What's wrong with marketing a Mass?

[Richard320]

Spinoff thread here.

Marketing - targeting an audience - has been dismissed as secular.

I disagree. In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, Sunday Mass is celebrated in something like 40 different languages. Is that not marketing? Pretty much every parish near me has a teen Mass on Sunday night. Is that not marketing? Periodically I see announcements that such-and-such a parish will have a Charismatic Healing Mass. Is that not marketing?

Why does one restaurant do well, while another nearby fails? Obviously, the successful one offers something you can’t get at the failing one. There’s much hand-wringing about declining church attendance, not just among Catholics, and not just in the US. So how come the SSPX continues to grow despite their - shall we say - *irregular *standing? I’ve been convinced for some time that people aren’t so much drawn to the Extraordinary Form as driven to it.

Can’t we have a Mass that would turn the clock back to, say, 1972? It would be the Ordinary Form, in English. Music would be organ or piano. Sanctus Bells get rung. Incense gets burned. The Confiteor doesn’t get skipped, and people do strike their chest during it. There would be no clapping, no holding hands at the Our Father, no extended Sign of Peace with people leaving their pew so they don’t miss anyone. Altar boys. Communion at the rail. (Yes, there are several churches near me that still have the rail; it’s just never used.) No EMHCs. Get the other priests out of the rectory to distribute. And if there aren’t enough - don’t offer the Precious Blood.

Why not?

 

[SonCatcher]

The term “marketing” connotes consumerism. Since one cannot “sell” a Mass for money, people tend to shy away from the term.

However, I have never heard any objection to “promoting” a Mass. I can’t discern any significant difference in meaning between “promote” and “market” except that “promote” lacks the connotation of consumerism.

 

[ljsedivy]

Spinoff thread here.

Marketing - targeting an audience - has been dismissed as secular.

I disagree. In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, Sunday Mass is celebrated in something like 40 different languages. Is that not marketing? Pretty much every parish near me has a teen Mass on Sunday night. Is that not marketing? Periodically I see announcements that such-and-such a parish will have a Charismatic Healing Mass. Is that not marketing?

Why does one restaurant do well, while another nearby fails? Obviously, the successful one offers something you can’t get at the failing one. There’s much hand-wringing about declining church attendance, not just among Catholics, and not just in the US. So how come the SSPX continues to grow despite their - shall we say - *irregular *standing? I’ve been convinced for some time that people aren’t so much drawn to the Extraordinary Form as driven to it.

Can’t we have a Mass that would turn the clock back to, say, 1972? It would be the Ordinary Form, in English. Music would be organ or piano. Sanctus Bells get rung. Incense gets burned. The Confiteor doesn’t get skipped, and people do strike their chest during it. There would be no clapping, no holding hands at the Our Father, no extended Sign of Peace with people leaving their pew so they don’t miss anyone. Altar boys. Communion at the rail. (Yes, there are several churches near me that still have the rail; it’s just never used.) No EMHCs. Get the other priests out of the rectory to distribute. And if there aren’t enough - don’t offer the Precious Blood.

Why not?

I could live with a mass like that, personally.

I don’t know enough about SSPX (some but not enough to talk intelligently about it) but I will have to say that I have felt “driven” to the TLM because of the seemingly lack of belief in the True Presence in the Eucharist. It makes me cry to see people so casual in approaching our Lord.

I believe that the law of liturgical prayer is the law of belief. As goes the mass, so goes the belief (and the way we live).

 

[SMHW]

Can’t we have a Mass that would turn the clock back to, say, 1972? It would be the Ordinary Form, in English. Music would be organ or piano. Sanctus Bells get rung. Incense gets burned. The Confiteor doesn’t get skipped, and people do strike their chest during it. There would be no clapping, no holding hands at the Our Father, no extended Sign of Peace with people leaving their pew so they don’t miss anyone. Altar boys. Communion at the rail. (Yes, there are several churches near me that still have the rail; it’s just never used.) No EMHCs. Get the other priests out of the rectory to distribute. And if there aren’t enough - don’t offer the Precious Blood.

Why not?

I’m not sure who you are addressing this to. There are already Masses such as this. They just aren’t everywhere.

(BTW, it sounds like you want more of a return to 1965. By 1972 many of things you are complaining about had already come to pass.)

 

[Jegudiel]

You raise a very good point. My parish has a “family Mass”, a “teen/collgiant Mass” an EF Mass, a vigil Mass, etc. all advertised in the bulletin. Each Mass has a distinct flavor. What my pastor refuses to do is designate one of our Sunday Masses as a “solemn Mass” (not to be confused with the EF definition) for people who love the “bells and smells” and it’s very frustrating. Nothing at all wrong with this sort of designation, advertisement.

I mentioned “customer service” although it should be called something like “service to the faithful.” Many non-Catholic fellowships do a far, far better job of serving their faithful each Sunday. From greeting people at the door when they arrive to superior preaching, to superior trained muscians/singers, to Sunday school for both adults and kids to a community hour after their services, etc. They do this largely because of competition! They don’t have limited seating in a given geographic area. They don’t gave a requirement that their faithful attend each Sunday.

The universal excuse by Catholics who even care is “but we have the Eucharist!” as if having the Eucharist precludes us from being excellent in other areas. I find that horribly sad. If anything having the Eucharist puts the onus on all of us to ensure we are at least just as good in other areas as competing (yes, competing) Protestant fellowships.

Sadly then some action deform that into “so you are saying we should be more Protestant?” How utter misguided not to mention ofensive. The reason for such garbage is that many Catholic parishes simply lack the expertise and commitment of Protestant fellowships.

Spinoff thread here.

Marketing - targeting an audience - has been dismissed as secular.

I disagree. In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, Sunday Mass is celebrated in something like 40 different languages. Is that not marketing? Pretty much every parish near me has a teen Mass on Sunday night. Is that not marketing? Periodically I see announcements that such-and-such a parish will have a Charismatic Healing Mass. Is that not marketing?

Why does one restaurant do well, while another nearby fails? Obviously, the successful one offers something you can’t get at the failing one. There’s much hand-wringing about declining church attendance, not just among Catholics, and not just in the US. So how come the SSPX continues to grow despite their - shall we say - *irregular *standing? I’ve been convinced for some time that people aren’t so much drawn to the Extraordinary Form as driven to it.

Can’t we have a Mass that would turn the clock back to, say, 1972? It would be the Ordinary Form, in English. Music would be organ or piano. Sanctus Bells get rung. Incense gets burned. The Confiteor doesn’t get skipped, and people do strike their chest during it. There would be no clapping, no holding hands at the Our Father, no extended Sign of Peace with people leaving their pew so they don’t miss anyone. Altar boys. Communion at the rail. (Yes, there are several churches near me that still have the rail; it’s just never used.) No EMHCs. Get the other priests out of the rectory to distribute. And if there aren’t enough - don’t offer the Precious Blood.

Why not?

 

[ljsedivy]

When I go to the TLM the people there are so nice. There are two smiling gentleman that hand me the bulletin and open the door for me.

Once in the sanctuary, it’s all eyes on God. Whereas in my home parish the sanctuary is no different than the vestibule of the church: a social gathering hall. Heaven forbid anyone try to pray after mass – that has to be near impossible.

But back to marketing a mass…we did have a polka mass that was being promoted in our bulletin for a number of weeks leading up to the “event”. That felt like marketing because it appeared to be promoting a particular polka band that I suppose the polka folks would be able to identify. It had a definite marketing flavor enhancement. But to list masses by their “flavor” I don’t know if that would really consitute marketing. Does it?

 

[Jegudiel]

When I go to the TLM the people there are so nice. There are two smiling gentleman that hand me the bulletin and open the door for me.

Once in the sanctuary, it’s all eyes on God. Whereas in my home parish the sanctuary is no different than the vestibule of the church: a social gathering hall. Heaven forbid anyone try to pray after mass – that has to be near impossible.

But back to marketing a mass…we did have a polka mass that was being promoted in our bulletin for a number of weeks leading up to the “event”. That felt like marketing because it appeared to be promoting a particular polka band that I suppose the polka folks would be able to identify. It had a definite marketing flavor enhancement. But to list masses by their “flavor” I don’t know if that would really consitute marketing. Does it?

I am glad you have good experiences at your EF Mass. The EF Mass here is much different. People act extremely severe, as if they are trying to impress others with their personal piety. Grim facial expressions, grimaces if should someone cough or try to ask a question, the whole bit. It’s one reason why I feel the Mass is so poorly attended but I will say there is no talking!

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

When I go to the TLM the people there are so nice. There are two smiling gentleman that hand me the bulletin and open the door for me.

This is the exact opposite of the only TLM offered in my area. The first time my husband and I attended we were struck at the two camps the attendees seem to fall into. One group was most piously stern and made a show of their constant eyes of the Altar behavior. They seemed to be in competition to see who could say the Rosary the loudest. The other was a much smaller group of young families, three or four in all, who didn’t seem to realize they were at a Mass, who chatted among themselves before, during, and after the service like it was just another Sunday afternoon at the mall or in the park.

After Mass it was almost a foot race to see who could get to their cars and out of the parking lot the fastest. My home parish parishioners aren’t the friendliest group on Earth, but we don’t elbow each other out of the way as we exit Mass, and we generally stop our cars to let pedestrians walk past us as we’re driving out of the parking lot.

Luna

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Spinoff thread here.

Marketing - targeting an audience - has been dismissed as secular.

I disagree. In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, Sunday Mass is celebrated in something like 40 different languages. Is that not marketing? Pretty much every parish near me has a teen Mass on Sunday night. Is that not marketing? Periodically I see announcements that such-and-such a parish will have a Charismatic Healing Mass. Is that not marketing?

Why does one restaurant do well, while another nearby fails? Obviously, the successful one offers something you can’t get at the failing one. There’s much hand-wringing about declining church attendance, not just among Catholics, and not just in the US. So how come the SSPX continues to grow despite their - shall we say - *irregular *standing? I’ve been convinced for some time that people aren’t so much drawn to the Extraordinary Form as driven to it.

Can’t we have a Mass that would turn the clock back to, say, 1972? **It would be the Ordinary Form, in English. Music would be organ or piano. Sanctus Bells get rung. Incense gets burned. The Confiteor doesn’t get skipped, and people do strike their chest during it. There would be no clapping, no holding hands at the Our Father, no extended Sign of Peace with people leaving their pew so they don’t miss anyone. Altar boys. Communion at the rail. (Yes, there are several churches near me that still have the rail; it’s just never used.) No EMHCs. Get the other priests out of the rectory to distribute. And if there aren’t enough - don’t offer the Precious Blood.**Why not?

We have Masses almost exactly like that all the time around here. Not so many churches with railings (built without, not torn out).

As you say, many parishes do “advertise” specific types of Masses - by language, music type, age, etc. I think the default position should be the “solemn” Mass, and the advertised ones those that differ from that in some respect.

 

[Chatter163]

I was the one who, in the other thread, railed againstic materialstic, consumeristic, market-based wording. But I was responding to another poster’s analysis of Catholic Mass attendance, speaking of 'competing Masses" and comparing this with the “customer satisfaction” of Protestant services.

It was the analysis of Mass attendance, phrased in market-driven language, to which I objected, not the meeting of various pastoral needs by celebrating different types of Masses, or publicizing this availability. Big difference.

 

[maryjk]

Can’t we have a Mass that would turn the clock back to, say, 1972? It would be the Ordinary Form, in English. Music would be organ or piano. Sanctus Bells get rung. Incense gets burned. The Confiteor doesn’t get skipped, and people do strike their chest during it. There would be no clapping, no holding hands at the Our Father, no extended Sign of Peace with people leaving their pew so they don’t miss anyone. Altar boys. Communion at the rail. (Yes, there are several churches near me that still have the rail; it’s just never used.) No EMHCs. Get the other priests out of the rectory to distribute. And if there aren’t enough - don’t offer the Precious Blood.

Why not?

So how would you market a Mass like that?

If you truly wanted to market it, you would need something a little more concise.

Also, how would you stop, lets say, a family from holding hands? How would you force people to strike their breast? Would you have ushers act as police?

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

The problem with marketing Mass and having all these different types of Masses based on personal preference is that it makes Mass attendance about us and what we want, when Mass should be about the almighty adoration and worship of God. Having the Extraordinary Form and the Ordinary form of Mass as well as Masses offered in various languages out of pastoral need isn’t the same as having a Jazz Mass, Polka Mass, Teen Mass, etc and marketing Mass to suit certain individual preferences and tastes.