What's the right way?

[Kanda]

I was wondering if this part is supposed to just be said by the priest, or by everybody at the same time

Through Him, with Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit. All glory and power are yours forever and ever, amen. (I may have the words off a little bit - kids are making a ruckus and I can’t think properly, but I’m sure you know what I’m refering to)

At my parish, the entire congregation sings this accompanied by music. I don’t remember doing this when I went to church as a child, but it is done that way now.

Also, since I’m asking stuff… how is the gospel supposed to be presented? Where I attend, the pastoral associate will ask someone to do it before Mass starts. During the alleluia (sp?) that person approaches the alter, bows, gets the gospel, walkes in a little procession holding it above their head, and then meets the priest at the podium (I think there is a certain name for that area). They stand off to the side. After the reading, the priest gives that person back the gospel and they go place it on a holder thing in front of the podium. The priest then bows and/or kisses the gospel. The person who presented it then goes and sits back down. Is this correct procedure?

I’m not trying to nit-pick how things are done, I just want to learn. Thanks.

 

[dylanschrader]

I was wondering if this part is supposed to just be said by the priest, or by everybody at the same time

Through Him, with Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit. All glory and power are yours forever and ever, amen. (I may have the words off a little bit - kids are making a ruckus and I can’t think properly, but I’m sure you know what I’m refering to)

At my parish, the entire congregation sings this accompanied by music. I don’t remember doing this when I went to church as a child, but it is done that way now.

From Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[52.] The proclamation of the Eucharistic Prayer, which by its very nature is the climax of the whole celebration, is proper to the Priest by virtue of his Ordination. It is therefore an abuse to proffer it in such a way that some parts of the Eucharistic Prayer are recited by a Deacon, a lay minister, or by an individual member of the faithful, or by all members of the faithful together. The Eucharistic Prayer, then, is to be recited by the Priest alone in full.

[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”, except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below.

No one but the priest and concelebrating priests should say the doxology at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer.

Also, since I’m asking stuff… how is the gospel supposed to be presented? Where I attend, the pastoral associate will ask someone to do it before Mass starts. During the alleluia (sp?) that person approaches the alter, bows, gets the gospel, walkes in a little procession holding it above their head, and then meets the priest at the podium (I think there is a certain name for that area). They stand off to the side. After the reading, the priest gives that person back the gospel and they go place it on a holder thing in front of the podium. The priest then bows and/or kisses the gospel. The person who presented it then goes and sits back down. Is this correct procedure?

I’m not trying to nit-pick how things are done, I just want to learn. Thanks.

You’re not nit-picking at all. The faithful have a right to an authentic liturgy, celebrated according to the norms set forth by the Catholic Church.

From The General Instruction of the Roman Missal:

If there is no deacon:

1. If the Book of the Gospels is on the altar, the priest then takes it and goes to the ambo, carrying the Book of the Gospels slightly elevated and preceded by the lay ministers, who may carry the thurible and the candles. Those present turn towards the ambo as a sign of special reverence to the Gospel of Christ.

If there is a deacon:

1. If incense is used, the deacon assists the priest when he puts incense in the thurible during the singing of the Alleluia or other chant. Then he makes a profound bow before the priest and asks for the blessing, saying in a low voice, Iube, domine, benedicere (Father, give me your blessing). The priest blesses him, saying, Dominus sit in corde tuo (The Lord be in your heart). The deacon signs himself with the Sign of the Cross and responds, Amen. Having bowed to the altar, he then takes up the Book of the Gospels which was placed upon it. He proceeds to the ambo, carrying the book slightly elevated. He is preceded by a thurifer, carrying a thurible with smoking incense, and by servers with lighted candles. There the deacon, with hands joined, greets the people, saying, Dominus vobiscum (The Lord be with you). Then, at the words Lectio sancti Evangelii (A reading from the holy gospel), he signs the book with his thumb and, afterwards, himself on his forehead, mouth, and breast. He incenses the book and proclaims the Gospel reading. When the reading is concluded, he says the acclamation Verbum Domini (The gospel of the Lord), and all respond, Laus tibi, Christe (Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ). He then venerates the book with a kiss, saying privately, Per evangelica dicta (May the words of the gospel), and returns to the priest’s side.

 

[Kanda]

Thank you very much for the relevant sources in your response.

Now that I know that what is happening is not correct, should I say something? Or is this one of those things where I should just focus on my relationship with Christ and not over analyze what is happening at the mass?

I think the reason they do things this way is because they want everyone to feel involved. If I do bring it up, how to rebut this stance?

Thanks.

 

[dylanschrader]

Thank you very much for the relevant sources in your response.

Now that I know that what is happening is not correct, should I say something? Or is this one of those things where I should just focus on my relationship with Christ and not over analyze what is happening at the mass?

I think the reason they do things this way is because they want everyone to feel involved. If I do bring it up, how to rebut this stance?

Thanks.

It is well within your rights as a Catholic to bring this up to your pastor. Liturgical abuses such as these can harm people spiritually by making it hard for them to participate appropriately at Mass by offering their lives to the Lord; it can make people think participating at Mass means “doing things” in an external way, as if people who do not carry the Book of the Gospels, etc. are not participating as fully.

It is a serious mistake to think that participating in Mass means performing a specific function. The faithful participate in Mass by offering their lives to God, uniting the many sacrifices of their lives with the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Then, strengthened by the Eucharist, they are able to evangelize the world.

I very much recommend reading all of Redemptionis Sacramentum, especially the parts about the faithful’s participation at Mass.

If you feel like reading more, the encyclical Mediator Dei is also good.

 

[Kanda]

It is well within your rights as a Catholic to bring this up to your pastor. Liturgical abuses such as these can harm people spiritually by making it hard for them to participate appropriately at Mass by offering their lives to the Lord; it can make people think participating at Mass means “doing things” in an external way, as if people who do not carry the Book of the Gospels, etc. are not participating as fully.

It is a serious mistake to think that participating in Mass means performing a specific function. The faithful participate in Mass by offering their lives to God, uniting the many sacrifices of their lives with the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Then, strengthened by the Eucharist, they are able to evangelize the world.

I very much recommend reading all of Redemptionis Sacramentum, especially the parts about the faithful’s participation at Mass.

If you feel like reading more, the encyclical Mediator Dei is also good.

Do you know where I can get copies of Redemptionis Sacramentum and the Code of Canon Law? I am interested in a book that I can read comfortably rather than on my computer screen, which I at times find difficult. I’ve looked around, but haven’t had any luck yet.

 

[John_Lilburne]

“151. … At the end of the Eucharistic Prayer, the priest takes the paten with the host and the chalice and elevates them both while alone singing or saying the doxology, Per ipsum (Through him). At the end the people make the acclamation, Amen.”
(From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html .)

The books are available at amazon.com. Search for “Redemptionis Sacramentum” and “Code of Canon Law”.

 

[stignatius]

[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”, except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below.

I have a question about this paticular part. Sometimes, the presiding priest isn’t a very good singer, so the organist plays “Through Him, with Him, in Him” with the priest so he doesn’t go off key or too slow. I suppose this would qualify as an abuse?

Thanks

 

[Kanda]

I have a question about this paticular part. Sometimes, the presiding priest isn’t a very good singer, so the organist plays “Through Him, with Him, in Him” with the priest so he doesn’t go off key or too slow. I suppose this would qualify as an abuse?

Thanks

He doesn’t have to sing it. He can say it. My husband’s great uncle is a priest and at family masses he always just says it. See the post by John Lilburne. It says “singing or saying the doxology.”