What's With Protestant Funerals ?

[strngrnrth]

One of my friends from a Protestant church said to me that she recently went to a Catholic funeral and it was the worst funeral she ahd ever been to. I don’t remember why. but to her that was a good reason not to be OK with me becoming Catholic.
On the other hand, I went to my ggm’s funeral when I was a teenager (she died Baptist, I don’t know whether she was raised Baptist).
It was the worst funeral I can remember going to. Few people wore black or even dark colors, hardly anyone cried, some people addressed the attendees with long speeches, one was joking and said someone in some wandering anecdote “yammered like a woman” (this at a woman’s funeral). It seemed so inappropriate I was in a rage. But no one else seemed to have a problem.
An altar call would have been a note of gravity. That would have vastly improved what looked to me like a comedy funeral. I love comedy, it’s part of my family and part of me, but it’s not right at a funeral IMO.
So we all perceive funerals and the right way to have funerals differently. And there are good and bad funerals in both Catholic and Protestant families, so it seems.

 

[DDClark]

How blatantly arrogant is it to be so judgmental and hypocritical without knowing a single thing about the closeness of my relationship with this family? And you want to call me arrogant? My advise - get out of the giving advise business.

If you must know, know that I knew them well. These are next door neighbors who were emotionally and spiritually close to me and my late wife. My friend was diagnosed with the same identical terminal cancer 6 months after my wife was diagnosed with it. This has been going on for 2 years. My wife died 9 months ago from the same disease. I have been coaching my friend and his wife about the medical aspects of the disease and the eventuality I knew they would face.

I can see exactly in her face how she feels and how fearful she is about running the business by herself. I know intimately what she is going through - we emailed each other encouragement and promises of prayers all the time. What makes it much worse is these were fundamentalist that fully expected God to cure Him of his advanced terminal cancer. They never believed that God would not cure them. They were shocked that my wife died from her terminal cancer and couldn’t understand it because “we though she had enough faith and trust in God to beat it”.

No, the surviving widow and family are most definitely not ready for this. No one can be. They will not handle it well because they expected God to cure them and He didn’t. She is inwardly devastated and I can recognize and see that kind of pain and fear as plain as I can read a book. I know this experientially, emotionally, intellectually and empathetically.

Enough said,
James

I am sorry for your loss - both the loss of your wife and your friend.

I understand that what I am saying is not what you want to hear, and I certainly don’t expect you to take my advice. It is easy to assume we know how others feel when in reality, we don’t know as much as we think we do (thus the use of the word arrogant).

May God grant you peace in your loss and the wisdom to provide support and encouragement to this family in the way that they most need it. May he also grant you the strength you (all) need during this time of suffering.

ddc

 

[MaryBruno]

How blatantly arrogant is it to be so judgmental and hypocritical without knowing a single thing about the closeness of my relationship with this family? And you want to call me arrogant? My advise - get out of the giving advise business.

If you must know, know that I knew them well. These are next door neighbors who were emotionally and spiritually close to me and my late wife. My friend was diagnosed with the same identical terminal cancer 6 months after my wife was diagnosed with it. This has been going on for 2 years. My wife died 9 months ago from the same disease. I have been coaching my friend and his wife about the medical aspects of the disease and the eventuality I knew they would face.

I can see exactly in her face how she feels and how fearful she is about running the business by herself. I know intimately what she is going through - we emailed each other encouragement and promises of prayers all the time. What makes it much worse is these were fundamentalist that fully expected God to cure Him of his advanced terminal cancer. They never believed that God would not cure them. They were shocked that my wife died from her terminal cancer and couldn’t understand it because “we though she had enough faith and trust in God to beat it”.

No, the surviving widow and family are most definitely not ready for this. No one can be. They will not handle it well because they expected God to cure them and He didn’t. She is inwardly devastated and I can recognize and see that kind of pain and fear as plain as I can read a book. I know this experientially, emotionally, intellectually and empathetically.

Enough said,
James

Pray for your friend and for his family.

I wish I could find a website, I searched my favorites, for you, but came up empty handed.

I heard a man on *The Journey Home *who had a similar experience with the death of his first wife. They believed if their faith was strong enough his wife would survive the illness. She died and that led to very bad feelings that she did not have enough faith in God. This man eventually converted to Catholicism and remarried. I wish I could find the information to share with you.

 

[lovesMary]

Hi James,
I can relate to how you feel because I’ve been to a funeral where they evangelized the mourners and it left a bad taste in my mouth. The preacher did sound like a salesman. It’s very distasteful to me and I did the same as you, comparing and thinking out on how shallow it all seemed, in addition to the pushy evangelizing.

Just try to be open minded, there are many traditions in the world. This type of church is very sociable, they find their main source of support in each other. They aren’t into liturgy, in their eyes that is empty tradition, which it actually can be for some people.

I understand where you’re coming from, but as a friend you are there to support the family. You should go with the flow and not make it into something all about you and your needs, which it sounds like you did restrain yourself, although with some difficulty. They might feel the same discomfort at a Catholic funeral, and might accidentally offend someone by being too boisterous, not understanding how things are done and thinking that our Mass is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo empty ritual.

 

[Rightlydivide]

When someone posts something about another church that is perceived as negative, you cannot expect people to embrace you and not argue. Perhaps you feel that is the way it SHOULD be but it is not ever going to be…even when you are mourning.
The proof is in this post. The post by Light Seeker is incredible and worth reading again…myself included.

 

[Light_Seeker]

The proof is in this post. The post by Light Seeker is incredible and worth reading again…myself included.

Thank you, you now have me blushing, as there are many good posts here.

I do want to add to the OP that I truly do feel for your loss, I sympathize, and do understand your grief and emotions.

And, as a very involved & somewhat heavily biased Catholic convert, would never have imaged I would be defending any aspect of Protestantism in this forum!

 

[the_phoenix]

O most gentle Heart of Jesus, ever present in the Blessed Sacrament, ever consumed with burning love for the poor captive souls in Purgatory, have mercy on the souls of Thy departed servants, especially the friend of CentralFLJames. Be not severe in Thy judgments, but let some drops of Thy Precious Blood fall upon the devouring flames. And do Thou, O merciful Saviour, send Thy holy angels to conduct them to a place of refreshment, light and peace. Amen.

 

[THutch04]

I’m not trying to start problems here, but what is the problem with people not crying at funerals? I’ve been to several and I don’t cry either, even if it’s been for family members. I just don’t like to show emotion in public. I’ve only been to one Catholic funeral, and to be honest I can’t say it was that much different from other faith traditions. I’ve never seen a minister in another denomination try to evangelize Catholics in that context, and I agree that is the WRONG time and place to do it. I guess some denominations are different than others…

 

[CentralFLJames]

I’m not trying to start problems here, but what is the problem with people not crying at funerals? I’ve been to several and I don’t cry either, even if it’s been for family members. I just don’t like to show emotion in public. I’ve only been to one Catholic funeral, and to be honest I can’t say it was that much different from other faith traditions. I’ve never seen a minister in another denomination try to evangelize Catholics in that context, and I agree that is the WRONG time and place to do it. I guess some denominations are different than others…

Not crying or lack of emotion was not the major issue for me.

My principal revulsion was to the tackiness of the (Baptist) Protestant minister trying to take what should have been solemn occasion (which is simultaneously both happy spirtually but sad in our human empathy) and turn it PRINCIPALLY into an opportunity to recruit new members into HIS church. We were all essentially held hostage by desire to pay respects to our departed friend by a host who exploited the event for his own entirely seperate agenda. It was not about respecting the deceased or even worshiping God it was about recruiting for HIS church. I think most of us of other faith can accept the mere differences “in tradition” and “denominal doctrine” (even if tradition is to adamantly deny they have no tradition or doctrine). But from a common non-denominational human perspective it just came across as “tacky” and “low class” that we of different faiths who were called by our common humanity to come together and give the deceased his due honor and respect became victims to somone else’s personal agenda. Worse, our beliefs were attacked and even mocked.

So rather than having an occasion to mutually shared peace among fellow humans all grieving together that peace, innocence and blessing was destroyed by a minister who went out of his way to divide and alienate and even attack other’s beliefs. This I think is not unique to this one specific gathering. This I think is in fact the standard modus operandi of this particular Protestant sect. We all came together to remember the deceased and honor him - not to be shouted at, insulted, and compelled through guilt and intimidation to join his congregation. The minister hijacked the agenda implicit through the common natural human expectation to honor the deceased.

The other doctrinal things mentioned that troubled me (e.g. how to get closure from a non-liturgical based gathering that does not even honor or respect the deceased) are less important to me now that the shock of it has been superseded by prior thing above.

James

 

[Dauphin]

This is what should be sung at a funeral:

youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0

 

[CentralFLJames]

This is what should be sung at a funeral:

youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0

Utterly Angelic. Beam me up!

Agree

The words are not important - only the modality of the form. Anyone not knowing Latin could not mistake the common beauty and harmonious interaction present and implied in God’s showing us His face through the male and female imagery present everywhere in creation; an image that beckons and invites through natural point, counter-point to come, discover and enter into communal union to something much more beautiful than mere words can ever say.

James

 

[Old_Scholar]

CentralflJames

I didn’t read every post in this thread but read the first few by you.

You said:

I sensed it would be an insult to pray over the corpse or show it any respect;

Lots of respect is shown the corpse but why would you want to pray over it? It’s a little late for that. The person is dead and prayer now will do him/her no good. It has been settled.

He went on that ‘we are not here to morn the departed saved in heaven but to celebrate Jesus’ victory in saving this poor sinner’! ‘We are all to die as sinners but “you too can go to heaven” just like this poor sinner if “you are saved”’.

The mourning is all over by the time of the funeral. Don’t think the wife and/or children have mourned. They have probably all cried out by now but this is a time for celebration of this person’s life and future. Not his death. You can do nothing for him now. If he was a Christian, then don’t worry about him. He has already been assured of his place and it should be considered a victory. In fact, at many protestant funerals the song sung by everyone there is often “Victory in Jesus” and it is completely justified.

You can’t be sure your faith is the right faith any more than those people who you so ashamedly spoke of. Shame on you. At judgment day we will all find out the truth—woe be to those who have followed the wrong star.

Shame on you for berating such an important event.

 

[Dauphin]

Utterly Angelic. Beam me up!

Agree

The words are not important - only the modality of the form. Anyone not knowing Latin could not mistake the common beauty and harmonious interaction present and implied in God’s showing us His face through the male and female imagery present everywhere in creation; an image that beckons and invites through natural point, counter-point to come, discover and enter into communal union to something much more beautiful than mere words can ever say.

James

I think there’s a benefit in knowing the words, but there’s no mistaking the sense of supplication the chant expresses.

 

[Dauphin]

Lots of respect is shown the corpse but why would you want to pray over it? It’s a little late for that. The person is dead and prayer now will do him/her no good. It has been settled.

Purgatory - the remission of temporal punishment due to sin. Also, prayer is never wasted.

You can’t be sure your faith is the right faith any more than those people who you so ashamedly spoke of. Shame on you. At judgment day we will all find out the truth—woe be to those who have followed the wrong star.

The truth can be known with certainty in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. If we don’t have a certain rule of faith, then God has abandoned us.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Shame on you for berating such an important event.

Hi Old Scholar - welcome back. Long time no see.

I did not berate the event - I berated the shameful behavior of the minister.

Not to side track the topic but I thought most Protestants (am being more careful now since I am now learning through chastisement that there are a wide variety of flavors) “the important event” was on the day that they first believed - Baptism. With the possible exception of birthing new children for God that kind of makes everything else in a Protestant’s lives irrelevant does it not? Since “once saved always saved” even if they commit the worst sins imaginable they can’t die ever again right? So why even attend “social rituals” like marriage, birthdays or visit them in the hospital when they are sick if it can not help them or honor them in anyway?

If you want to spin off a new thread to discuss these topics please do.

James

 

[Old_Scholar]

Purgatory - the remission of temporal punishment due to sin. Also, prayer is never wasted.

The truth can be known with certainty in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. If we don’t have a certain rule of faith, then God has abandoned us.

Or you have abandoned God!

 

[Old_Scholar]

Hi Old Scholar - welcome back. Long time no see.

I did not berate the event - I berated the shameful behavior of the minister.

Not to side track the topic but I thought most Protestants (am being more careful now since I am now learning through chastisement that there are a wide variety of flavors) “the important event” was on the day that they first believed - Baptism. With the possible exception of birthing new children for God that kind of makes everything else in a Protestant’s lives irrelevant does it not? Since “once saved always saved” even if they commit the worst sins imaginable they can’t die ever again right? So why even attend “social rituals” like marriage, birthdays or visit them in the hospital when they are sick if it can not help them or honor them in anyway?

If you want to spin off a new thread to discuss these topics please do.

James

I will agree with you that some Baptists teach the wrong thing regarding “once saved—always saved” but it is certainly a true concept; taught by Scripture. I believe the Roman Catholics believe it as well. It’s just that it is not always taught properly.

The problem comes when some protestants claim that they are “saved” the moment they accept Christ as their personal saviour. In a sense that is correct to the extent that, should they, from that point on, do as Christ has commanded, they "will be saved" for eternity on judgment day. After all the soul is not immortal but we have the possibility of becoming immortal at that day—provided…

I realize that some protestant ministers make the claim as you say but then when that person does something wrong, they come back and say, “well he wasn’t saved after all.”

Paul covers this subject in the 6th chapter of Romans quite well I believe.

But answer this—is this any worse than believing that the church can save you? Do you believe that because the church says they will save you, you feel you don’t need a personal relationship with Christ? Especially since the Scriptures tell us differently…

 

[jmcrae]

But answer this—is this any worse than believing that the church can save you? Do you believe that because the church says they will save you, you feel you don’t need a personal relationship with Christ? Especially since the Scriptures tell us differently…

One of the things that the Church gives us is a “personal relationship with Christ,” although we don’t usually phrase it like that.

We touch and hold Jesus in Holy Communion, and take Him into our bodies, in response to His commandment in John 6:58.

We speak to Him through the priest in the Confessional, and receive spoken reassurances of forgiveness from Christ through the priest.

We are commanded to pray constantly; there are so many different forms of prayer available in the Catholic Church - the Mass, the Liturgy of the Hours, the Rosary, the Divine Mercy, every kind of Novena, various Litanies, the Stations of the Cross, and even plain old ordinary extemporaneous prayer.

How much more “personal” would you like it to be?

 

[Dauphin]

But answer this—is this any worse than believing that the church can save you? Do you believe that because the church says they will save you, you feel you don’t need a personal relationship with Christ? Especially since the Scriptures tell us differently…

We are saved by the grace of God. This grace is made manifest in the Sacraments. In that sense, we are saved* through* the Church, not by it.

 

[Ghoti]

Just to get ever so slightly back on topic…

Grieve however you want to. Whatever gets you through to the next day. Stand silently. Weep quietly. Wail and keen like a banshee. Smile and punch your long lost brother on the shoulder, and shake your dad’s hand. Or bawl like a baby on his shoulder. I’ve heard of people who giggle at funerals. It may appear inappropriate, but it’s often a sign of the mind’s inability to process the grief – it’s not disrespectful.

Jesus wept at Lazarus’ tomb. The women at Jesus’ tomb wept. Did the Apostles weep? We don’t know. Did John weep on his brother James’ shoulder just like he rested on his best Friend’s shoulder at the Last Supper, or did he get all his crying done at the foot of the Cross? Did Mary weep on John’s shoulder? If she did, were they the Latin-Western silent dignified martyr-tears, or did she wail like a woman whose son was taken from her? Doesn’t matter – whatever their response, it does not affect their faith. They knew Jesus was Lord, He had promised to come back – and even if they did not truly know what that meant, they still had faith and trusted in Him – so whether the laughed or cried or stood silently or showed a slide presentation does not matter one whit. They grieved whatever way they knew how – just like we grieve when our loved ones go. We don’t weep for them we weep for us – because, resurrection or not, heaven or not, saved or not, we are left behind and we really really miss them.