Whats wrong with Mormonism

[Jerusha]

I picture a big messy web, and what comes to mind is Shakespeare’s “O what a tangled web we weave, when at first we practice to deceive.”

Its the fruit of Joseph Smith. He lived a life of deceit. How can the founder and hero of a religion live a life of deceit without the religious doctrine coming fromt he man being marked with deceits, or, falsehoods?

So my idea is that the reason why wading through arguments with Mormon apologists feels like wading into a very tangled web is because the life of the founder, Joseph Smith, was a tangled web of deceit. A religion founded on deceit.

Very well said. I was raised to always tell the truth, so much that sometimes I put myself into danger because of it. Mormonism so reminds me of Shelob’s lair, from LOTR.

( I posted this, THEN I peeked at Z’s post. )

 

[why_me]

Hmm. Be “had” for good and evil among nations?

What does that mean?

Does it speak of the extreme evil actions in the life of Smith as well as the great good acts that I assume are there as well? That these would be seen by “all nations”?

I prefer the Saints. They may not have been perfect early on, but through faith and the graces imparted by the Church, they grew in perfection of holiness as their life went on - vs.* less holy*, like Joseph Smith.

…http://www.stanne-byzcath.org/Ladyweb.jpg

Thank you for your catholic judgementalism. It shows the true christian spirit of God’s love and understanding.


What was told to Joseph Smith has actually happened as proven by your own posts. It was quite a claim to make if JS made it all up. But to have Heavenly Father tell JS that his name would be had for good or evil among nations is right on target, don’t you think?

 

[why_me]

Most mormons are very sincere people who are trapped in a religion built upon the lies and duplicity of a very few unscrupulous men, namely Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Oliver Cowdery et al. These men saw an opportunity for both profit and power and formulated a “religion” to achieve it. Very much like Scientology, invented by L. Ron Hubbard, who cynically stated that “the best way get rich was to start your own religion.”

Thank you for your catholic judgementalism. It shows the true spirit of christ-like thinking. Judge your neighbor and be harsh toward another’s faith or creed.

Do you have any proof that JS lied about the book of mormon and that BY was in on it? It seems to me that BY believed in the book and that JS gave his life for the work that was started.

 

[why_me]

I think part of the problem is continuing revelations. You cannot dig out of a hole, you can only fill it. Some of these people try to dig out why one revelation counteracts another, or even corrects scripture.

There is no reason to believe that god would suddenly stop revelation. It seems to me that continuous revelation does make some sense. Why would god stop talking to his leaders? Life has changed during the last hundred years. Mormon prophets have been right on top of the direction that societies have taken and have advised the lds members accordingly. I have heard no unwise counsel that has come from lds leadership when such counsel is read at sacrament meetings. I usually miss sacrament meeting but someone told me that last week a letter was read from Salt Lake advising people to stay away from speculation in the markets. Good advise if true.

 

[ibkc]

Thank you for your catholic judgementalism. It shows the true spirit of christ-like thinking. Judge your neighbor and be harsh toward another’s faith or creed.

why me
“If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone.” John 8:7

 

[SaintTrainee]

Do you have any proof that JS lied about the book of mormon and that BY was in on it? It seems to me that BY believed in the book and that JS gave his life for the work that was started.

Do YOU have any proof that JS is telling the truth? Mormonism started aroung 1850 so where was Mormonism for the remainder of the 2000 years?

 

[why_me]

Do YOU have any proof that JS is telling the truth? Mormonism started aroung 1850 so where was Mormonism for the remainder of the 2000 years?

It started in the late 1820’s. This is where faith comes into the picture. Mormonism has survived because it has not been proven untrue.

ALso, for the most part the leaders of the lds church have remained faithful members of the lds church. Now if apostles and general authorities would begin to leave enmass and claim falsehood that may cause a problem. But this has not happened because the general authorities believe in the lds church and in the truth claim.

 

[why_me]

why me
“If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone.” John 8:7

A good quotation to remember for your own posts about the lds religion.

 

[teancum79]

You know the comments made on this thread reminds me of the end of the Book of Acts

28:
22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Everywhere evil is spoken of the LDS faith. Sadly much of it based on falsehood and rumor though admittedly we are not perfect.

I’m wondering how many people remember the wise council of Gamaliel (Acts 5)
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

 

[ibkc]

A good quotation to remember for your own posts about the lds religion.

All of us should remember it. Me, you, everyone.

 

[SaintTrainee]

It started in the late 1820’s. This is where faith comes into the picture. Mormonism has survived because it has not been proven untrue.

ALso, for the most part the leaders of the lds church have remained faithful members of the lds church. Now if apostles and general authorities would begin to leave enmass and claim falsehood that may cause a problem. But this has not happened because the general authorities believe in the lds church and in the truth claim.

But, where were all of the Mormons prior to the 1820’s? All of these poor souls were out there without JS to guide them?

 

[teancum79]

Do YOU have any proof that JS is telling the truth? Mormonism started aroung 1850 so where was Mormonism for the remainder of the 2000 years?

The church was officially organized in 1830 (April 6th I think a Tuesday if anyone cares).

I know you probably won’t agree with this, but there is a reason why there is a long stretch of time called the Dark Ages.

 

[ibkc]

I know you probably won’t agree with this, but there is a reason why there is a long stretch of time called the Dark Ages.

Yes, it was called the fall of the Roman Empire. Thank God the Catholic Church survived to preserve much of the learning of the ancients and to develop beautiful new architecture and art in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.

 

[SaintTrainee]

I know you probably won’t agree with this, but there is a reason why there is a long stretch of time called the Dark Ages.

True! I don’t agree with this “theory”.

 

[MomblessedX3]

My DH is a mormon. When confronted with what I call the truth he will concede contradictions and such, but he will continue to believe because he has faith in it. He doesn’t have to understand…that is why it is faith. I have a hard time with this. I have faith…faith that God is real despite the fact that I have never "seen’ him.

I will never be able to understand his justifications…but that is not my goal. I can appreciate the good things, respectfully disagree when I don’t, and overall be tolerant of our differences.
I think that that is what we are going to have to do in general. When we attack or vehemently defend we are not doing a very good job of witnessing. It will cause others in this case the mormons to ‘dig in their heels’ and close their ‘ears’ to what we need to share.

I am guilty of this…for that I apologise.

Just a few of my thoughts…maybe it will provide some food for thought for others.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

It started in the late 1820’s. This is where faith comes into the picture. Mormonism has survived because it has not been proven untrue.

Islam has been around since the 600’s does that mean it is true? What about the Hindus? very very old religion there are they true as well? The Catholic Church does not claim to be the True faith and Church just on the fact that it been around for nearly 2000 years. It
comes from Christ and those he left his teaching and Authority to, the Apostles. Not founded by a man of questionable morals wondering around the hills by himself.

ALso, for the most part the leaders of the lds church have remained faithful members of the lds church. Now if apostles and general authorities would begin to leave enmass and claim falsehood that may cause a problem. But this has not happened because the general authorities believe in the lds church and in the truth claim.

 

[teancum79]

Whats to be shown. To the person who does not want to believe no amount of evidence will ever be enough. Take Fiji for example. no one can prove that the place exists. Picture cans be created, people can lie a boat or plan trip to it could be faked. I can not find (despite having had friends from there) any evidance that can prove beyond doubt that Fiji is a real island. So theres not going to be much to prove or disprove a belief.

 

[ralphinal]

Whats to be shown. To the person who does not want to believe no amount of evidence will ever be enough. Take Fiji for example. no one can prove that the place exists. Picture cans be created, people can lie a boat or plan trip to it could be faked. I can not find (despite having had friends from there) any evidance that can prove beyond doubt that Fiji is a real island. So theres not going to be much to prove or disprove a belief.

But you can put your money where your mouth is and book a trip and go there, carrying a GPS to see if the location matches the coordinates.

 

[teancum79]

GPS can be wrong. It could all be complex scheme to make you buy into the Fiji lie.

 

[ralphinal]

GPS can be wrong. It could all be complex scheme to make you buy into the Fiji lie.

Perhaps, but you would be standing somewhere…