs frequently between Protestants and Catholics. Since becoming Catholic I have defended Catholicism to many, many of my Protestant friends. Unfortunately many Protestants are raised to believe that Catholicism is a cult, does not “properly” worship God, is controlled by a central being that is antagonistic to God and country, etc. Wait…that sounds like how many Catholics were raised to believe about Freemasonry! Hmmm…isn’t that an interesting parallel…

Briarpatch: When the Freemason lodge is open for business, only lodge business can be discussed. This means NO POLITICS OR RELIGION IS DISCUSSED. However, lodge ceremonies do have things like “The Pledge of Allegience”, and ALL LODGE CEREMONIES are centered around the belief in a “Supreme Being” (aka: God).

Nords: Freemasonry has nothing to do with Gnosticism beyond simple use of logic, reasoning, and intuition. There is no Freemasonry belief that you become “holy” through reasoning or intuition (which is what Gnosticism is).

And regarding the “Cutsey handshake”…yeah, there are “secret” rituals (which you can very easily find the secrets to from any number of Freemason-hating websites, along with a bunch of absolutely crazy stuff). But I believe there are some “secret” rituals used in the Knights of Columbus, right? forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=86639

Regarding Albert Pike: Yes, a disturbing character. Unfortunately he thought he was a great author so wrote a LOT. Even more unfortunately, he wrote a LOT of CRAZY stuff, a little bit of which can be taken out of context and made to look like he was advocating worshipping Satan. If you read the context of his “lucifer” quote you will see that he was using the “term” lucifer (ie: light-bringer) instead of the “name” lucifer.

AugustSon: You are absolutely right throughout your post.

Jim1130: The vast majority of our nation’s founding fathers were Freemasons. The ideology of Freemason (equality of men) is at it’s heart the foundation of our National ideology. The reasons they passed anti-catholic laws was due to the protestant nature of our early nation. You gotta remember, the new US came (mostly) from protestant countries, while Spain/France (our antagonists in the western hemisphere) were Catholic.

The bottom line here is this: Freemasonry is NOT anti-Catholic. But apparently Catholicism is anti-Freemasonry.

 

[Elizium23]

Yes, yes, we’ve heard the tireless efforts of the Mason apologists try to tell us that there’s no conspiracy and there’s no plotting against the Church. What do you say to incidents such as this: Plutarco Elías Calles receives a medal from the Scottish Rite for his anti-Catholic activities?

 

[TimothyH]

Timothy H: Your argument about who has the “ability” to administer oaths is contradictory. You say only the Catholic church has the ability, but then you reference the government which has you swear to God (or on bible) that you are telling the truth. But bottom line, I’m not sure how this justifies hatred against Freemasonry.

There are two things that never happened - I never said ability, nor did I say that I hate freemasonry. Those two things didnt happen.

I never said “Ability”. I said “Authority.”

The Catholic Church has authority to administer oaths on matters of faith and morals on God’s behalf. The civil government has the authority to administer oaths on matters of civil and criminal justice on behalf of the state. Both swear by the name of God but the oaths pertain to different things. Matters of faith and morals have been delegated by God to the Holy Catholic Church. Matters of criminal and civil justice rightly belong to the state. They could swear on the name of the old lady who lives down the street, but the matter of authority still stands. Freemasonry has not been granted authority by God in the area of faith and morals. Faith and morals is the domain of the Holy Catholic Church, not freemasonry.

I also never said that I hated freemasonry.

My father was three time grand master of his lodge. Many of his brother masons were my friends. Over a hundred of them showed up at his funeral and carried his casket to the grave. The Empire State Masons give one million dollars per day to charity, run the burn centers and the hospitals. They do much good. Freemasons helped me pay for my own daughters casket and gravestone, and many came to her funeral Mass and to the Catholic cemetery when she was buried. I have doctrinal and moral disagreements with the beliefs and practices of freemasonry and believe that freemasonry is inconsistent with Christian discipleship, but I don’t hate freemasonry nor freemasons themselves.

Two things I never said - ability and that I hate freemasonry.

-Tim-

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Timothy H: Thank you for clarifying. You bring up an interesting point about the Catholic church being the only entity with the authority to administer oaths on God’s behalf. However I am not sure if I would classify any masonic oaths as “being on God’s behalf.” From my perspective, all oaths that were taken were oaths as a man, and oaths to a supreme being (aka: God for me). I don’t think there is any prohibition in making an oath to yourself, or TO God.

Also, about hating freemasons. I didn’t specifically say “you” hated freemasons, but reading some mis-informed postings here certainly leave the impression that some people take the extreme position of “hating” freemasons…which is why they have to demonize an organization made up of mostly very good men and does a lot of great things in our world.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Elizium: I have little knowledge of Calles, and what little knowledge I have is from the movie Christeros (powerful movie, but hardly an academic source of info). Your Wiki-link states Calles was a mason and got a masonic medal for his anti-Catholic activities. Wiki’s reference for this is a website called StoriaLibera, a Catholic (??) website. Your Wiki-link also states Calles was a devout athiest, which is antithetical to freemasonry…you HAVE to believe in a “supreme being” (aka: God) to be a mason.

But, despite the given Catholic anti-masonic bias here, let’s assume that Calles was a mason. That is no surprise. Calles was a politician, and worse, he was an athiest politician. I am sure he would have no qualms going into a lodge and swearing an oath to a “supreme being”, considering he didn’t believe one existed, in order to gain additional political power. So let’s assume he was a mason…so what? There have been lots of masons who have not lived up to their oath, just like there have been lots of Catholic priests who have done terrible things. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic church is the greatest force for good (God!) on the planet, and that the freemason is also a force for good (God!).

About the medal - the wiki-reference (StoriaLibera), says: "On May 28 (1926), Calles received the Masonic medal of merit from the hands of the Great Commander of the Scottish rite in Mexico. On July 12, the following communique appeared in the press: “International Masonry accepts responsibility for everything that is happening in Mexico, and is preparing to mobilize all its forces for the methodic, integral application of the agreed upon program for this country.” "

The Calles regime was a near dictatorship. He couldn’t be that powerful without controlling the message, which means had to control the media to push his message. That gives me a big pause in believing media stories at the time. I would suggest that it is most likely that Calles was using the “freemason brand name”.

But, again, let’s say it is true that the freemasons were “with” Calles. Again, so what. Yes, that would be a shameful incident in freemason history, but such shameful incidents pale in comparison with the overall good that the organization does. Again, much like the Catholic Church which has had a couple of shameful incidents as well.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I’m doing a bit more reading on this topic and have a question for folks on this board.

This link (storialibera.it/epoca_contemporanea/messico_1926-1929/articolo.php?id=508) is the source document for the wiki-link posted above regarding Calle’s anti-catholic movement and Cristero rebellion. It is an moving story, and appears to be what the recent Cristero movie is based upon.

Toward the bottom of this paper it says this. “The new president, the Masonic lawyer Fortes Gil, rejoiced. At the summer solstice banquet, he acknowledged his astonishment at the unconditional capitulation of a victorious army, and his intention to continue the fight: “The fight did not begin yesterday. The fight is eternal. The fight began 20 centuries ago.” Indeed, but the novelty was that the Vatican was not on the right side. Freemasonry, condemned by all the popes from the 18th century (Clement XII, in 1738) to the end of the 19th (in 1892, Leo XIII equated Freemasonry with Satanism), had infiltrated the Church at the highest levels of the hierarchy: Were not G. della Chiesa (the future Benedict XV) and A. Ratti (the future Pius XI) the “proteges” of Cardinal Rampolla? In 1926, was it not Pius XI who condemned Action Frangaise in accordance with the sect’s desires. In 1928, was not Fr. Vallet expelled from Spain and his work suppressed by a hierarchy that preferred to favor the Opus Dei.”

Can anyone fill me in on why the author thinks it is significant that Pope Benedict XV and Pius XI were proteges of Cardinal Rampolla? Or the significance of Action Frangaise, or Fr. Vallet??

Thanks

 

[benjohnson]

Yes, yes, we’ve heard the tireless efforts of the Mason apologists try to tell us that there’s no conspiracy and there’s no plotting against the Church. What do you say to incidents such as this: Plutarco Elías Calles receives a medal from the Scottish Rite for his anti-Catholic activities?

What can we say other than “this is horrible!” As a Mason, this would never happen in my lodge while I’m a member.

As a student of history, I’ll point out that all large organizations do horrid things from time to time.

 

[TimothyH]

Timothy H: Thank you for clarifying. You bring up an interesting point about the Catholic church being the only entity with the authority to administer oaths on God’s behalf. However I am not sure if I would classify any masonic oaths as “being on God’s behalf.” From my perspective, all oaths that were taken were oaths as a man, and oaths to a supreme being (aka: God for me). I don’t think there is any prohibition in making an oath to yourself, or TO God.

Also, about hating freemasons. I didn’t specifically say “you” hated freemasons, but reading some mis-informed postings here certainly leave the impression that some people take the extreme position of “hating” freemasons…which is why they have to demonize an organization made up of mostly very good men and does a lot of great things in our world.

Rereading, I see that you did not say that “I” hated freemasonry. Language is such a barrier.

Good men, yes, but freemasonry leads its members into grave error. Christ said that that the only way to the Father is through him. Universalist belief systems, the idea of the “Grand Architect of the Universe” is not consistent with the words of Christ. This theological mistake opens the door for those who believe in it to move freely between different religious belief system as if they are all of equal value. God demanded from the Israelites a radical choice. Christ demands a radical choice. Tolerance of other religions is one thing, but equating all religions is consistent with God’s demand to follow him and no other. I fear that for some, it is a fatal mistake.

For a baptized and practicing Catholic, freemasonry is not an option. At the end of the day, the Church forbids it, and that is the end of the story. Again a radical choice has to be made. One either believes the Church to be God’s authority, the mouthpiece of Christ on earth, or one does not. One cannot say that they believe the Church to be the mouthpiece of Christ, and then become a Freemason in direct defience of the authority one professes to believe in. Freemasonry and the Nicene Creed stand in opposition to each other. To both swear a masonic oath and recite the Nicene Creed at Mass is hypocrisy. One must choose either. It cannot be both. .

My father always insisted that the Catholic Church was opposed to Freemasonry because of money, that the Church just wanted the money. I never had the chance to have these discussion with my father before he died as I had not yet come to understand what the Church really is, nor come to love the Church as I love God himself. It might have been a blessing that we never discussed these things.

-Tim-

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Tim - great post. While I do not belive everything the Church professes to be true, I do not have to believe to do my best in following. I was raised a Freemason in a lodge right across the street from Lexington Green, Massachusetts, where the “Shot heard round the world” was fired that started the greatest revolution in the world; the revolution of truly free and equal men. It was these Freemason ideals that led to the creation of the greatest nation in the history of the planet.

It saddens me that I had to give up being a Freemason when I became Catholic.

 

[TimothyH]

Tim - great post. While I do not belive everything the Church professes to be true, I do not have to believe to do my best in following. I was raised a Freemason in a lodge right across the street from Lexington Green, Massachusetts, where the “Shot heard round the world” was fired that started the greatest revolution in the world; the revolution of truly free and equal men. It was these Freemason ideals that led to the creation of the greatest nation in the history of the planet.

It saddens me that I had to give up being a Freemason when I became Catholic.

I understand what you are saying. I’ve been to boston and have seen the masonic hall there. The painting of George Washington in his Masonic apron remind me of my dad and I’ve been to The George Washington Masonic National Memorial in Alexandria.

Freemasonry played a big part in the creation of this greatest nation on earth. There is no denying that. But our nation has moved away from many of those virtues and ideals, and there is much we are called to give up.

I give you my respect, and will pray a rosary for you, who have given up much in the name of Christ.

Peace.

-Tim-

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Thank you Tim, in more ways than can should be posted here.

 

[ess1113a]

I would have another conversation with your priest about the parishioners who are Masons. A Catholic who joins the Freemasons incurs an automatic excommunication. If the priest is supportive of membership in that organization, that is deeply troubling, to say the least.

Cardinal DeNardo of Houston issued a policy statement declaring that Freemasonry is not endorsed or acceptable but that a member of Freemasonry is NOT denied the sacraments. I thought it was a wonderful statement.

The document was provided to me by my parish priest to show that I was allowed to receive Holy Communion.

Am I troubled by his statement? Not in the least. I can enjoy the sacraments the same as the doctor that prescribes birth control, the couple that are living together outside of marriage and the member of an extremist organization. Who are all seemingly without conflict as they receive communion. I fully understand what Freemasonry is and what it stands for and despite what I read and hear from subscribers I know factually that there is NOTHING with Freemasonry that interferes with my faith or belief in God. NOTHING at all in any form. No false idols. No mandated heresy. No false beliefs. Just the universality of brotherhood and the right to subscribe to whatever God I believe in without malice.

I am not recruiting, I am merely trying to correct some drastically wrong perceptions that are perpetuated by half truths and rumors. Feel free to believe what you want but use the intelligence and wisdom to formulate these beliefs. Research and read before you promulgate false information.

 

[benjohnson]

Cardinal DeNardo of Houston issued a policy statement declaring that Freemasonry is not endorsed or acceptable but that a member of Freemasonry is NOT denied the sacraments. I thought it was a wonderful statement.

Thats encouraging… We have three members in our lodge that are Catholic (and quite fervent), so I’m happy for them that they can properly receive.

 

[thistle]

Thats encouraging… We have three members in our lodge that are Catholic (and quite fervent), so I’m happy for them that they can properly receive.

Any Catholic who is a Freemason is in a state of mortal sin and if they die unrepentant they go to Hell.

 

[ess1113a]

Thats encouraging… We have three members in our lodge that are Catholic (and quite fervent), so I’m happy for them that they can properly receive.

May not be in my lifetime but I truly believe that the Holy See will eventually recognize that Freemasonry is a beneficient influence on its members. Membership has made me a better father, husband, citizen, and Catholic. I sit in mass every Sunday and see Masons around me and I am comforted with their presence.

Conspiracies? The average age of my lodge is 72 years old. We cant even decide what to have for a meal (lasagna or hamburgers), so I seriously doubt any of the members are plotting the overthrow of anything except the lack of a senior citizens discount at the McDonalds.

I know what I read " you arent at a level where you know the conspiracies" but I have progressed as far as possible and there is still an absence of conspiracy.

My faith is well founded and I am a devout Catholic. The free will that God gave me allows me to live well with the apparent dichotomy. Mortal sin refers to grave matters. Grave matters refers to violations of the 10 Commandments (Cathechism 1858). Freemasonry does not violate the Commandments at all in my view. No false idols etc.

“I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: “O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.” And God granted it.”
–Voltaire