Whats wrong with Mormonism

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Eliza10

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As I tried to follow the recent “Straw Man” thread, I felt like I was in a tangled web. The Catholics raised reasonable questions, and the Mormons always had a long, long involved answer - one full of information, but that didn’t enlighten.

The words of Christ lift me, and why don’t I feel any lifting toward God or shedding of light in Mormon apologetics or rites? Often I see very intelligent people valiantly defending the winding, twisted, involved, doctrine of Mormonism because they do think its true and they are applying all their intelligence to justifying it.

I picture a big messy web, and what comes to mind is Shakespeare’s “O what a tangled web we weave, when at first we practice to deceive.”

Not for one minute do I think the Mormon apologists whose arguments I have followed here or elsewhere are trying to decieve. Not one bit. I see sincerity and intelligence. (Well, blind stubbornness too!) But what they are trying to defend is a religion entangled in untruths.

Its the fruit of Joseph Smith. He lived a life of deceit. How can the founder and hero of a religion live a life of deceit without the religious doctrine coming fromt he man being marked with deceits, or, falsehoods?

So my idea is that the reason why wading through arguments with Mormon apologists feels like wading into a very tangled web is because the life of the founder, Joseph Smith, was a tangled web of deceit. A religion founded on deceit.

(Whats is good in it is the good people seeking God and seeking to do His will. Not the doctrine. The doctinal argments are the “web” I am speaking about.)

…http://z.about.com/d/catholicism/1/0/6/-/-/-/Pope_Benedict_Easter_Vigil_2007.jpg
 
Talk about tangled.😃

The LDS beliefs are really quite simple. Most of the complexity comes from a long history of people trying to prove us wrong by misquoting our scriptures. There is the odd complicated bit, but the vast majority of the ideas really are very simple.

As far as Joseph Smith your statements remind me of what he was told by Moroni when they first meet.

That God had a work for him and because of that work his name should be had for good and evil among all nations.
 
Eliza10 said:
As I tried to follow the recent “Straw Man” thread, I felt like I was in a tangled web. The Catholics raised reasonable questions, and the Mormons always had a long, long involved answer - one full of information, but that didn’t enlighten.

The words of Christ lift me, and why don’t I feel any lifting toward God or shedding of light in Mormon apologetics or rites? Often I see very intelligent people valiantly defending the winding, twisted, involved, doctrine of Mormonism because they do think its true and they are applying all their intelligence to justifying it.

I picture a big messy web, and what comes to mind is Shakespeare’s “O what a tangled web we weave, when at first we practice to deceive.”

Not for one minute do I think the Mormon apologists whose arguments I have followed here or elsewhere are trying to decieve. Not one bit. I see sincerity and intelligence. (Well, blind stubbornness too!) But what they are trying to defend is a religion entangled in untruths.

Its the fruit of Joseph Smith. He lived a life of deceit. How can the founder and hero of a religion live a life of deceit without the religious doctrine coming fromt he man being marked with deceits, or, falsehoods?

So my idea is that the reason why wading through arguments with Mormon apologists feels like wading into a very tangled web is because the life of the founder, Joseph Smith, was a tangled web of deceit. A religion founded on deceit.

(Whats is good in it is the good people seeking God and seeking to do His will. Not the doctrine. The doctinal argments are the “web” I am speaking about.)

…http://z.about.com/d/catholicism/1/0/6/-/-/-/Pope_Benedict_Easter_Vigil_2007.jpg
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I understand what your saying here. I have listened to people from t the LDS I get very confused. Though I believe that most are sincere there are one or two that just want to be argumentative and deceitful. then again it could be me as I find that the only thing a bout the LDS faith I agree with is the names Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. and even then It seems to not go much beyond the name.
 
teancum79 said:
…As far as Joseph Smith your statements remind me of what he was told by Moroni when they first meet.

That God had a work for him and because of that work his name should be had for good and evil among all nations.
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Hmm. Be “had” for good and evil among nations?

What does that mean?

Does it speak of the extreme evil actions in the life of Smith as well as the great good acts that I assume are there as well? That these would be seen by “all nations”?

I prefer the Saints. They may not have been perfect early on, but through faith and the graces imparted by the Church, they grew in perfection of holiness as their life went on - vs.* less holy*, like Joseph Smith.

…http://www.stanne-byzcath.org/Ladyweb.jpg
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
I understand what your saying here. I have listened to people from t the LDS I get very confused…
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Yes, you feel confused, not enlightened. Exactly.

I think many Mormon members listen to the apologists, professional or not, and say, “Well, I don’t understand it, but it sounds very intelligent. And I just want to go to the Church my family and friends go to, where folks are nice to me, and they do believe in God, like me.”
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
…Though I believe that most are sincere there are one or two that just want to be argumentative and deceitful. then again it could be me as I find that the only thing a bout the LDS faith I agree with is the names Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. and even then It seems to not go much beyond the name.
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We agree. Most are sincere!

…ilianrachov.com/ikons/images/the%20virgin%20mary%20with%20gesus.tempera%20on%20wood.30%20x%2020cm.collection%20of%20mons.fabio%20attard.malta.jpg
 
What’s wrong with mormonism ?

They’re sacred book is only comparable to the qu’ran, full of fables and plagiaries - in this case from King James Bible

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_and_the_King_James_Bible

Both have the same common link :

A angel revelation : Moroni in this case rather of Gabriel in Islam

Angels from hell, or perhaps some kind of modern disease as like schizophrenia or epilepsy, or if not a narcissistic disease

Trinity for them is 1+1+1, rather than 1x1x1

A perfect polytheistic view of Christianity
 
Delta2 said:
What’s wrong with mormonism ?

They’re sacred book is only comparable to the qu’ran, full of fables and plagiaries - in this case from King James Bible

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_and_the_King_James_Bible

Both have the same common link :

A angel revelation : Moroni in this case rather of Gabriel in Islam

Angels from hell, or perhaps some kind of modern disease as like schizophrenia or epilepsy, or if not a narcissistic disease

Trinity for them is 1+1+1, rather than 1x1x1

A perfect polytheistic view of Christianity
Click to expand...
Most mormons are very sincere people who are trapped in a religion built upon the lies and duplicity of a very few unscrupulous men, namely Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Oliver Cowdery et al. These men saw an opportunity for both profit and power and formulated a “religion” to achieve it. Very much like Scientology, invented by L. Ron Hubbard, who cynically stated that “the best way get rich was to start your own religion.”
 
Thanks, Delta. And thats just a start!

Yes, when the founder and hero of a religion lives a life that is a tangled web of deceit, then it only makes sense that the doctrine he spews forth is a tangled web of deceit.

That is criticism of Joseph Smith and his religion’s doctrine. As for those Mormons who lead good and holy lives in a religion with twisted doctrines, without the benefit of the examples of great Saints such as we have, and most importantly, without the abundant Graces we have available to us through the Sacraments of the Church, are truly to be admired.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
hosemonkey said:
Most mormons are very sincere people who are trapped in a religion built upon the lies and duplicity of a very few unscrupulous men, namely Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Oliver Cowdery et al. These men saw an opportunity for both profit and power and formulated a “religion” to achieve it. Very much like Scientology, invented by L. Ron Hubbard, who cynically stated that “the best way get rich was to start your own religion.”
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I’m sure thats all true. I don’t know much about Brigham Young, only that he followed in the rotton footsteps of Smith in too many ways.

…http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/6461/matt.jpg
 
Eliza10 said:
Thanks, Delta. And thats just a start!
…without the benefit of the examples of great Saints such as we have, and most importantly, without the abundant Graces we have available to us through the Sacraments of the Church, are truly to be admired.
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Yeah, you right

But did you ever thought about the danger of that ?
But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.
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Luke, 12-48
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We have alright a lot of graces, but in God’s point of view : if we, catholics, dismiss or ignore or reject all that graces we are in a worst site than them

Respect, listen to Holy Spirit, regret our weakness and ask for forgiveness, and respect the Holy Supper as transubstantiation of Jesus spirit…is fundamental

I personally hate Islam, but not muslims

The same about mormonism and mormons

I feel only sorrow and I try to take them back to the right path and truth
 
For one thing, it’s a polytheistic fertility cult with a Christian veneer.

Will that do for starters?
 
My goodness Eliza10, those pictures are gorgeous!:yup:

Couldn’t help myself. Sorry to get off topic. Carry on…
 
Delta2 said:
…But did you ever thought about the danger of that ?..
We have alright a lot of graces, but in God’s point of view : if we, catholics, dismiss or ignore or reject all that graces we are in a worst site than them…
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Yes, I do think of that often. Pretty much whenever I see the deceits and falsehoods in doctrines like Mormonism and others. I hate it, because it misleads. Because the truth sets you free, but falsehood enslaves. I feel sorry for those enslaved.

And then I remember how vastly rich I am, because by grace I am Catholic, and how my life in Christ ought to reflect that.

http://www.mooneyfineart.com.au/images/cards2002/CARD_2 Baby Jesus_L.jpg
 
Just a side note: A business associate and I were talking over the phone and he had me guess his religion. In answer to a question about one minute into the conversation he said “either my religion is true or Catholicism is true.” I said “you’re mormon.”

As most of you know this isn’t just another protestant sect. This isn’t a Christian group as one might think. Either we are correct or they are. They deserve the respect of understanding the conflict much better than most protestants do and for that matter much better than many Catholics do. This conflict isn’t over “separated bretheren” but between truth and falsehood. They are at least honest.

CDL
 
I think part of the problem is continuing revelations. You cannot dig out of a hole, you can only fill it. Some of these people try to dig out why one revelation counteracts another, or even corrects scripture.
 
Eliza10 said:
As I tried to follow the recent “Straw Man” thread, I felt like I was in a tangled web. The Catholics raised reasonable questions, and the Mormons always had a long, long involved answer - one full of information, but that didn’t enlighten. . . .
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You seem to believe in the religion of art galeries! I guess there is something to be said for that. They do say that a picture is worth more that a thousand words! 😃

zerinus
 
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