What's "wrong" with being a contemplative in today's Church?

[Michael_Heinzen]

Jesus’ replied: “Martha, Martha [the Activist], you are anxious and worried about many things. There is need of only one thing. Mary [the Contemplative] has chosen the better part and it will not be taken from her.” (Luke 10:41-42)

QUESTION: Is there anything wrong with focusing one’s life on being a contemplative in today’s Catholic Church? The vibes I get nowadays in the parish where I attend Mass is–If you are not deeply into Stewardship, giving of your Time, Talent or Treasure, you are a nominal Catholic and lacking as a Christian. I seem to get this message in most parishes where I’ve attended Mass these days.

No doubt John Paul II and Mother Teresa were active contemplatives, and many other active Marthas in this world are also contemplatives. But there are laity and contemplative religious who “give” of themselves MOSTLY through prayer rather than in marches, holding signs in front of abortion clinics, performing parish lay ministries, etc. I also did these “active things” at one time, but now I feel called to mostly PRAY and be in LOVE with God. I still give of my treasure for the missions, but I do not want to be one of the active missionaries. I no longer wish to serve in a parish ministry, but I’ll gladly give of my treasure. Yet, the other day a priest mentioned how we need to be “involved” rather than just throw money in the basket.

I’m saddened by the message I feel nowadays that if you are a Mary you are doing little for God and Brethern, somehow not living up to Matthew 25.

Hopefully my impression is incorrect. Perhaps the person who sits in front of the tabernacle or monstrance “looking at God while God looks back in an exchange of love”; or the Catholic who prays the beads or the Liturgy of the Hours; or the person who listens to God speak during Lectio with the Scriptures, instead of rushing about in active ministry, is still following a worthwhile Christian Way. Are we still pleasing our Lord, or will He say that He does not know us because He never saw us at the soup kitchen, the bed of the elderly, or holding a sign in front of the abortion clinic? What do you think?

 

[paramedicgirl]

Jesus’ replied: “Martha, Martha [the Activist], you are anxious and worried about many things. There is need of only one thing. Mary [the Contemplative] has chosen the better part and it will not be taken from here.” (Luke 10:41-42)

QUESTION: Is there anything wrong with focusing one’s life on being a contemplative in today’s Catholic Church? The vibes I get nowadays in the parish where I attend Mass is–If you are not deeply into Stewardship, giving of your Time, Talent or Treasure, you are a nominal Catholic and lacking as a Christian. I seem to get this message in most parishes where I’ve attended Mass these days.

No doubt John Paul II and Mother Teresa were active contemplatives, and many other active Marthas in this world are also contemplatives. But there are laity and contemplative religious who “give” of themselves MOSTLY through prayer rather than in marches, holding signs in front of abortion clinics, performing parish lay ministries, etc. I also did these “active things” at one time, but now I feel called to mostly PRAY and be in LOVE with God. I still give of my treasure for the missions, but I do not want to be one of the active missionaries. I no longer wish to serve in a parish ministry, but I’ll gladly give of my treasure. Yet, the other day a priest mentioned how we need to be “involved” rather than just throw money in the basket.

I’m saddened by the message I feel nowadays that if you are a Mary you are doing little for God and Brethern, somehow not living up to Matthew 25.

Hopefully my impression is incorrect. Perhaps the person who sits in front of the tabernacle or monstrance “looking at God while God looks back in an exchange of love”; or the Catholic who prays the beads or the Liturgy of the Hours; or the person who listens to God speak during Lectio with the Scriptures, instead of rushing about in active ministry, is still following a worthwhile Christian Way. Are we still pleasing our Lord, or will He say that He does not know us because He never saw us at the soup kitchen, the bed of the elderly, or holding a sign in front of the abortion clinic? What do you think?

Remember when nuns’ vocations were to pray for priests? They didn’t rush around in active ministry. And now that they do, who is praying for our priests?

The person who sits in front of the tabernacle or monstrance “looking at God while God looks back in an exchange of love”; or the Catholic who prays the beads or the Liturgy of the Hours; or the person who listens to God speak during Lectio with the Scriptures, instead of rushing about in active ministry, is still following a worthwhile Christian Way.

My money is on the above quote. Be a contemplative. We have enough Martha’s.

 

[Uxor]

Jesus’ replied: “Martha, Martha [the Activist], you are anxious and worried about many things. There is need of only one thing. Mary [the Contemplative] has chosen the better part and it will not be taken from her.” (Luke 10:41-42)

QUESTION: Is there anything wrong with focusing one’s life on being a contemplative in today’s Catholic Church? The vibes I get nowadays in the parish where I attend Mass is–If you are not deeply into Stewardship, giving of your Time, Talent or Treasure, you are a nominal Catholic and lacking as a Christian. I seem to get this message in most parishes where I’ve attended Mass these days.

No doubt John Paul II and Mother Teresa were active contemplatives, and many other active Marthas in this world are also contemplatives. But there are laity and contemplative religious who “give” of themselves MOSTLY through prayer rather than in marches, holding signs in front of abortion clinics, performing parish lay ministries, etc. I also did these “active things” at one time, but now I feel called to mostly PRAY and be in LOVE with God. I still give of my treasure for the missions, but I do not want to be one of the active missionaries. I no longer wish to serve in a parish ministry, but I’ll gladly give of my treasure. Yet, the other day a priest mentioned how we need to be “involved” rather than just throw money in the basket.

I’m saddened by the message I feel nowadays that if you are a Mary you are doing little for God and Brethern, somehow not living up to Matthew 25.

Hopefully my impression is incorrect. Perhaps the person who sits in front of the tabernacle or monstrance “looking at God while God looks back in an exchange of love”; or the Catholic who prays the beads or the Liturgy of the Hours; or the person who listens to God speak during Lectio with the Scriptures, instead of rushing about in active ministry, is still following a worthwhile Christian Way. Are we still pleasing our Lord, or will He say that He does not know us because He never saw us at the soup kitchen, the bed of the elderly, or holding a sign in front of the abortion clinic? What do you think?

At my old Parish, they wanted people to volunteer their talents like cleaning, cutting the lawn etc. One of the woman that I use to relieve at Perpetual Adoration our Priest told her when she greeted him after Mass to start cleaning, the place needed cleaned up. With everyone volunteering why aren’t the Priests more available, for confessions or return calls. If I needed last rites at my old parish it never would of happen.

 

[paramedicgirl]

At my old Parish, they wanted people to volunteer their talents like cleaning, cutting the lawn etc. One of the woman that I use to relieve at Perpetual Adoration our Priest told her when she greeted him after Mass to start cleaning, the place needed cleaned up. With everyone volunteering why aren’t the Priests more available, for confessions or return calls. If I needed last rites at my old parish it never would of happen.

Satellite TV? Just a guess.

 

[Uxor]

Satellite TV? Just a guess.

LOL! Could be.

About 5 years I drove to this Parish because it indicated in the Yellow Pages it had a book store. That was the only Catholic Book Store that I could find within 50 miles where I use to live. As I drove up this little old man was sitting on a driving lawn mower cutting the grass. As I approached, he shut off the lawn mower and got off to meet me. I said to Him, Father do you have a Book Store here? He was dressed in workman clothes and asked, How did you know I was a Priest? For some reason I knew though I had never been to the Parish or met this Priest before.

 

[paramedicgirl]

LOL! Could be.

About 5 years I drove to this Parish because it indicated in the Yellow Pages it had a book store. That was the only Catholic Book Store that I could find within 50 miles where I use to live. As I drove up this little old man was sitting on a driving lawn mower cutting the grass. As I approached, he shut off the lawn mower and got off to meet me. I said to Him, Father do you have a Book Store here? He was dressed in workman clothes and asked, How did you know I was a Priest? For some reason I knew though I had never been to the Parish or met this Priest before.

You mean he wasn’t mowing the lawn in his cassock? Must not have been SSPX, then.

 

[Uxor]

You mean he wasn’t mowing the lawn in his cassock? Must not have been SSPX, then.

Your right, but stuck out in the boondocks in the middle of the woods by himself, a little old church and two room residence. There was no community there, but just a few trailers and a few houses down the road from him that was it. God Bless Him. I ended up going back to have Confession, I was the only person there, and he prepared prayfully beforehand.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

I can’t help but think part of the reason the contemplative is not emphasized as much today is that it has been stripped from our liturgy. Now at Mass we are always “doing” something whether standing, sitting, kneeling, responding, singing, etc. Further, there are the activities lay people are involved in at Mass such as lectors or Eucharistic ministers. Perhaps this activity (with little or no periods of silence) leads people to unconsciously emphasise the more active parts of life outside the liturgy as well.

In the Tridentine Mass, I always thought it wise that there are large periods of silence built in. I think that emphasized without words the importance of praying (as silence like that naturally leads to prayer).

 

[ctos]

I don’t know of any evidence that the Church today frowns on contemplative orders, or on contemplation. There are people who do this and that in and around the church buildings and ceremonies, but there are people who show up early to pray, who join third orders to take on additional prayer guidance, and the like.

 

[ctos]

Now at Mass we are always “doing” something whether standing, sitting, kneeling, responding, singing, etc. …

The liturgy is not the time for “contemplative” prayer per se. When one prays the mass in a fully conscious manner with true and active participation, there is not a surfeit of activity.

 

[Genesis315]

Remember when nuns’ vocations were to pray for priests? They didn’t rush around in active ministry. And now that they do, who is praying for our priests?

Some orders are “active” and some are contemplative/cloistered.

 

[Brenda_V]

QUESTION: Is there anything wrong with focusing one’s life on being a contemplative in today’s Catholic Church? The vibes I get nowadays in the parish where I attend Mass is–If you are not deeply into Stewardship, giving of your Time, Talent or Treasure, you are a nominal Catholic and lacking as a Christian. I seem to get this message in most parishes where I’ve attended Mass these days.

When I read you question in your post all I could think of was “isn’t being Contemplative one that fits in with Time and Talent?”

If you are giving of your Treasure (that is monetarily) then if you are in the part of your life that is conducive to Contemplative prayer then you are using your Time to do so as well as your Talent (ability).

Just some thoughts on the subject and if anyone is pushing you to use your time and talent in other ways just gently let them know that in this time of your life you feel called to use your time and talent for prayer and not in an active role at the Parish.

When my girls were little my “time and talent” were spent mostly in raising them and in prayer. Now that they are grown, my time and talent goes mostly to volunteering at Birthright, teaching CCD and “being there” for others from an elderly Avon customer to my close friends and family.

Brenda V.

 

[hermitcrab]

if someone is a true contemplative, the chances are that no one else will know…

The true contemplative orders are those few ever hear about.

Sadly many think that nuns and monks who are enclosed are in some way running away from “real life”…

The Holy Father recently made a statement praising contemplatives and especially hermits; I will try to find it.

Incidentally, Sr Mary Francis, Poor Clare in " A Right to be Merry" points out that Jesus only made that remark because Martha criticised Mary…

ie it was not a direct teaching per se.

All vocations are good; Paul re the different parts of the body.
Given by Jesus

 

[leonie]

It seems to be it is harder to be a contemplative than to be active.

 

[Mintaka]

They may have figured that the contemplatives already knew that they were using their time and talent to build up the Church. Or it may not have occurred to them to mention it – which is a shame, but shouldn’t be taken as a deliberate insult. Also, a lot of people aren’t very knowledgeable in this area, and so hesitate to talk about what they don’t know.

Maybe your parish needs some sort of prayer group or prayer chain. We have Legion of Mary, and whatever they call the Blue Army is everywhere. The Third Orders, too. And of course Perpetual Adoration.

Re: cleaning

Actually, if the Perpetual Adoration chapel gets messy, I would think the priest might want to mention it to the regular adorers. I mean, it’s the Lord’s house; they probably want to keep it tidy more than anybody. Maybe the priest could have been a little more tactful, but how do you tactfully say, “The chapel looks like a tornado hit it”, or any of my mother’s favorite phrases for mess?

 

[hermitcrab]

Not if that is the right way for you in Jesus.

Be assured of that; deeply fulfilling then

It is different is all.

More alone than lonely…

Can you maybe get a copy of that book?

It is pre-Vatican 2 but still will give you some idea…

Sister Mary Francis’;" A right to be merry"

A joy to read…

It seems to be it is harder to be a contemplative than to be active.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

The liturgy is not the time for “contemplative” prayer per se. When one prays the mass in a fully conscious manner with true and active participation, there is not a surfeit of activity.

Maybe not “contemplative” prayer but certainly prayer and periods of silence are a tremendous inducement to that and a good step to becoming more contemplative in one’s everyday life outside the liturgy.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I never knew or experienced that being a contemplative was problem for the Church, in fact, the Pope’s tend to see contemplatives as the backbone of the Church. Without contemplatives, the Church isn’t much more than a social organization.

Which brings me to Mass that I attended in the parish my mother-in-law lives in. We had a memorial Mass for my father-in-law. Anyway, the Mass at this parish resembled more of a protestant get together than a sacred liturgy. First off, the fifth grade class had some sort if event today, and fifth graders did the readings. They were horrible!
Next, the priest didn’t say the Creed.
Also, there are no missilettes in the pews, and the resulting ignorance as to when to, kneel and stand was obvious.
The worst part however, was after Mass ended, while people were either walking out the door, or standing around socializing, the choir came down, and one of the extra-odinary-eucharistic ministers gave the members Communion.
Inotherwords, they didn’t receive during Mass. They received and walked out the door, while still chewing on the host.

BTW, this parish has lots of active ministries and volunteers, However, from my observation, they’re in deep need of contemplatives.

Jim

 

[guanophore]

QUESTION: Is there anything wrong with focusing one’s life on being a contemplative in today’s Catholic Church? The vibes I get nowadays in the parish where I attend Mass is–If you are not deeply into Stewardship, giving of your Time, Talent or Treasure, you are a nominal Catholic and lacking as a Christian. I seem to get this message in most parishes where I’ve attended Mass these days.

No doubt John Paul II and Mother Teresa were active contemplatives, and many other active Marthas in this world are also contemplatives. But there are laity and contemplative religious who “give” of themselves MOSTLY through prayer rather than in marches, holding signs in front of abortion clinics, performing parish lay ministries, etc. I also did these “active things” at one time, but now I feel called to mostly PRAY and be in LOVE with God. I still give of my treasure for the missions, but I do not want to be one of the active missionaries. I no longer wish to serve in a parish ministry, but I’ll gladly give of my treasure. Yet, the other day a priest mentioned how we need to be “involved” rather than just throw money in the basket.

I’m saddened by the message I feel nowadays that if you are a Mary you are doing little for God and Brethern, somehow not living up to Matthew 25.

Hopefully my impression is incorrect. Perhaps the person who sits in front of the tabernacle or monstrance “looking at God while God looks back in an exchange of love”; or the Catholic who prays the beads or the Liturgy of the Hours; or the person who listens to God speak during Lectio with the Scriptures, instead of rushing about in active ministry, is still following a worthwhile Christian Way. Are we still pleasing our Lord, or will He say that He does not know us because He never saw us at the soup kitchen, the bed of the elderly, or holding a sign in front of the abortion clinic? What do you think?

I think the priest was not talking to you. Most Catholics only “practice” their Catholocism for major life events, such as baptisms, marriage, and funerals. Then there are those that line the pews, but are just there to fulfill the Sunday obligation, in hopes to save themselves from hellfire. They have no other religious activity or practice during the week. I think those are the ones Father is talking about, trying to get them to realize that being Catholic means more.

 

[MTD]

Is there anything wrong with focusing one’s life on being a contemplative in today’s Catholic Church?

No, there is nothing wrong about that. However, for a layperson in the world, there is the danger of choosing the contemplative life because it’s more comfortable than carrying out an apostolate. After all, it’s much more peaceful and consoling in the presence of the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament than out in front of an abortion clinic.

My personal recommendation is to take as much time in prayer as you like but don’t give up regular, though not as frequent, active ministry. I also recommend that you focus on active ministry that 1) is really needed in our society, such as abortion, 2) is directed to spiritual, rather than corporal, works of mercy. That way you don’t abandon your duties as a layperson to love your neighbor as yourself, but you can still focus on the contemplative life.

A couple interesting observations:

1. St. Therese of Lisieux, a contemplative nun, makes a very thought-provoking comment about Martha: “It is not Martha’s works that Jesus finds fault with; His divine Mother submitted humbly to these works all through her life since she had to prepare the meals of the Holy Family. It is only the restlessness of His ardent hostess that He willed to correct.” (Story of a Soul)
2. St. Teresa of Avila tells us that the result of the highest possible union with God is an intense thirst for the salvation of souls. You will find, as you get closer to God, that you will love your neighbor so much more and will long to help him reach heaven. Love of God and neighbor go hand in hand.

Remember when nuns’ vocations were to pray for priests? They didn’t rush around in active ministry.

You’re thinking of cloistered nuns; there were also active nuns who had apostolates. However, they had a real community life with community prayer, which is missing in too many active communities today.

And now that they do, who is praying for our priests?

They still do. There are actually quite a few faithful cloistered monasteries out there (at least in the USA; I don’t know about Canada).

We have enough Martha’s.

No. We have too many of the wrong kind of Martha’s. The reason we have abortion right now is because we have too many “good” people doing nothing about it! Murder cries to heaven for vengeance. And now we have homosexual unions, another sin that cries to heaven for vengeance. Our country will not go long without suffering dire consequences for such evil. September 11, 2001 was only the beginning. We need more Martha’s as well as Mary’s.

Back on the topic of the contemplative life: an aspect of contemplative life often overlooked as penance. Cloistered orders always coupled prayer with penance. Our country needs contemplatives devoted to sacrifice. “But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting.” (Matt. 17:20)

Maria