What's the story behind Vatican ii?

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Bryan77

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I sometimes hear Vatican ii brought up, and I don’t know what it means. from what little research I can find is that the church went through some changes. However, all of my research leads to saying that Vatican ii was a bad thing, and the church is in heresy now. I am always led to websites that say how the Catholic church has been corrupted by Vatican ii.

So my questions are.

What was Vatican ii?

Why was it needed?

Why do people hate it so much?
 
Should I be scared? I’m just a little freaked out since I’ve been doing a lot of research on the New World Order, Its not just a conspiracy theory. There is so much evidence for it, you have to be ignorant to deny it. The The Vatican itself speaks against it in this official article about the dangers of the New Age Movement… vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

Also, Fr. Malachi Martin an adviser to 3 popes, has spoken out against Satan infiltrating the church, and has warned about the New World Order.

Of course Satan will try to attack the church. Yet, Jesus himself said that “the Gates of Hell will not prevail.”

So I guess my real question is, was Vatican ii the work of infiltrators bent on destroying the church. And if so, how do we protect it?

Please don’t bash me by simply calling me a " crazy conspiracy theorist" I’m seriously concerned. 😦
 
The funny thing about conspiracy theories, there’s a great deal of hypery about some arch-evil that’s obviously there and yet not there, and very little attention about the evil we see all the time.
 
I am pretty sure that the moderators of these Forums forbid this sort of discussion.

If you want to read the conspiracy theory web sites, you are free to do so.

If is your time and if you want to waste it, so go ahead.

Might as well check out the 9-11 conspiracy web sites while you are at it. And don’t forget the UFO/alien invasion conspiracy web sites.

If the Second Vatican Council was an evil thing, as its critics say, then the Catholic Church would be by that proved to not be the One True Church, and it never could have been the One True Church.

If you want to remain Catholic, you must agree with Blessed John Paul II and the current pope, that the Second Vatican Council was a great blessing from God to the Church and the world.

Maybe all those blessings have not come to pass yet, but they will.
 
I’m sorry for the confusion. I’m not saying the church isn’t the one true church. I’m asking for trustworthy information about what Vatican ii was, so I can debunk the lies. I don’t want to read the anti-catholic websites, which is the only information I can find on the matter.

I don’t want this to become a conspiracy thread. I just mentioned the cause for my concern. I’m sorry for even bringing it up. I should have just asked my question, and left it at that. I just want to learn about Vatican ii.

I asked it here in traditional Catholicism, because I thought it would be the best place to ask it. Since from the name of the sub-forum it suggests that a lot of Catholics prefer the old way. And I literally know nothing about it. The only change I’ve seen is the new translation.
 
Bryan77 said:
I’m sorry for the confusion. I’m not saying the church isn’t the one true church. I’m asking for trustworthy information about what Vatican ii was, so I can debunk the lies. I don’t want to read the anti-catholic websites, which is the only information I can find on the matter.

I don’t want this to become a conspiracy thread. I just mentioned the cause for my concern. I’m sorry for even bringing up the NWO. I should have just asked my question, and left it at that. I just want to learn about Vatican ii.

I asked it here in traditional Catholicism, because I thought it would be the best place to ask it.
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Here is a secular brief description that does not involve conspiracy theories:
pope opens vatican II

There are good resources out there, unfortunately, those with an ax to grind or a theory to scare everyone seem to have an amazing ability to get noticed.
You have those on the extreme left that think Vatican II didn’t go far enough and/or the current Popes are trying to return back to earlier times and those on the extreme right that think that changing the mass to the vernacular was heretical. Both of which are just silly (IMHO)

I’d suggest reading the Vatican II documents and deciding for yourself what you think. It’s amazing the number of people that have an opinion on Vatican II that haven’t even read what it said.
 
The funny thing about conspiracy theories, there’s a great deal of hypery about some arch-evil that’s obviously there and yet not there, and very little attention about the evil we see all the time.
 
Hi Bryan,

Instead of reading the documents of Second Vatican Council (it can be a bit difficult to understand them deeply unless you don’t have some theological preparation)

as first step try to read some of it background, for example:

amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0674031695/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

John W. O’Malley SJ - What Happened at Vatican II

or

the book published many years ago by my confrère

Rhine Flows into the Tiber - Ralph M. Wiltgen, SVD

amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0895551861/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

There is a space for some critique of some texts of Vatican II but don’t believe that whole thing was done to destroy the Church.

God bless you! :signofcross:
 
As a Catholic, your true moral conscience should be telling you that everything that came out of Vatican II is accepted by the Magisterium. If not entirely infallible, as a Catholic, we accept Vatican II and give it due respect.

Stop reading Fr. Malachy Martin. He may have been an advisor to Popes, but he was relieved of his priestly duties upon his own request. He left the Jesuits upon his own request but remained a secular priest. The Vatican disagrees – he was laicized, though, due to the confusion, for years he was allowed to perform priestly duties as a secular priest. But by 1997, I think the Vatican had had enough.

vatican2voice.org/
 
Bryan77 said:
I asked it here in traditional Catholicism, because I thought it would be the best place to ask it. Since from the name of the sub-forum it suggests that a lot of Catholics prefer the old way. And I literally know nothing about it. The only change I’ve seen is the new translation.
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Here is a website that I have very helpful for answering this sort of question: fisheaters.com/forcatholics.html
 
floresco said:
Here is a website that I have very helpful for answering this sort of question: fisheaters.com/forcatholics.html
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From Catholic Culture (catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=1915&repos=2&subrepos=0&searchid=850351)

Fish Eaters is a personal apologetical site which targets non-Catholic Christians, converts and Catholics. Its stated purpose is to bring people to Christ and His Church. The statement of faith posted by the webmaster is excellent but is seriously undermined by the implicit and explicit rejection of the New Mass and Vatican Council II.

The section on Being Catholic has a wealth of information and is tastefully illustrated.

Review Ratings what do these ratings mean?
First Evaluated: 10/23/2002; Last Updated: 07/04/2011

Fidelity: Danger!
Resources: Excellent
Useability: Excellent

I would USE EXTREME CAUTION when using a forum that is openly hostile to Vatican ll to find out about it.
 
LightBound said:
From Catholic Culture (catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=1915&repos=2&subrepos=0&searchid=850351)

Fish Eaters is a personal apologetical site which targets non-Catholic Christians, converts and Catholics. Its stated purpose is to bring people to Christ and His Church. The statement of faith posted by the webmaster is excellent but is seriously undermined by the implicit and explicit rejection of the New Mass and Vatican Council II.

The section on Being Catholic has a wealth of information and is tastefully illustrated.

Review Ratings what do these ratings mean?
First Evaluated: 10/23/2002; Last Updated: 07/04/2011

Fidelity: Danger!
Resources: Excellent
Useability: Excellent

I would USE EXTREME CAUTION when using a forum that is openly hostile to Vatican ll to find out about it.
Click to expand...
Poster, this isn’t only addressed to you, but why do people post Catholic Culture reviews? Do they have some sort of special authority?

I’ve seen reviews posted several times.
 
TrueLight said:
Poster, this isn’t only addressed to you, but why do people post Catholic Culture reviews? Do they have some sort of special authority?

I’ve seen reviews posted several times.
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I think it’s because that site carefully checks for anything that is not faithful to the Magisterium. I don’t think they have any more “authority” than the CA does in that regard, but it’s a place you can go to make sure what site you are looking at is faithful to the Magisterium in all regards. There are far too many people on CAF trying to make their point about an issue they are passionate about by posting links to sedevacantist sites and those openly hostile to Vatican ll, John Paul ll, and our current Pontiff. The mods do a great job of removing those posts, but I wonder if those particular members really know those sites are not faithful to the Magisterium or if they don’t care as long as they have something to back up their view…That’s why I think a lot of folks here post those reviews- to let others know that there will likely be more personal opinions than actual Church teachings on a site. That way, others won’t be led astray.
 
Bryan77 said:
I don’t want this to become a conspiracy thread. I just mentioned the cause for my concern. I’m sorry for even bringing it up. I should have just asked my question, and left it at that. I just want to learn about Vatican ii.

I asked it here in traditional Catholicism, because I thought it would be the best place to ask it. Since from the name of the sub-forum it suggests that a lot of Catholics prefer the old way. And I literally know nothing about it. The only change I’ve seen is the new translation.
Click to expand...
Here are the Vatican II documents in the original Latin and an English translation, which I consider to be a little biased. (I say that because, for example, the phrase haud raro (“not rarely”) is translated as “frequently.”) Maybe the documents too will be retranslated some day.

ewtn.com/library/councils/v2all.htm
 
TrueLight said:
Poster, this isn’t only addressed to you, but why do people post Catholic Culture reviews? Do they have some sort of special authority?

I’ve seen reviews posted several times.
Click to expand...
FE is a great site with a lot of very good resources, although the forum can get out of hand.
 
LightBound said:
From Catholic Culture (catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=1915&repos=2&subrepos=0&searchid=850351)

Fish Eaters is a personal apologetical site which targets non-Catholic Christians, converts and Catholics. Its stated purpose is to bring people to Christ and His Church. The statement of faith posted by the webmaster is excellent but is seriously undermined by the implicit and explicit rejection of the New Mass and Vatican Council II.
…]
I would USE EXTREME CAUTION when using a forum that is openly hostile to Vatican ll to find out about it.
Click to expand...
I disagree with the assessment given by Catholic Culture, although, even they admit that the statement of faith is excellent. I think they are reading in rejection of the New Mass and Vatican II, although concerns are expressed.

The OP wants to know about what sort of problems people have with Vatican II. FE is the sort of place he can find that out. Presumably he can go elsewhere to get other perspectives on it.
 
LightBound said:
I think it’s because that site carefully checks for anything that is not faithful to the Magisterium. I don’t think they have any more “authority” than the CA does in that regard, but it’s a place you can go to make sure what site you are looking at is faithful to the Magisterium in all regards. There are far too many people on CAF trying to make their point about an issue they are passionate about by posting links to sedevacantist sites and those openly hostile to Vatican ll, John Paul ll, and our current Pontiff. The mods do a great job of removing those posts, but I wonder if those particular members really know those sites are not faithful to the Magisterium or if they don’t care as long as they have something to back up their view…That’s why I think a lot of folks here post those reviews- to let others know that there will likely be more personal opinions than actual Church teachings on a site. That way, others won’t be led astray.
Click to expand...
A person might get the impression from these comments that Fish Eaters is a sedevacantist site or openly hostile to the Pope. That is certainly not the case.

I do agree that being faithful to the Magisterium is important.
 
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