What's up with the mormons?

[Path_Finder]

I know I should have respected them! I’m sorry, I think I even confessed it.

It just dawned on me, a similar situation some of us have probably heard of is Native American Sacred ground or Indian Burial Grounds. I’ve gone through some sort of Native American land a few times where they ask you to be real respectful should you go through. I would not tempt fate in any way! This is also a different situation but I think merits a mention.

 

[Path_Finder]

I know I should have respected them! I’m sorry, I think I even confessed it.

I wouldn’t think about it too much. There’s a lot worse things.

 

[tiagolc]

I wouldn’t think about it too much. There’s a lot worse things.

I know, I know

 

[iepuras]

IDK why he said I was lying then. Oh well, the past is the past.
So, what does their theology say about the first Father?

I echo Paul’s post. When teaching others, Mormons have the “milk before meat” concept. They don’t teach the complete picture to those who are inquiring into the LDS church. The missionaries only teach the “milk”. The “meat” comes later when Mormons go to the temple. The deception is second nature to them. I doubt most even realize they are doing it.

When I was a teenager, I asked about the “first Father” in Sunday School. My teacher was one of the so-called Mormon scholars in the ward, and he was unable to give an answer that was remotely coherent. I have never known any LDS who spent much time thinking about the infinite regression issue.

I was born and raised Mormon and left the LDS church a couple of years ago. I had heard things from “anti-Mormon apostates” that I thought were lies but were actually truth.

Don’t beat yourself up too badly for watching the temple endowment video online. Except for the tokens and signs, most of what is in the LDS temple endowment can be found in LDS scriptures, just not all in the same place and presented in the same way.

 

[PaulDupre1]

When I was a teenager, I asked about the “first Father” in Sunday School. My teacher was one of the so-called Mormon scholars in the ward, and he was unable to give an answer that was remotely coherent. I have never known any LDS who spent much time thinking about the infinite regression issue.

When they do, they get into trouble. When my LDS wife was at BYU, she was part of an off-campus discussion group. They discussed a lot of the teachings in the JoD, but also went beyond that. They asked that same question about the first Father (how, when and where did the very first god become a god? Or was possible that the first god was always God?), and decided to research the LDS scriptures and the JoD to see if there were any hints at an answer.

This went on for a few months until someone ratted them out. Boyd K. Packer came down from SLC with names, meeting times, etc. He gathered the group members together along with an official from BYU and the BYU stake president. Packer told them to cease these speculations immediately or face expulsion from BYU and possible Church discipline.

Needless to say they disbanded the group immediately and were afraid even to speak to one another from then on. They never found out who the informant was.

My question, when my then-fiancee told me about this, was “Why is it okay to speculate about God the Father having sex with his daughter Mary, and it is okay to speculate about a Heavenly Mother, and it is okay to speculate that polygamy will be practiced again during the millennium, but it is not okay to speculate about the first Father?”.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[tiagolc]

When they do, they get into trouble. When my LDS wife was at BYU, she was part of an off-campus discussion group. They discussed a lot of the teachings in the JoD, but also went beyond that. They asked that same question about the first Father (how, when and where did the very first god become a god? Or was possible that the first god was always God?), and decided to research the LDS scriptures and the JoD to see if there were any hints at an answer.

This went on for a few months until someone ratted them out. Boyd K. Packer came down from SLC with names, meeting times, etc. He gathered the group members together along with an official from BYU and the BYU stake president. Packer told them to cease these speculations immediately or face expulsion from BYU and possible Church discipline.

Needless to say they disbanded the group immediately and were afraid even to speak to one another from then on. They never found out who the informant was.

My question, when my then-fiancee told me about this, was “Why is it okay to speculate about God the Father having sex with his daughter Mary, and it is okay to speculate about a Heavenly Mother, and it is okay to speculate that polygamy will be practiced again during the millennium, but it is not okay to speculate about the first Father?”.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Wow, so they don’t have answers but still keep the people in the religion…
Off topic, look at this, IDK if this is a serious statement but it made me giggle:
millennialmormons.com/breaking-pope-join-mormon-church-meeting-modern-day-apostle/
They say that Pope Francis will convert to mormonism just because he shook hands with the LDS leader

EDIT: nevermind, it was a satire, I didn’t read the last sentence. I though they were really thinking he would convert.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Wow, so they don’t have answers but still keep the people in the religion…

To be fair, every religion, including Catholicism, has questions to which there is no definitive answer. But most religions don’t hunt you down and threaten you for speculating (especially in the privacy of your home) about what the answers might be or what you hope the answer is.

Paul

 

[tiagolc]

To be fair, every religion, including Catholicism, has questions to which there is no definitive answer. But most religions don’t hunt you down and threaten you for speculating (especially in the privacy of your home) about what the answers might be or what you hope the answer is.

Paul

Yes, I know, but one thing is a mystery and another thing is a question that isn’t answered, not even as a mystery, and won’t let you try.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Yes, I know, but one thing is a mystery and another thing is a question that isn’t answered, not even as a mystery, and won’t let you try.

I think what you mean is: there is a difference between “We don’t know” and “Don’t think or talk about that!”. Right?

If so, I agree with you.

Paul

 

[tiagolc]

I think what you mean is: there is a difference between “We don’t know” and “Don’t think or talk about that!”. Right?

If so, I agree with you.

Paul

The thing is we do know, we know mysteries are mysteries and we will never know, they don’t know and they won’t let talk about that. I think we agree.

 

[iepuras]

When they do, they get into trouble. When my LDS wife was at BYU, she was part of an off-campus discussion group. They discussed a lot of the teachings in the JoD, but also went beyond that. They asked that same question about the first Father (how, when and where did the very first god become a god? Or was possible that the first god was always God?), and decided to research the LDS scriptures and the JoD to see if there were any hints at an answer.

This went on for a few months until someone ratted them out. Boyd K. Packer came down from SLC with names, meeting times, etc. He gathered the group members together along with an official from BYU and the BYU stake president. Packer told them to cease these speculations immediately or face expulsion from BYU and possible Church discipline.

Needless to say they disbanded the group immediately and were afraid even to speak to one another from then on. They never found out who the informant was.

My question, when my then-fiancee told me about this, was “Why is it okay to speculate about God the Father having sex with his daughter Mary, and it is okay to speculate about a Heavenly Mother, and it is okay to speculate that polygamy will be practiced again during the millennium, but it is not okay to speculate about the first Father?”.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

That is terrible. I was never able to find a fellow Mormon (at BYU or in my YSA wards) who was even remotely interested in discussing deep doctrine. I talked about about the big questions of life with my non-Mormon friends.

Perhaps Mr. Packer put a stop to this discussion group because he feared the group would have reasoned their way to the True God.

 

[kimg901]

I say we pray for the lost and deceived!

 

[Marie5890]

When they do, they get into trouble. When my LDS wife was at BYU, she was part of an off-campus discussion group. They discussed a lot of the teachings in the JoD, but also went beyond that. They asked that same question about the first Father (how, when and where did the very first god become a god? Or was possible that the first god was always God?), and decided to research the LDS scriptures and the JoD to see if there were any hints at an answer.

This went on for a few months until someone ratted them out. Boyd K. Packer came down from SLC with names, meeting times, etc. He gathered the group members together along with an official from BYU and the BYU stake president. Packer told them to cease these speculations immediately or face expulsion from BYU and possible Church discipline.

Needless to say they disbanded the group immediately and were afraid even to speak to one another from then on. They never found out who the informant was.

My question, when my then-fiancee told me about this, was “Why is it okay to speculate about God the Father having sex with his daughter Mary, and it is okay to speculate about a Heavenly Mother, and it is okay to speculate that polygamy will be practiced again during the millennium, but it is not okay to speculate about the first Father?”.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Packer…whatta piece of work…

God gave us intellects to be used, the ability to reason is a gift. No one should be shamed into not using such God-given gifts.

But Mormonism does have a great deal to fear when it comes to it’s membership using their God-given ability to reason and to think and to reflect. To ponder and speculate.

I understand one of the newer “Mormon feel good phrases” coming out of general conference by one of the general authorities is

“Doubt your doubts” What poor advice.

 

[WonderAndAwe]

It just dawned on me, a similar situation some of us have probably heard of is Native American Sacred ground or Indian Burial Grounds. I’ve gone through some sort of Native American land a few times where they ask you to be real respectful should you go through. I would not tempt fate in any way! This is also a different situation but I think merits a mention.

Do you respect the grounds of a cemetery should you go through? Tossing an empty bag of Funyuns down at Mick Johnston’s tombstone isn’t going to result in his vengeful spirit coming after you, it’s just a basic courtesy to respect the dead and other cultures.

And Zachariah was muted because he essentially told the angel: “Oh yeah? My wife is pregnant? Why don’t you make a purple duck shroued in lightning fly up from the ground if you want me to buy that claim.”