Whats wrong with having five wives

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Do Catholics have a philosophical argument for why having more than one wife is wrong.

I am not interested in statements of faith.

God is not arbitrary: there is a rational basis behind all moral commandments.
 
Do Catholics have a philosophical argument for why having more than one wife is wrong.

I am not interested in statements of faith.

God is not arbitrary: there is a rational basis behind all moral commandments.
Presumably, since the Catholic marriage is supposed to be symbolic of the relationship between Christ and the Church, there is some sort of notion that there is one Christ, one true Church, and therefore one man, one woman is the ideal of marriage.

Other than that, I can only think of practical considerations. Back in the day (and actually even now, in some parts of the world) when it was the responsibility of the husband to provide for his wife and children, it required (and still does require) a large amount of wealth to support more than one wife and the multiples of offspring that were likely to result from such a domestic arrangement. In fact, that is one of the main social arguments against polygamy - that those who are not wealthy are also denied the opportunity to marry and have children, whilst those men who have sufficient wealth accumulate more and more wives. That leads to large groups of young men who feel deprived and discontented with their lot.

I do appreciate the feminist critique of polygamy - it does, as it’s played out in a practical sense, treat women as little more than chattel. But if we expand this out to say that it’s likewise okay for a woman to have more than one husband, then this problem ceases to be. Although I suspect that if one were to propose to any group, such as some Mormons or Muslims, who actually practise polygamy, that if men have the right to have multiple wives, women should have the right to have multiple husbands, they would be either deeply offended or profoundly confused. So I suspect there is a solid foundation of sexism bound up in the idea of polygamy.

There is also a belief - one extending beyond the doctrines of Christian faith, I should say - that the love between one man and one woman is so sacred and so important and so…well, romantic, that any interference with that is somehow sacreligious. That loving more than one person in the romantic/amorous/sexual sense is diluting the intensity of emotional attachment that is supposed to exist between a husband and wife. This is nonsense, of course, and leads to such absurd permutations as “serial monogamy” and people marrying and divorcing several times during the course of their lives, just because of the expectation that “one man and one woman” is the most desirable ideal.

So, in and of itself, I don’t think there’s necessarily a rational ground for supposing monogamy to be the only desirable, or even the most desirable, foundation for human families. There is an obviously sexist basis to polygamy as it has historically been practised, but if the concept is extended to polyandry, or even varying arrangements of men and women in loving intimate partnerships, that ceases to be an issue.
 
The “honey-do” list would be a killer…😃

Peace
James
👍

Even if there were no religious prescription for monogamy, the above reason alone would be sufficient. Most men can’t handle the one wife that they have; how’re they gonna handle five? :bigyikes:
 
👍

Even if there were no religious prescription for monogamy, the above reason alone would be sufficient. Most men can’t handle the one wife that they have; how’re they gonna handle five? :bigyikes:
because it seems to me that these modern polygamy relationships the women run everything. The man doesn’t have to provide for all, some of the women work and they pool their resources.

Looks to me like the only reason the man is even there is so the women can have children.
 
Other than that, I can only think of practical considerations. Back in the day (and actually even now, in some parts of the world) when it was the responsibility of the husband to provide for his wife and children, it required (and still does require) a large amount of wealth to support more than one wife and the multiples of offspring that were likely to result from such a domestic arrangement. In fact, that is one of the main social arguments against polygamy - that those who are not wealthy are also denied the opportunity to marry and have children, whilst those men who have sufficient wealth accumulate more and more wives. That leads to large groups of young men who feel deprived and discontented with their lot.
I think death might have been a factor too. In ancient times men would die in wars and in work more than women. At the same time women would die in childbirth. But who died more? If more men died in wars and work than women in childbirth then polygamy could solve a practical problem of having more women than men.
I do appreciate the feminist critique of polygamy - it does, as it’s played out in a practical sense, treat women as little more than chattel. But if we expand this out to say that it’s likewise okay for a woman to have more than one husband, then this problem ceases to be. Although I suspect that if one were to propose to any group, such as some Mormons or Muslims, who actually practise polygamy, that if men have the right to have multiple wives, women should have the right to have multiple husbands, they would be either deeply offended or profoundly confused. So I suspect there is a solid foundation of sexism bound up in the idea of polygamy.
Arguments I’ve encountered from feminists say that all cultures, except modern, lead to women being treated as chattel. According to feminists Christian monogamy had no advantage in this realm over polygamy.
 
The “honey-do” list would be a killer…😃

Peace
James
👍 Didn’t you also say, in similar thread, something along the lines that you didn’t want to hear you are wrong by more than one woman? Someone said something like that. It was a great comment as well.
 
👍 Didn’t you also say, in similar thread, something along the lines that you didn’t want to hear you are wrong by more than one woman? Someone said something like that. It was a great comment as well.
Nope - It wasn’t me…

In seriousness to the OP…

I have to say that if we remove religious elements from the equation then all “marriage”, essentially, is a “domestic partnership”. In point of fact, if one looks at how marriage is handled in the civil society and courts, it is handled very much like “contract law”…With allowances for children etc. tossed in.
As viewed from the perspective of contract law, any combination or number could be seen as a valid “domestic partnership” - depending of course on the cultural norms of a given society.

I’m not a philosopher, so I really can’t speak to the “philosophical” arguments per se, but Sair has offered some good and practical considerations from the historical.

Peace
James
 
You are all giving me practical reasons not to be in a marriage with more than one woman.

But I am asking why its “wrong”.

Yes God says its wrong, but why does God say its wrong.
 
You are all giving me practical reasons not to be in a marriage with more than one woman.

But I am asking why its “wrong”.

Yes God says its wrong, but why does God say its wrong.
Have you considered that God says it’s wrong precisely because of all these practical reasons?

Peace
James
 
Five mothers-in-law
:D:D:D:D:D:D

As Sair writes, a man needed (and still needs) to be very wealthy to support many wives. Curiously, in the 1920s, when Kamal Ataturk was cleaning up the Muslim religion in Turkey he declared Polygamy to be illegal. It was the WOMEN who hit the streets to protest!! The custom had been that when a man took this year’s model as his second wife, the first wife became head of the house and gratefully handed over bedroom duties to the new bimbo. And so on and so on, each old wife taking up responsibilities under No. 1. They LOVED the system…😉
Of course in the Old Testament polygamy was Kosher. A read of Genesis 29 and 30 is revealing as Jacob’s two wives, Leah and Rachel, battled with each other. When they stopped having Children they gave their maidservants to Jacob to sleep with and bear children for them by proxy. There was that curious custom of babies being born “in the Lap” i.e. the barren wife would sit on the lap of the maidservant while the baby was being born. Also Abraham and Saraiwho didn’t believe that Sarai could conceive some 50 years after menopause; Sarai laughed so God renamed her Sarah, the one who laughs! and gave her maidservant, Hagar, for Abraham to sleep with and Ishmael was born in Sarah’s lap. After the 90-year-old Sarah produced Isaac Hagar and Ishnael were kicked out and God prophecied to Hagar that Ishmael’s offspring would be forever enemies with Abraham’s seed. Shades of 9/11.
In Deuteronomy 24:1, Moses allows a man whose wife becomes DISPLEASING to him to write her a bill of divorce. She then had to leave the marital tent at once in the clothes she was wearing and nothing else. I believe civil or religious marriage ceremonies were later raised to afford some protection for women. I don’t know when marriages, per se, were instituted (Deuteronomy and Leviticus go into nit-picking detail about the various laws, blessings and curses, but no mention of marriage. If anybody has researched this I’d love to know.
However, we know there were marriage ceremonies in the New Testament (e.g. Cana) and it seems monogamy had been introduced by Jesus’ time.
 
God is not arbitrary: there is a rational basis behind all moral commandments.
I’m not sure how I feel about the wording of this. It seems to hint that reason is something outside of God, with which God is careful to act in accordance. On the flip side, I agree that more often than not when people reject religious commandments they suffer practical consequences.
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Sair:
I do appreciate the feminist critique of polygamy - it does, as it’s played out in a practical sense, treat women as little more than chattel. But if we expand this out to say that it’s likewise okay for a woman to have more than one husband, then this problem ceases to be.
So it’s only ok to treat women as little more than chattel if men are treated as little more than chattel as well?
 
I believe it is because God does not approve of women being treated as objects to be acquired. If men do not want to be treated this way, why would women?

The comment about women protesting at the end of polygamy in Turkey was the fact that it would leave thousands of women, who were in such relationships, without a husband. They would be damaged goods as they would be divorced and no longer a virgin. They would also have to leave their children behind. It was not that women thought that polygamy was a good thing. Younger wives (often as young as 9) were treated as little more than slaves by the older wife unless the husband was infatuated, in which case the other wives would make the younger wife’s life hell. Situations like this are still taking place in many countries, such as Afghanistan.

In offshoots of the Mormon faith, the wives (who are often married at the age of 13 to men in their 40’s or older) have to share a bed in many homes. They are assigned a week in which to have sexual relations with their husband, sometimes in a seperate bed, but usually in the same room. The women have no say in their husband having another wife, so they have no control over who they not only live with, but have to share a bed with, and be intimate with a man in front of. The psychological impact of that alone would be grounds enough for any God of love to ban polygamy.

In cultures where women have more than one husband, it is two men (usually related) “sharing” a wife (who is again an object, not a person), not a woman having the choice to have more than one husband. So philosophical arguements about that making things “fair” are only valid for a very small number of people in “open relationships” in Western countries.

While this may not be a philosophical argument, I would’ve thought that the feelings and needs of women would a good enough reason for God to forbid the practice.
 
You are all giving me practical reasons not to be in a marriage with more than one woman.

But I am asking why its “wrong”.

Yes God says its wrong, but why does God say its wrong.
OP, I might be a little confused as to what argument axactly you might be seeking because in your first post you said that you were not interested in statements of faith, and then you say that God’s laws are not arbitrary and therefore His commandments must have a rational basis to them. I would say that the statement below provides the rationale behind the moral law, and in fact this law should suffice even for those who do not believe in God.
Have you considered that God says it’s wrong precisely because of all these practical reasons?

Peace
James
If we are to consider why God finds polygyny (I assume we are specifying men having multiple wives and not vice versa) to be wrong, then aside from the practical consideration of money/inheritance/genetic diversity, etc arguments we have to consider the immorality of it to be related to the way in which a polygamous society would affect the overall happiness of mankind (which is what God wants for us). Or in other words, God says it is wrong *not *because of the practicality of it, but because He loves us, and it just so happens that His love is practical.👍 Devoid of the consideration for others, the accepted practice of polygyny (indeed, *either *form of poygamy) reduces us to the level of animals which, absent God, is the only way in which we are capable of behaving. People of faith know that we are not simply animals, but that we are made in the image of God and are to live in a way that will please Him. The animalistic urges or tendencies we have are tools that enable us to function, but do not define us in their entirety, as we are meant to seek Him and not simply survive. Therefore, the subject of morality is a point of contention that distinguishes deists from atheists, and the reasons His laws=morality (and are not separate issues for us) is perhaps because since we accept that, it is not necessary for us to assign a rational basis behind His commands.🤷

I’m not sure if what I explained that in a sensible way:o. . . .but I guess I’m saying that since God’s law equals morality (right and wrong), it is not necessary to search for a reason behind it - it just is. So, as to *why *God says it is wrong (assuming I need to question it), I would say it’s because polygyny can only bring about a general unhappiness and dysfunction, which is not in His plan for us. I think Sair touched upon this, especially when considering the outcome of polygyny on men in general, though I disagree slightly with the premise that polygyny is only about sexism.
In fact, that is one of the main social arguments against polygamy - that those who are not wealthy are also denied the opportunity to marry and have children, whilst those men who have sufficient wealth accumulate more and more wives. That leads to large groups of young men who feel deprived and discontented with their lot…
 
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