Whats wrong with female altar girls?

[ChemicalBean]

Altar service, in itself, is not going to produce Church vocations. In fact, you really do not need a server to have Mass. The way we do Mass at my campus parish, there is no need for servers.

That said, I was an altar server at my home parish for 9 years and was very good at it. (I am female, btw). I treasure that opportunity to serve, because it was an avenue of grace for me. I got interested in Churchy stuff as a result of serving and desiring to do it well, I pretty much catechized myself out of my own initiative through magazines, newspapers, encyclopedias and the internet (my CCD experience was lousy). I developed a prayer life without realizing it. My serving did not take any “spots” from the boys; there were very few young people in this parish and they simply never signed up.

For those of you who have parishes which are producing lots of seminarians and novices, congrats. Check out your program of catechesis. I bet your increase in vocations have a lot more to do with that than with your program of altar service.

I would be careful in subscribing to this “traditional” line of altar servers = boys and choir = girls. Traditionally, choristers were boys only also. Are we as a church in grave error because we admit women to music ministry? Is the church not blessed by combining the complementary vocal gifts of men and women in praising God?

And so it is with altar service. Servers, male and female, complement each other and enrich the liturgy.

 

[dranzal]

In the present climate of permissiveness and moral grayness, it is already challenging to raise children with moral absolutes. My oldest daughter would make a very fine altar server. However, I will not allow her to serve because boys are preferred. This is a challenge because our liberal deacon is always asking for more altar servers and makes no distinction. No one ever mentions that boys are preferred. Fortunately, my daughter knows instinctively that her father and I study whenever we can and would allow it if it were completely encouraged by the magesterium. We, likewise, do not hold hands though everyone else does and do not “add” gestures though everyone else does. We discuss with the children the reasons for these things.
I am teaching my children that though males and females are equal in dignity, that is where most similarities end. Men and women complement each other like complementary colors on a color wheel (they are opposite).

I would love to see my sons serve and would be very honored if one or more discerns a call to the priesthood. I already have one son in the Church Triumphant:angel1: !

I hope to someday take the children to a Mass/Church where the local bishops try diligently to follow the magesterium rather than try diligently to get around it.

 

[Formosus]

I would be careful in subscribing to this “traditional” line of altar servers = boys and choir = girls. Traditionally, choristers were boys only also.

Actually that is just a half truth. Traditionally there was a schola(men skilled at the art of gregorian chant) whom would chant the propers of the Mass and a choir(made up of both genders) that would lead the lay faithful in the parts of the Mass they could sing(Entrance song, Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, etc).

 

[Brendan]

Altar service, in itself, is not going to produce Church vocations.

This is what the Vatican had to say on that subject (see my link above)

In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since “it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar” (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). **Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations **(cf. ibid.)

Service at the altar might not be the only factor, but the Vatican itself states that it provides “well known assistace” in encouraging future priestly vocations.

And so it is with altar service. Servers, male and female, complement each other and enrich the liturgy.

Do you have any documentation from the Vatican on that CB?

And I would also put the same question to you. How many vocations to the priesthood, diaconate, or religious life (male and female) has your parish produced in the last 5 years?

 

[ComradeAndrei]

My serving did not take any “spots” from the boys; there were very few young people in this parish and they simply never signed up.

Don’t get me wrong, it is good that you developed a better prayer life and such but that is a peripheral to the issue.

The problem with many traditional structures in the Church is that they need to be encouraged and fostered. The same thing happened with Gregorian chant, Latin, etc. When the Church doesn’t actively mandate it, enforce said mandate, and pastors and laymen at the local level don’t actively work to encourage what the Church encourages at the Universal level, you see atrophy.

“It’s too hard to use Gregorian chant…that is why we just sing Haugen & Haas…” Well, its true that you can’t just whip out any old chant piece and expect a congregation to sing along. But, we are supposed to be fostering real scholas and choirs (as per Tra le Sollecitudini and more recent statements by the Universal Church, the Holy Fathers (JPII and BXVI) etc.) and not just a lowest common denominator. The lie that “full and active participation” means that everyone should sing everything is finally (but slowly) being challenged. However, point being, in the meantime between VII and today, the damage has been done. The work of the Liturgical Movement (the legit one that had the support of Pope St. Pius X and other orthodox prelates and laymen) was severely curtailed by populists clamoring for the lowest common denominator.

Same thing can be said for altar boys. Why don’t boys want to serve at the altar? For a number of reasons, not exclusively girls, but that really doesn’t help. When you have modernists trying to foist their idea of “FutureChurch” on the altar boy program by making it egalitarian-it falls apart. There is no comraderie, no real discipline (training is abysmal), the uniform (so to say) lacks panache, etc. etc.

These laudible traditions we had were like delicate plants, you can’t just come in, throw them out of the greenhouse, soak 'em with a hose once in a while, and then expect them to survive. Doesn’t work that way.

 

[netmilsmom]

And so it is with altar service. Servers, male and female, complement each other and enrich the liturgy.

Kind of a ying/yang thing?

 

[Brendan]

My serving did not take any “spots” from the boys; there were very few young people in this parish and they simply never signed up…

OK, a couple of suggestions for your pastor.

First of all, lot’s of homily promoting large families and a heavy articulation of the Church’s teachings on contraception.

Secondly,

Form an altar boy cadre that is open to all boys in the parish 6 years old to 20.

Have the young boys carry candles in procession. Have the 10-13 year old accept the offetory gifts and hold the patens at Communion.

Have the older boys act as ‘shepards’ to the 6-9 year olds, assist the priest as Sacristan, and read the readings. Give the older boys distinctive clothes (perhaps a cassock and surplice) to allow them to be recognized by the young servers.

 

[JamieMc]

And how instantly the Bishops seem to comply when such an “abuse” is accepted by the Vatican, however, when a “widespread” and “generous” application of the Traditional Latin Mass is called for, what do we get? One or maybe two TLM’s within a given diocese, sometimes none at all? I remember the first indult Mass I attended and the posture, exact movements and actions of the altar boys. I thought to myself, "this is like the Green Beret version of “servers”. It’s no wonder young boys/men had such a calling to that service and thus the stream of new candidates for the Priesthood.

Isn’t ironic how we, who rely on the magisterium to teach us everything on faith and morals and explaining Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and we have the faith to trust in them even if we don’t completely understand them but we get in an uproar when mother Church changes a discipline or a tradition (small t)?

Obidience is obidience is obidience. You wonder why so many catholics have doubts about things such major things that affect their lives as birth control but then you get your bowels in an uproar about the Church about changing tradition. You think the Church is right about all the big things but can be wrong about the small things. I have faith that my church is right about everything, even when I can’t explain why.

Female alterservers may have started out as an abuse, but it is acceptable now. If tomorrow they say it’s not right then I will accept that. But it’s tradtion (small t) and they have the power to change that.

As for myself, I have my daughter be an alterserver because the church pays her tuition and sends her to school. I believe, since the opportunity is there, that she should serve and give something back.

 

[Brendan]

Obidience is obidience is obidience.

That’s the second time I have heard that. And I will also pose the question to you.

Were exactly is any disobedience? As I pointed out before, the Vatican allowed altar girls, but with the provisio that no priest be obligated to use them,

So if a priest doesn’t use altar girls, is he being disobedient.

In addition, the Code of Canon Law allows a Catholic to register and attend Mass at ANY parish. If a Catholic chooses to attend Mass only at parishes that do not use altar girls, is that being disobedient?

Female alterservers may have started out as an abuse, but it is acceptable now.

No one is doubting that is is accepted or allowed. What we are discussing is if it is good idea. The Vatican allows us to do so.

As for myself, I have my daughter be an alterserver because the church pays her tuition and sends her to school. I believe, since the opportunity is there, that she should serve and give something back.

Is that the only way for her to give back, is it the most effective way of giving to both the parish and the Church as a whole. That is what we are discussing.

 

[netmilsmom]

Form an altar boy cadre that is open to all boys in the parish 6 years old to 20.

We start at four, don’t we?
I love seeing the littlest ones trying so hard!

 

[djrakowski]

We start at four, don’t we?
I love seeing the littlest ones trying so hard!

Yeah, some of them look awfully young. Unless they’re very small 6-year olds, I think you may be right about that starting age.

Even more than seeing the littlest ones try so hard, I love how the older ones guide, instruct and correct them. Ya just gotta love our parish!

 

[netmilsmom]

Yeah, some of them look awfully young. Unless they’re very small 6-year olds, I think you may be right about that starting age.

Even more than seeing the littlest ones try so hard, I love how the older ones guide, instruct and correct them. Ya just gotta love our parish!

In someways, this is what the Pro-Altar Girl people are missing. Having an older girl guide a young boy is like their mom doing it.
Having an young man guiding is like a big brother.

I just don’t get it.

If just all the altar boys showed up for a mass, it would fill the main. We must be doing something right.

 

[djrakowski]

In someways, this is what the Pro-Altar Girl people are missing. Having an older girl guide a young boy is like their mom doing it.
Having an young man guiding is like a big brother.

I just don’t get it.

If just all the altar boys showed up for a mass, it would fill the main. We must be doing something right.

Hey, at least with me, you’re preaching to the choir.

The older altar boys are fine examples of how Christian young men should behave. I’ve never seen even one questionable activity from any of them, and I’ve often been led to wonder if they have strong Catholic dads as role models.

 

[netmilsmom]

I’ve often been led to wonder if they have strong Catholic dads as role models.

Like you!

 

[Brendan]

Hey, at least with me, you’re preaching to the choir.

The older altar boys are fine examples of how Christian young men should behave. I’ve never seen even one questionable activity from any of them, and I’ve often been led to wonder if they have strong Catholic dads as role models.

The father of the Altar Servers Captain is being ordained to the Diaconate this year. How’s that for a model of service

We’ve got our “Gospels in the Lectionary” class together.

And we start 'em at 4? Cool It IS really great watching the older guys watch over and guide the really young ones.

 

[Brendan]

FYI,

Just before Mass, as the servers gather to form in procession, they all recite this prayer

Server’s Prayer Before Mass

Open my mouth, O Lord, to bless Thy Holy Name. Cleanse my heart from all evil and distracting thoughts. Enlighten my understanding, enflame my will, that I might serve worthly at Thy Holy Altar.

O Mary, Mother of Christ the High Priest, obtain for me the most important grace of knowing my vocation in life.
Grant me a true spirit of faith and humble obedience, so that I may ever behold the priest as a representative of God, and willingly follow Him in the Way, the Truth and the Life of Christ.

Amen

 

[djrakowski]

FYI,

Just before Mass, as the servers gather to form in procession, they all recite this prayer

Brendan, I’ve overheard bits and pieces of this prayer, and I’ve never heard it at any other parish (but then again, before conversion, I wasn’t paying attention the way I do now).

 

[djrakowski]

The father of the Altar Servers Captain is being ordained to the Diaconate this year. How’s that for a model of service

We’ve got our “Gospels in the Lectionary” class together.

And we start 'em at 4? Cool It IS really great watching the older guys watch over and guide the really young ones.

If he isn’t one already, your son would make an excellent server. He’s a little gentleman, if you don’t mind me saying so.

 

[djrakowski]

BTW, Brendan and netmil(name removed by moderator), are you finding it as amusing as I am that this thread has turned into somewhat of a SS C&M gabfest?

 

[Brendan]

If he isn’t one already, your son would make an excellent server. He’s a little gentleman, if you don’t mind me saying so.

Yes, he’s been a server since we’ve joined the parish. He was Sooo exicited when he was asked to hold the patens during Communion. He also has the bells down pretty well now to ( epiclisis, both elevations, and when the priest Communicates)

Thanks for the nice complement, he is a really good son and big brother to his sisters