What's wrong with contraception?

[Gorgias]

Condoms aren’t 100%, neither is the withdrawal method.

I’m not claiming that the immorality is found in the efficacy, but rather, in the nature of the act itself.

Would you claim that a person who shot a gun at another is innocent of a crime, only because he wasn’t successful at murdering him?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m not claiming that the immorality is found in the efficacy, but rather, in the nature of the act itself.

Would you claim that a person who shot a gun at another is innocent of a crime, only because he wasn’t successful at murdering him?

So avoiding conception is not evil?

 

[Gorgias]

As someone else said, state them as questions, not as statements. …

That’s not a question. That’s a statement of fact, coming from someone who has labeled himself as Catholic. That’s going to trigger a knee-jerk reaction.

Well… let’s not blame JK for your reaction, ok? You chose your tone, and penned a knee-jerk reaction that reads somewhat uncharitably, didn’t you? It’s not JK’s fault that you did, is it? He didn’t invite you to berate him; you chose that approach, didn’t you?

 

[Debora123]

I’m not claiming that the immorality is found in the efficacy, but rather, in the nature of the act itself.

But that’s what it sounds like you’re saying:

Notice that, if a couple has intercourse during the wife’s “infertile period”, they might still end up pregnant – there might be an egg still present, or the man’s sperm might still be present and viable when the next “fertile period” comes along. Having sex at that time, even if the intention is that pregnancy not take place, is still open to the procreative aspect of marriage.

According to NFP promoters, NFP has a smaller chance of accidental pregnancy than the condom.

 

[HelenRose]

I still don’t completely understand, but the last two posts were helpful.

I has taken me years to come around to understanding why the Church is right on this. I still have some questions that have not been fully answered but I no longer question Blessed Pope John Paul II’s genius on this subject and am so grateful that he was able to articulate why such a difficult concept is the correct and beautiful way to live.

 

[1ke]

Condoms aren’t 100%, neither is the withdrawal method.

Gorgias is well meaning, but this is not the basis of the Church’s teaching.

The Church’s teaching is based on each act of intercourse-- that act must be fully ordered to unity and procreation.

 

[JReducation]

Well… let’s not blame JK for your reaction, ok? You chose your tone, and penned a knee-jerk reaction that reads somewhat uncharitably, didn’t you? It’s not JK’s fault that you did, is it? He didn’t invite you to berate him; you chose that approach, didn’t you?

Actually, I was not referring to myself. My reaction was not a knee-jerk reaction. It is the exact response that I have given to all my seminarians and novices when they pose such questions.

As soon as they say, “Why does the Church have a problem with . . .” I know that they’re in real trouble, because they’re looking at something as the Church’s problem not as the world’s problem, which the Church is trying to correct.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[10gr8kids]

What would you propose to a married couple that absolutely does not have the means to take care of a child for at least a few years? In a circumstance like that you can’t risk that NFP would work unless you were completely celibate for years.

JK8619:
This argument shows how we as a society have lost our trust in God. It always surprises me at how many wonderful Christian people have lost their faith in God to provide for our needs when we are following His will and trying our best to please Him. I struggle with this myself and have to constantly pray for faith and trust in God’s promise to provide. He has never failed us. Pray for trust.

 

[Debora123]

What would you propose to a married couple that absolutely does not have the means to take care of a child for at least a few years? In a circumstance like that you can’t risk that NFP would work unless you were completely celibate for years.

This argument shows how we as a society have lost our trust in God. It always surprises me at how many wonderful Christian people have lost their faith in God to provide for our needs when we are following His will and trying our best to please Him. I struggle with this myself and have to constantly pray for faith and trust in God’s promise to provide. He has never failed us. Pray for trust.

I know you mean well, and I admire you for your faith.

However, I would like to point out that this type of attitude may be counterproductive and even dangerous to some people. I have seen people lose their faith or become atheist when they expect God to always provide for them, and then something along the way goes wrong… making them feel God has “abandoned” them.

It is much wiser to acknowledge that God loves us but to also know that he trusts us to make responsible decisions (based on good sense, not just emotion) and to know that our actions have consequences.

This has nothing to do with contraception, just my 2 cents on the general mentality of “God will provide.”

 

[10gr8kids]

I know you mean well, and I admire you for your faith.

However, I would like to point out that this type of attitude may be counterproductive and even dangerous to some people. I have seen people lose their faith or become atheist when they expect God to always provide for them, and then something along the way goes wrong… making them feel God has “abandoned” them.

It is much wiser to acknowledge that God loves us but to also know that he trusts us to make responsible decisions (based on good sense, not just emotion) and to know that our actions have consequences.

This has nothing to do with contraception, just my 2 cents on the general mentality of “God will provide.”

I can see how this can happen, especially when we confuse our wants for needs. I just like to meditate on Matthew 6:25-34. I definitely do not agree with the so called gospel of prosperity, but I do believe God’s promise to provide for our NEEDS.

 

[Debora123]

I can see how this can happen, especially when we confuse our wants for needs. I just like to meditate on Matthew 6:25-34. I definitely do not agree with the so called gospel of prosperity, but I do believe God’s promise to provide for our NEEDS.

I definitely understand what you are conveying, and it’s a beautiful thought.

There is something that I’ve always wondered about though, when I hear people say God will always provide for our needs:

What do you make of the children in Africa who literally starve to death every day? Are we to believe that the needs of these innocent little ones would be provided for if their parents prayed and lived the faith?

 

[Gorgias]

Gorgias is well meaning, but this is not the basis of the Church’s teaching.

Hmm… not really sure what you read, that makes it seem that I’m at odds with what you’re saying… but whatever – I think we’re on the same page!

NFP isn’t moral and contraception immoral based on their relative efficacy; they’re moral or not, based on whether the acts are open to the purposes of marriage (unity and procreation, as you correctly state). It’s not that any particular act of intercourse must result in procreation, but every act of intercourse must be open to procreation! An act of marriage is open to procreation if it’s in conformity with the way that our bodies operate (which includes the fact that a woman is only periodically fertile).

The Church’s teaching is based on each act of intercourse-- that act must be fully ordered to unity and procreation.

This reminds me of something that JPII said that made people gasp: a married man can commit adultery with his own wife! Yep… and it’s the same interior logic at work, here! If a man has intercourse with his wife, and he’s oblivious to the unitive function of marriage (that is, he’s looking at his wife as just a physical object, and just something that he’s using at the moment for his own physical gratification), then that’s an immoral use of the gift of sexuality! In the same way that contraception degrades the gift of sexual union between man and wife, spousal fornication (or even worse, spousal rape) degrades it, too!

 

[10gr8kids]

I definitely understand what you are conveying, and it’s a beautiful thought.

There is something that I’ve always wondered about though, when I hear people say God will always provide for our needs:

What do you make of the children in Africa who literally starve to death every day? Are we to believe that the needs of these innocent little ones would be provided for if their parents prayed and lived the faith?

I have asked this question many times myself. I don’t understand and the only thing I can think is our ways are not God’s ways. I am not under any illusion that myself or any others will escape suffering by trusting in God, only that I can’t let fear of suffering keep us from doing God’s will. That is why I said in my first post that I struggle with this and have to continually pray for faith. Who knows what God will ask us to suffer through I only know He asks us to trust Him. I have had 8 miscarriages and every time I get pregnant I am scared to death of what will happen. The outcome is not usually what I want, but God has always seen us through and brought us closer to Him. I’m sure this is nothing to the pain of seeing your child slowly starving to death but yet God is still in control.

 

[Gorgias]

Actually, I was not referring to myself.

LOL… so say you…!

My reaction was not a knee-jerk reaction. It is the exact response that I have given to all my seminarians and novices when they pose such questions.

And there’s the rub. JK isn’t a seminarian or novice. If one of yours posed the question in that way, then there’d be a serious disconnect! After all, a vocation is the response of a person to God’s message in his/her life; that response can only flow from first listening to God’s word, then accepting it, and finally, attempting to act upon it. If a person presents themselves as discerning a call to religious life, but cannot accept the teaching of the Church… well, then… “Houston, we have a problem”…!

However, that’s not where JK is, by his own admission. He’s trying to understand the Church’s teachings, but hasn’t yet quite grasped them. To treat him as you would a novice or seminarian, well… that seems a bit over-the-top (and, as it were, uncharitable).

Blessings,

G.

 

[Chiltepin]

Step back a moment from considering this normalcy and look at it for what it really is.

Are man and woman really embracing what it is to become one flesh if they engage in such behavior? You have said you understand why some contraceptives are abortifacients and are more concerned with why condoms are immoral. You are literally putting a barrier between you and your spouse in an act that is supposed to be an expression of you being one flesh.

Have you seen the movie Demolition Man with Sylvester Stalone and Sandrah Bullock? In that movie sex and kissing are illegal. If I remember correctly it has to do with disease concerns. People in the futuristic society put on these helmets and sit across the room from each other. They are entered into a type of virtual reality where their brains have sex with one another but the two of them never even touch. To us that should seem unnatural and ridiculous, but it is just the current contraceptive mentality taken to an extreme.

 

[Nabooru]

Gorgias is well meaning, but this is not the basis of the Church’s teaching.

The Church’s teaching is based on each act of intercourse-- that act must be fully ordered to unity and procreation.

Why? Can we only eat when we need the food? Only shower when I need to, not just because it’s refreshing and I need a pick-me-up? It’s wasting precious water!

To say that “two become one flesh” means no birth control is reading an awful lot into a very short phrase. It also says that what God has brought together, let no man put asunder. So once they start having sex, they can never again be separated? At any rate, there is absolutely no indication that that becoming only counts when it can make a baby.

Btw, can you explain Galatians 4:27:

For it is written: “Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.”

 

[edwest2]

Do people plan before they marry? Do they talk about their expectations anymore? Is fidelity optional? Is No-Fault Divorce the better way as opposed to working things out and going to counseling?

Are big weddings always necessary? Especially if you have a lot of friends and/or relatives who know you can’t afford it, much less a honeymoon?

Why are you getting married in the first place? Just to have sex, and kids? Maybe?

And let’s look at The Pill. Has anyone ever read the warnings associated with taking them?

Here’s Ortho Tri-Cyclen:

dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/archives/fdaDrugInfo.cfm?archiveid=5435

Just scroll down to the WARNINGS heading.

And Loestrin:

loestrin24.com/loestrin/pdf/PPI_loestrin24_fe.pdf

Scroll down to Risks of taking Oral Contraceptives.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Nabooru]

There are also many health benefits to taking contraceptives.

• Re: What’s wrong with contraception?
  Do people plan before they marry? Do they talk about their expectations anymore? Is fidelity optional? Is No-Fault Divorce the better way as opposed to working things out and going to counseling?

Are big weddings always necessary? Especially if you have a lot of friends and/or relatives who know you can’t afford it, much less a honeymoon?

Why are you getting married in the first place? Just to have sex, and kids? Maybe?

And let’s look at The Pill. Has anyone ever read the warnings associated with taking them?

Here’s Ortho Tri-Cyclen:

dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed…archiveid=5435

Just scroll down to the WARNINGS heading.

And Loestrin:

loestrin24.com/loestrin/p…strin24_fe.pdf

Scroll down to Risks of taking Oral Contraceptives.

Peace,
Ed
*

What does this have to do with contraception? I do admit that people date and breed outside of wedlock these days like an epidemic, but that has nothing to do with contraception - except perhaps that they’re being even more irresponsible by not using it. Yes, people plan before marriage, and that’s why they should use contraception. They plan how many children they want and can afford, and when they should have them. To just say “Whatever, we’ll just take things as they come” is a gross lack of mature consideration.

People marry because they love each other and desire to spend the rest of their lives together as a couple bound to one another. To whittle down marriage to simply procreation is doing it a huge disservice.

 

[edwest2]

You are taking an extreme position. Here is Church teaching.

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

What Catholics cannot afford to do before marriage is sitting down with the money and saying, “OK. We’ve got enough for one or two kids, that’s it.” God must be part of the equation as well.

Why are so many young people living together and using contraception? Two incomes, youth and beauty and the ability to buy and enjoy a lot of nice things while you’re young. Who wants to be shackled to even one kid for 18 years?

Peace,
Ed

 

[Nabooru]

You are taking an extreme position. Here is Church teaching.

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

What Catholics cannot afford to do before marriage is sitting down with the money and saying, “OK. We’ve got enough for one or two kids, that’s it.” God must be part of the equation as well.

Why are so many young people living together and using contraception? Two incomes, youth and beauty and the ability to buy and enjoy a lot of nice things while you’re young. Who wants to be shackled to even one kid for 18 years?

Peace,
Ed

I read a book recently by a former Islamic fundamentalist. He described how in Britain, it was the law to have car insurance, but the Muslims in his organization did not. They believed that if God wanted them to get into a car accident and destroy their car or another’s, that was God’s will and they shouldn’t try to “fix” it by having insurance to pay for the damages. It was the will of God that those damages be there. So d