What's Wrong with Freemasonry?

[DominvsVobiscvm]

No, I’m not being sarcastic. I really want to know.

I don’t understand the objection that the organization is secret, or interreligious, and this fosters indifferentism. Freemasonry admits members if they believe in a deity. What’s wrong with this? Also, what’s wrong with an organization having rituals?

That these rituals are actually Satanic is not something I’ve ever seen published by a mainstream and dcumented source, Catholic or otherwise. It’s just Jack Chick and rad-Trad types that make these claims.

I really don’t see how membership in this organization, and participation in the rituals, is any different from an interfaith Assissi Pow-Wow. If that’s okay, why isn’t Freemasonry?

(Assuming that one’s Lodge is not anti-Catholic . . .)

 

[Maggie]

From the Vatican’s own website…

“The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.”

Therefore, it doesn’t matter why.

Do we want to figure out under exactly which circumstances it would no longer be grave sin to murder or have an abortion, or do we want to refrain from coming anywhere near the line so as to remain as close as humanly possible to the state of grace to which God calls us? If someone does something and didn’t know at the time that it was sinful, they repent, and cease. So if someone joined, being Catholic but not knowing it was a grave sin, they would only have to leave the association, no harm, no foul, and go to confession.

I mean, this isn’t that different than abortion (don’t everybody jump all over me on that one) you either believe that the choice is to obey the Truth as handed down by the Church or reject the Church, or you believe that you may pick and choose yet remain a member. You have a choice to be a member of the Church. Once you accept that she is the repository of Truth however, you do have a duty to yourself and God to follow to the best of your fallen human capacity and to not intentionally turn aside while claiming fidelity.

 

[retina_md]

Here’s a link to the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia entry on the Freemasons:

newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm

My perception is that currently in the US, the Masons are predominently a fraternal organization and that most Masons have little knowledge of their history. Having said this, membership in the Masons is clearly inconsistent with membership in the Church.

 

[Servulus]

No fewer than 8 popes have condemned Fremasonry. The most recent, as far as I know, is the encyclical “Humanum Genus”, issued in 1884 by Pope Leo XIII. Here is one passage:

“Candidates are generally commanded to promise—nay, with a special oath, to swear—that they will never, to any person, at any time or in any way, make known the members, the passes, or the subjects discussed. Thus, with a fraudulent external appearance, and with a style of simulation which is always the same, the Freemasons, like the Manichees of old, strive, as far as possible, to conceal themselves, and to admit no witnesses but their own members. As a convenient manner of concealment, they assume the character of literary men and scholars associated for purposes of learning. They speak of their zeal for a more cultured refinement, and of their love for the poor; and they declare their one wish to be the amelioration of the condition of the masses, and to share with the largest possible number all the benefits of civil life. Were these purposes aimed at in real truth, they are by no means the whole of their object. Moreover, to be enrolled, it is necessary that the candidates promise and undertake to be thenceforward strictly obedient to their leaders and masters with the utmost submission and fidelity, and to be in readiness to do their bidding upon the slightest expression of their will; or, if disobedient, to submit to the direst penalties and death itself. As a fact, if any are judged to have betrayed the doings of the sect or to have resisted commands given, punishment is inflicted on them not infrequently, and with so much audacity and dexterity that the assassin very often escapes the detection and penalty of his crime.”

The entire document is available in EWTN’s online library. It’s worth reading.

 

[OhioBob]

I’m not sure whether this site is run by “Jack Chick and rad-Trad types” or not, but it sure is some scary stuff:

freemasonrywatch.org/index.html
:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

 

[Craig]

Here’s some good stuff about Freemasons.

 

[mrS4ntA]

DominvsVobiscvm:

No, I’m not being sarcastic. I really want to know.

I don’t understand the objection that the organization is secret, or interreligious, and this fosters indifferentism. Freemasonry admits members if they believe in a deity. What’s wrong with this? Also, what’s wrong with an organization having rituals?

That these rituals are actually Satanic is not something I’ve ever seen published by a mainstream and dcumented source, Catholic or otherwise. It’s just Jack Chick and rad-Trad types that make these claims.

I really don’t see how membership in this organization, and participation in the rituals, is any different from an interfaith Assissi Pow-Wow. If that’s okay, why isn’t Freemasonry?

(Assuming that one’s Lodge is not anti-Catholic . . .)

Rome stated that one who joined Masonry excommunicate himself. Auto Excommunication, that’s why.

“When Rome speaks, the matter is settled.”

 

[Hans_A]

Prior to becoming Catholic, I was a member of freemasonry. The oaths taken forbade discussing the rituals, signs, passwords and handshakes with non-masons. This was due to the promise that a mason will always assist a fellow mason in distress, this includes monetarily. The masons did not want non-mason conartists taking advantage of this charity. There was nothing satanic in the rituals. The organization is not secret, because if you ask a mason if they belong they will answer yes.

After converting and learning of the Church’s opposition to freemasonry, I left and joined the Knights of Columbus. I did not leave because I thought that freemasonry is incompatible with Catholicism, but because Holy Mother Church said so. I will take a moment here to digress and ask that every male of at least 18 years in age that is faithful to the Church to please join the Knights of Columbus council in their parish. For more info on the Knights please visit here . I will also point out that when I became a knight I made a promise not to tell non-members of the initiation ritual or the “password” we give to fellow knights.

I would ask that venom not be spewed at these men. The members I knew were good men, just led astray. Instead, we must inform them of the truth. Not just that which states that freemasonry is wrong, but the larger Truth which is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

In Christ,
Hans

 

[SPOKENWORD]

DominvsVobiscvm:

No, I’m not being sarcastic. I really want to know.

I don’t understand the objection that the organization is secret, or interreligious, and this fosters indifferentism. Freemasonry admits members if they believe in a deity. What’s wrong with this? Also, what’s wrong with an organization having rituals?

That these rituals are actually Satanic is not something I’ve ever seen published by a mainstream and dcumented source, Catholic or otherwise. It’s just Jack Chick and rad-Trad types that make these claims.

I really don’t see how membership in this organization, and participation in the rituals, is any different from an interfaith Assissi Pow-Wow. If that’s okay, why isn’t Freemasonry?

(Assuming that one’s Lodge is not anti-Catholic . . .)

DV ,This is one of the few times that JACK CHICK really speaks the Truth about freemasonery. You cant serve two masters,you will love one and hate the other. P/s Why does a banned member on this board still post here? Are you not subject to authority?

 

[kjvail]

Maggie:

From the Vatican’s own website…

“The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.”

Therefore, it doesn’t matter why.

Do we want to figure out under exactly which circumstances it would no longer be grave sin to murder or have an abortion, or do we want to refrain from coming anywhere near the line so as to remain as close as humanly possible to the state of grace to which God calls us? If someone does something and didn’t know at the time that it was sinful, they repent, and cease. So if someone joined, being Catholic but not knowing it was a grave sin, they would only have to leave the association, no harm, no foul, and go to confession.

I mean, this isn’t that different than abortion (don’t everybody jump all over me on that one) you either believe that the choice is to obey the Truth as handed down by the Church or reject the Church, or you believe that you may pick and choose yet remain a member. You have a choice to be a member of the Church. Once you accept that she is the repository of Truth however, you do have a duty to yourself and God to follow to the best of your fallen human capacity and to not intentionally turn aside while claiming fidelity.

I’m curious about this myself - face it it is not a clear cut as abortion or murder or any of the other wrongs you list. I accept the Church’s instruction, but since every instruction in the faith I have see so far has included a ‘why’ I would like to see this one too.

My father - in - law is a 33rd degree Mason (that’s as high as you get), he’s a good man there’s nothing sinister about him. He had a distinguished career in the Navy, retired at mid-rank and works for a state-employment agency now. Which is all to say he’s as normal a 50’ish man as you can get. Mason’s accept Catholics, why do Catholics not accept masons?

 

[Maggie]

Well, you either have to believe their reasons (as listed at the Vatican site, being non-congruent with Catholicism) or not. I don’t know what to tell you on that one… The friend who started me on my journey in Catholicism said it best… I have a duty to understand to the best of my ability. If, however, I find that I can’t, I still have a duty to obey. The teachings are correct and it is my understanding that is insufficient. I don’t know the reasons, and to say the reasons without first hand knowledge given that so many know masons who are good people seems uncharitable. So I can only say that since the Church finds it unacceptable I would have to say that if one found themselves in the position to choose, the choice between Truth and fraternity should be clear. Other than that, there is no condemnation. It certainly doesn’t say you mayn’t associate with them or that they are evil people. Only that you may not belong to both. Perhaps it is a matter of serving two masters, I don’t know. Being female, it doesn’t matter to me a whole lot more than whether priests should wear green or red, I’m not going to ever have to worry about which matches my skin tone .

 

[dcmac]

I am both a third degree brother knight of the Knights of Columbus and a fourth degree brother Hibernian of the Ancient Order of Hibernians (Irish Catholic Order founded in America in 1834, but established in Ireland in the late 16th century in response to the terrors of the Anglo-Saxon Protestant Reformation in Ireland). A noted historical fact is that Fr. McGivnney was a Hibernian, as were his father and brothers. Indeed the Knights are modeled on the AOH, except for the fact that the Knights are open to all Catholic men, whilst the AOH is only open to Irish Catholic men…but I digress.

The rituals of each of these Catholic Orders are secret from all but those whom are members, excepting the Catholic Clergy. I think that the key is the last part, “excepting Catholic Clergy”. So, in addition to being rooted in Catholicism and the defense thereof and not in Paganism, as is Freemasonry, they also make provision for the secrecy to be kept only to members, excepting the Catholic Clergy. Those two things are very big differences indeed.

The same can not be said of Freemasonry.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,

Donnchadh

 

[hawkeye]

DominvsVobiscvm:

No, I’m not being sarcastic. I really want to know.

I don’t understand the objection that the organization is secret, or interreligious, and this fosters indifferentism. Freemasonry admits members if they believe in a deity. What’s wrong with this? Also, what’s wrong with an organization having rituals?

That these rituals are actually Satanic is not something I’ve ever seen published by a mainstream and dcumented source, Catholic or otherwise. It’s just Jack Chick and rad-Trad types that make these claims.

I really don’t see how membership in this organization, and participation in the rituals, is any different from an interfaith Assissi Pow-Wow. If that’s okay, why isn’t Freemasonry?

(Assuming that one’s Lodge is not anti-Catholic . . .)

I read that freemasons believe in God but secertly work against him, by promising us worldly goods under the pretext of helping their neigbour.
In the line of money $$$$$$$ I have more information on this but don’t want to break forum rules. freemasonrywatch.org/index.html Jesus rejected this world when He was born in a stable.

There is probably enough in this site for most people to comprehend.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Hans A.:

… I will also point out that when I became a knight I made a promise not to tell non-members of the initiation ritual or the “password” we give to fellow knights …

I am an ACTIVE 4th degree Knight and I am unaware of any “passwords” given to fellow knights. The “initiation ritual” are not revealed to non-members so that their impact can be more firmly felt by the knights signing up. I will tell you that if I would have known what to expect, it would have had less of an impact on me and while I would have liked to have known about what happens ahead of time, I’m glad that I didn’t know because it made each of the degrees that much more impacting. Additionally, the oath taken by the Knights clearly state that they will subject themselves to all lawful civil and church authority with regards to their membership in the Knights of Columbus.

kjvail:

… Mason’s accept Catholics, why do Catholics not accept masons …

Yes, there have even been priests and bishops who have been members of the Masons. The reason is that one of the Mssons chief goals is to overthrow the Catholic church. The Masons’ 18th degree is about as anti-Catholic as one can get. What better way to overthrow the Catholic church than from within? With Masons as priests and even Bishops. Can you imagine what might happen if a Mason was elected to be Pope?
Hans A.:

… I would ask that venom not be spewed at these men. The members I knew were good men, just led astray …

Yes, this is true. The early level degrees that most members take do not reveil what goes on at the tip. Therefore, most members think that they are doing good things. But just as a frog will jump out of a pot of hot water to protect himself, that same frog will remain in a pot of cold water even if that water is heated up and starts to boil because the change is a gradual one. The same approach is used within the Masons. As a mason advances from one degree to another, more & more things are revealed to them but because it is done so gradually, most masons accept it. Then by the time they reach the final degrees, it is revealed that Satan is their god and all of the pledges and oaths and loyalities are made to him.

If what was revealed during the final degrees was revealed during the early degrees, most members would RUN out the door but it is done SLOWLY over time and over the course of 33 degree levels so that when a member is at that point, they are ready to accept it.

 

[Hans_A]

Yes, this is true. The early level degrees that most members take do not reveil what goes on at the tip. Therefore, most members think that they are doing good things. But just as a frog will jump out of a pot of hot water to protect himself, that same frog will remain in a pot of cold water even if that water is heated up and starts to boil because the change is a gradual one. The same approach is used within the Masons. As a mason advances from one degree to another, more & more things are revealed to them but because it is done so gradually, most masons accept it. Then by the time they reach the final degrees, it is revealed that Satan is their god and all of the pledges and oaths and loyalities are made to him.

Sir Knight, is this statement from experience or from what you have read? Before leaving the masons, I had gone through all 32 degrees and was never told that Satan was my god. If what you are saying is true then please explain how it was revealed.

The “initiation ritual” are not revealed to non-members so that their impact can be more firmly felt by the knights signing up. I will tell you that if I would have known what to expect, it would have had less of an impact on me and while I would have liked to have known about what happens ahead of time, I’m glad that I didn’t know because it made each of the degrees that much more impacting.

I know the reason why we don’t reveal the ritual, that is our prerogative. The same goes for the masons. My point in the previous post was that we need to show masons the truth with charity in our hearts and not contempt.

Hans

 

[Sir_Knight]

Hans A.:

Sir Knight, is this statement from experience or from what you have read? Before leaving the masons, I had gone through all 32 degrees and was never told that Satan was my god. If what you are saying is true then please explain how it was revealed …

I based my statement on what I have read in two books and what I have seen on numerous websites. If, as a former 32nd degree member and a brother knight, you tell me that I am wrong, then I will accept that and stand correct.

However, if I am indeed wrong, perhaps you can speculate where these false statements come from and why 8 Popes have prohibitted Roman Catholics from becoming Masons?

 

[Maggie]

Again, I think it important that we keep clear that the organization itself is what is prohibited and the men who belong not. I have heard from the many threads on this subject a number of people defend those members that they know. I do not believe that the church calls us to reject those members, but it does call us not to become members and it asks those joining the church to renounce membership. It seems important to me that obedience to the Church and Her teachings is a key part of the discussion. The reasons may or may not be clear, and they may not match our experiences with individual members, but it is the organization as a whole which the Church decries, and just as there are many kind hearted and well intentioned Protestants, we would still wish them to become members of the Catholic Church, and therefore renounce those teachings that prevent them from doing so. One cannot serve two masters, and any organization that requires an oath separate or distinct from the Church would, regardless of it’s sincere intent, separate us from the Church.

 

[Hans_A]

Sir Knight:

I based my statement on what I have read in two books and what I have seen on numerous websites. If, as a former 32nd degree member and a brother knight, you tell me that I am wrong, then I will accept that and stand correct.

However, if I am indeed wrong, perhaps you can speculate where these false statements come from and why 8 Popes have prohibitted Roman Catholics from becoming Masons?

Brother Sir Knight, I could show you a plethora of websites and books that say Catholics worship Mary, the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope is the antichrist. The same tactics the Fundamentalist use against us are used against freemasons. Even though I may agree that freemasons are wrong, I do not condone these tactics. The only documents I accept wholly are those written by the Church herself or those who have obtained the Nihil Obstat or Imprimatur

My understating of why the Church forbids Catholics from joining freemasonry is: Freemasons in countries other than the U.S. have tried and still try to overthrow the Church, The oath given by freemasons, The church considers freemasonry as a secret society and Freemasonry condones false religions by allowing those who are not Christian, but believe in one god, to be members.

In Christ,
Hans

 

[Servulus]

The various papal documents which address this issue are thorough and specific in explaining the errors involved in Freemasonry. Please allow an example:
In Humanum Genus, Pope Leo XIII explains that, at its heart, Freemasonry is a form of naturalism. He then goes on to say:
“12. Now, the fundamental doctrine of the naturalists, which they sufficiently make known by their very name, is that human nature and human reason ought in all things to be mistress and guide. Laying this down, they care little for duties to God, or pervert them by erroneous and vague opinions. For they deny that anything has been taught by God; they allow no dogma of religion or truth which cannot be understood by the human intelligence, nor any teacher who ought to be believed by reason of his authority. And since it is the special and exclusive duty of the Catholic Church fully to set forth in words truths divinely received, to teach, besides other divine helps to salvation, the authority of its office, and to defend the same with perfect purity, it is against the Church that the rage and attack of the enemies are principally directed.
13. In those matters which regard religion let it be seen how the sect of the Freemasons acts, especially where it is more free to act without restraint, and then let any one judge whether in fact it does not wish to carry out the policy of the naturalists. *By a long and persevering labor, they endeavor to bring about this result—namely, that the teaching office and authority of the Church may become of no account in the civil State; * and for this same reason they declare to the people and contend that Church and State ought to be altogether disunited. By this means they reject from the laws and from the commonwealth the wholesome influence of the Catholic religion; and they consequently imagine that States ought to be constituted without any regard for the laws and precepts of the Church.”

The italics were added for emphasis. Do we see evidence of this effort in our own society today?

 

[Jeffrey]

Everything I have read about the freemasons…points to satanism. Now…the ppl low on the totem pole so to speak, dont know what the higher degrees are doing…and actually believe they are doing good…but…33rd is as bad as you can get in that org. More than likely he just didn’t tell ya.

Here is some info I found out about the masons:

There is a Masonic organization out there most of you know nothing of, even if you are a 33rd Degree Mason.
We have constantly received emails from Freemasons who are absolutely anguished over our articles depicting Masonry as being Satanic. They honestly proclaim to us that this is NOT the situation in their Lodge; further, they say, they are 32nd or 33rd Degree, and would certainly know what Freemasonry is and what it is not; and, they boldly proclaim: Masonry is NOT Satanic.

We are both right: You are right when you claim that Freemasonry is certainly not Satanic as you have practiced it in your Lodge. And we are right when we say that Freemasonry is Satanic to the core, and is striving mightily to produce the New Age Christ [Antichrist].

How, you ask, can we both be right? Simply put, Freemasonry is an organization within an organization. One organization is deliberately lied to and mislead with false interpretations, while the inner organization knows the spiritual Truth of Freemasonry, and embraces it with heart, soul, and mind.

**DESCRIPTION OF THE ORGANIZATION OF FREEMASONRY

**Let us hear Masonic author Manly P. Hall describe this two-dimensional organization of Freemasonry. Masonry is comprised of two distinctly different organizations, one visible and one invisible. Hall describes this two-level organization: [Hall was honored by The **Scottish Rite Journal, who called him ‘The Illustrious Manly P. Hall’ in Sept, 1990, and further called him ‘Masonry’s Greatest Philosopher’, saying “The world is a far better place because of Manly Palmer Hall, and we are better persons for having known him and his work”]. This is what Manly P. Hall said: