What's wrong with the Cathokic church? Help!

[AngloCath4]

In my home town, we have about 10 Catholic churches. Since I have become Catholic, I have been able to talk to several of the priests at most of the parishes, about theology and church teachings. To my dismay, quite a few of these priests are liberal-leaning (I walked out of church when our priest said all religions lead to the same God, but that is the extreme case).

And secondly, I have found that there aren’t many happy Catholics. In my Protestant church, there were many people who were genuinely in love with Jesus. There were few people who went to church because they felt obligated. It seems to me that the opposite is true in the Catholic church: there are few who attend church who appear to be there because they love God, and many are there because they feel obligated (I am making observations of the people I see, and the people I have spoken to). When I showed up to church for the first time, no one greeted me, and Christ was only mentioned in the liturgical prayers, I was completely lost. The Catholic church I read about didn’t seem to exist in reality.

Lastly, if I want to attend a Bible study (or some type of Catholic education past what I learned in RCIA) with a conservative Catholic priest or lay-leader, I would have to learn Spanish. I want to learn about the Bible in fellowship with others, but the only people doing that kind of thing are Spanish-speakers. There are Bible studies in English, but they are lead by the same liberal-leaning priests.

I believe in the teachings of the Catholic church, but I am not sure I would tell someone they should become Catholic because of the liberal clergy and the lack of passion for Jesus that I do not see in the priests or laity. Would you tell your coworker about Jesus, and invite him or her to a church like I have in my hometown?

 

[shom-bms]

It’s generally true that the typical Catholic at Sunday Mass doesn’t fully appreciate the treasure he has in the Catholic faith and doesn’t value the Word of God as much as some in non-Catholic churches. But since you aren’t that type of Catholic, you can give a good example to your brothers and sisters in the parish of what the fullness of the faith looks like in an on-fire Catholic. In fact, maybe you’re the catalyst God is going to use to completely change the lukewarm atmosphere at your parish.

With ten churches in your area I’d be surprised if there weren’t at least a few orthodox priests serving in that area. If you know any like-minded Catholics who get around to the different parishes I’d ask them for recommendations.

Finally, remember that the people who go to daily Mass certainly aren’t there merely out of a sense of obligation. Also, many parishes have one or more smaller groups where on-fire types gravitate. It might be a Marian prayer group or a charismatic prayer group. If you’re looking for some enthusiastic folks with whom you can fellowship, you’ll likely find them there.

 

[glendab]

There is only one Church. It is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Anything else is a sham. I think you may be in the same place some were in when Jesus revealed His intention to feed us with His own flesh and blood when this clearly was a grave matter to the Jews of His time and in the prohibitions against blood, etc. and many turned away and went their own way. Then Peter spoke for the rest of us and said where are we to go Lord, for You have the words of eternal life? (not verbatim, but give me a little slack here) There is much wisdom in this for converts, reverts and person who are simply growing towards a maturity of faith not found in CCD class. There is a time in our lives and in our faith walk when we have to simply obey and act as if and turn to God in faith whether or no we understand or agree or whatever. This acting in faith steers us to a deeper level of faith not possible any other way.

There is nothing wrong with the Church for she is the spotless Bride of the spotless Lamb. Some of the folks in her are really messed up. It is after all not a hotel for paper saints, but a hospital for sinners. If you are working on yourself and your relationship with Jesus, what others think and do won’t bother you because you will be working about your own salvation in fear and trembling as the Word says. Look to yourself. That is where the real answer for your dilemma is.

Glenda

 

[ClearWater]

In my home town, we have about 10 Catholic churches. Since I have become Catholic, I have been able to talk to several of the priests at most of the parishes, about theology and church teachings. To my dismay, quite a few of these priests are liberal-leaning (I walked out of church when our priest said all religions lead to the same God, but that is the extreme case).

And secondly, I have found that there aren’t many happy Catholics. In my Protestant church, there were many people who were genuinely in love with Jesus. There were few people who went to church because they felt obligated. It seems to me that the opposite is true in the Catholic church: there are few who attend church who appear to be there because they love God, and many are there because they feel obligated (I am making observations of the people I see, and the people I have spoken to). When I showed up to church for the first time, no one greeted me, and Christ was only mentioned in the liturgical prayers, I was completely lost. The Catholic church I read about didn’t seem to exist in reality.

Lastly, if I want to attend a Bible study (or some type of Catholic education past what I learned in RCIA) with a conservative Catholic priest or lay-leader, I would have to learn Spanish. I want to learn about the Bible in fellowship with others, but the only people doing that kind of thing are Spanish-speakers. There are Bible studies in English, but they are lead by the same liberal-leaning priests.

I believe in the teachings of the Catholic church, but I am not sure I would tell someone they should become Catholic because of the liberal clergy and the lack of passion for Jesus that I do not see in the priests or laity. Would you tell your coworker about Jesus, and invite him or her to a church like I have in my hometown?

You could learn Spanish, but to become conversational, it would probably take the average person years.

Sometimes, our priests can be really hard here in Latin America, too hard.

Well, once, I had a penance where I had to knee walk across the length of the church, and at the end, I was bleeding. I did my penance but actually left the Catholic Church fo 10 years after that.

I also had a run in with a Latin priest, in the US. He was, during is homily, telling somebody to leave the church, to leave right now! I’ve never seen anything like it. Don’t even know who he was referring to, but I ended up leaving that church. I saw it after mass ended, and left.

In Ecuador, I tried to receive communion in the hand. Here, they don´t do it that way. They receive it on the tongue, and I had the wrong hand, and the priest yelled at me. It might have been my first visit to a church, and it was so hard to have that negative an experience. He yelled at me in front of everyone. It was so humilliating.

I was studying Spanish, intensively, 7 hours/day, living with an Ecuadorian family. I spoke with the mother of the family, told her about that. She said she was in a quandry as to what to do, since the Catholic education in Latin America, is known for being superior, in many cases. HOWEVER, even so, due to the strictness, she didn´t really relish the idea of putting her daughters through that.

As to myself, she recommended I go to a different church. She said she welcomed American priests, because they were a lot more human, or humane, or whatever you would call it.

Here, there isn´t much fellowship in the Catholic Church. Most people come, do their duty, go home right away, don´t stick around to chat.

At times, I admit in some ways, I miss the churches of the US. I haven´t found a church here I’m happy with, but in the US, I was able to.

 

[ClearWater]

Oh yeah, when I recently came to Mexico, I saw a lady knee walking the entire length of the Cathedral! The Cathedral has a REALLY hard surface, and is VERY long.

She was walking like that with her daughter. I asked my friend what that was about, and she just said, “Penance”.

I had a friend who said he once got, as a penance, to knee walk across SEVEN churches!

It’s not easy here. Sometimes, I miss our American priests, truth be told AND our American churches. They were often more…compassionate.

 

[JamalChristophr]

Oh yeah, when I recently came to Mexico, I saw a lady knee walking the entire length of the Cathedral! The Cathedral has a REALLY hard surface, and is VERY long.

She was walking like that with her daughter. I asked my friend what that was about, and she just said, “Penance”.

I had a friend who said he once got, as a penance, to knee walk across SEVEN churches!

It’s not easy here. Sometimes, I miss our American priests, truth be told AND our American churches. They were often more…compassionate.

Interesting…I’d seen that in video…I always thought it was personal penance and piety and didn’t know it was given by the priest at confession sometimes.

 

[JamalChristophr]

In my home town, we have about 10 Catholic churches. Since I have become Catholic, I have been able to talk to several of the priests at most of the parishes, about theology and church teachings. To my dismay, quite a few of these priests are liberal-leaning (I walked out of church when our priest said all religions lead to the same God, but that is the extreme case).

And secondly, I have found that there aren’t many happy Catholics. In my Protestant church, there were many people who were genuinely in love with Jesus. There were few people who went to church because they felt obligated. It seems to me that the opposite is true in the Catholic church: there are few who attend church who appear to be there because they love God, and many are there because they feel obligated (I am making observations of the people I see, and the people I have spoken to). When I showed up to church for the first time, no one greeted me, and Christ was only mentioned in the liturgical prayers, I was completely lost. The Catholic church I read about didn’t seem to exist in reality.

Lastly, if I want to attend a Bible study (or some type of Catholic education past what I learned in RCIA) with a conservative Catholic priest or lay-leader, I would have to learn Spanish. I want to learn about the Bible in fellowship with others, but the only people doing that kind of thing are Spanish-speakers. There are Bible studies in English, but they are lead by the same liberal-leaning priests.

I believe in the teachings of the Catholic church, but I am not sure I would tell someone they should become Catholic because of the liberal clergy and the lack of passion for Jesus that I do not see in the priests or laity. Would you tell your coworker about Jesus, and invite him or her to a church like I have in my hometown?

I think you need to reevaluate and rethink what is truly awesome about being Catholic, my friend.

At the top of the list, we have the Eucharist, no other church has it but the Orthodox. There are many points to address in your post, but I will speak to that one. Many of us love Christ very much, but it doesn’t have to be shown outwardly in a way that is totally visible to everyone else. all the time. Anyways, I’m digressing. The Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ and it is the most powerful means of sanctification in this life when we are receptive to Jesus hidden under the appearance of Bread and Wine and come to the sacrament with trust, faith, hope, and charity. Most priests, by the way, I believe are quite orthodox. Someone correct me if they disagree.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Good insights on this identical topic in the Non-Catholic Religions forum thread - “Friendly” churches and swan songs.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=932183

Look for the posts by Cat.

 

[Perlita]

Sorry you have that kind of experience in Mexico, I am 65 years old, catholic all my life and I never been given that kind of pennance. Lately my complaint is that our priests don’t give any pennance, they just hear our sins and give some words of comfort. Certainly some people go to sunday mass out of obligation, but at daily mass we go out of love for Jesus.
For us craddle catholics the converts are a very good example of how we should live our faith. Don’t be discouraged, you will find what your looking for because you are looking for Jesus and He is with us, even if we are not the best catholics. Our priests need aur prayers, there are some exceptional priests and some no so much, lets pray for them. God bless.

 

[kenmiller]

In the end many liberal priests recognize we agree with so much with protestants , while we disagree on merely secondary issues. The big picture is loving Christ and follow him in heart and deeds.

Amen.

My Lutheran mother would agree with you, to the dismay of my Catholic Dad. In that she believed protestants seemed more friendly, charitable and happier people

 

[ClearWater]

Sorry you have that kind of experience in Mexico, I am 65 years old, catholic all my life and I never been given that kind of pennance. Lately my complaint is that our priests don’t give any pennance, they just hear our sins and give some words of comfort. Certainly some people go to sunday mass out of obligation, but at daily mass we go out of love for Jesus.
For us craddle catholics the converts are a very good example of how we should live our faith. Don’t be discouraged, you will find what your looking for because you are looking for Jesus and He is with us, even if we are not the best catholics. Our priests need aur prayers, there are some exceptional priests and some no so much, lets pray for them. God bless.

In recent years, I haven´t really had as much experience with priests like that, as much. The priests here I’ve crossed paths with of late either give no penance or a VERY light one.

I still go to church but am now questioning my faith. At times, it’s been put to the test in some ways. The outcome still remains to be seen.

What actually gets me “down”, as much, or probably more than some priests like the above would be sarcasm by Catholics, like on the forum. Sometimes, that discourages me probably more than anything else, truth be told.

 

[albertparmar]

In my home town, we have about 10 Catholic churches. Since I have become Catholic, I have been able to talk to several of the priests at most of the parishes, about theology and church teachings. To my dismay, quite a few of these priests are liberal-leaning (I walked out of church when our priest said all religions lead to the same God, but that is the extreme case).

And secondly, I have found that there aren’t many happy Catholics. In my Protestant church, there were many people who were genuinely in love with Jesus. There were few people who went to church because they felt obligated. It seems to me that the opposite is true in the Catholic church: there are few who attend church who appear to be there because they love God, and many are there because they feel obligated (I am making observations of the people I see, and the people I have spoken to). When I showed up to church for the first time, no one greeted me, and Christ was only mentioned in the liturgical prayers, I was completely lost. The Catholic church I read about didn’t seem to exist in reality.

Lastly, if I want to attend a Bible study (or some type of Catholic education past what I learned in RCIA) with a conservative Catholic priest or lay-leader, I would have to learn Spanish. I want to learn about the Bible in fellowship with others, but the only people doing that kind of thing are Spanish-speakers. There are Bible studies in English, but they are lead by the same liberal-leaning priests.

I believe in the teachings of the Catholic church, but I am not sure I would tell someone they should become Catholic because of the liberal clergy and the lack of passion for Jesus that I do not see in the priests or laity. Would you tell your coworker about Jesus, and invite him or her to a church like I have in my hometown?

Dear Brother,

I also think like you. I suggest you if you really want to study the bible. Go for online study at www.salvationhistory.com. It is a catholic website. You can also preferred to read book “Immitation of Chirst” It is best catholic book. albertparmar@gmail.com

With kind regards,

albert parmar

 

[Della]

In my experience as a convert I was happy to not have people into all my business at church. It’s one thing to have a close community, but it all too often descends into judging who is “truly” spiritual and who isn’t. There’s a downside to such closeness that many seem to ignore/gloss over or simply never take into account. But it weighed heavily on me as a Protestant.

The Catholic Church is open to all–the lukewarm as well as the very devout. No one can determine how friendly Catholics are by how they come and go from Mass. For Catholics Mass is not a social event, but strictly one of worship. Afterwards, during coffee and donuts is where people talk to each other. Also, many have families with children who need to be fed at home–there are very few after-church potluck dinners at Catholic parishes.

If new people wish to get to know other people in their parish they might want to join a parish group–usually there are many doing different things from the practical to the spiritual. If there isn’t a suitable group, such as Bible study or prayer group, talk to the pastor about having one set up. Just be prepared to get good materials for it and to lead it. The person who feels the need for a ministry is usually asked to lead it.

The Church is not a enclave for saints, rather it is a hospital for sinners. We are all sinners. It’s better to look to our own spiritaul needs first and then help our brethren with theirs. If there are extraordinary hindrances, then pray that God will open ways for you to find what you need.

We have to remember that priests are people too. They weren’t hatched out of eggs as priests. And they live in the same societies we do with the same temptations all around them. It can be as hard for them to follow the Gospel as any layman, even more so when there is so much pressure on them to go along to get along. Their people might not want to hear the truth, so they give in. Sure, that’s a failing, but we all fail God. They have a greater burden to bear, and will face a greater judgment, so we need to pray and pray hard for them.

Sorry to write so much, but there are many factors that go into the ordoxdoxy/heterodoxy of any parish. I believe we should help where we can, if we can. But even if we can’t change things we can always pray. The Church has had to deal with such issues from the very start and will have to deal with them until Christ returns. Our part is to remain faithful, do what we can/what God calls us to do, and pray, pray, pray.

 

[katy]

I understand your difficulty. In fact, it led me to leave the Church for about 10 years. Then I stumbled on a small parish where there were people (not all of course) and priest who were enthusiastic about their faith. There was also a prayer group where we study and pray together. I wish I had looked harder and not assumed all parishes were as you describe.
I had the same feeling that you have had; that the Church I thought I had come into didn’t really exist. It does, though, and it is worth looking for. You also have the advantage of the Web where there are many faithful sites. Perhaps the Coming Home Network operated by Marcus Grodi, a former Protestant pastor, would be of help.
chnetwork.org/

 

[johnnyc176]

There are Bible studies in English, but they are lead by the same liberal-leaning priests.

You should go to these Bible studies. Just because they are led by priests doesn’t mean you can’t speak up for the Truth if they are teaching error.

I believe in the teachings of the Catholic church, but I am not sure I would tell someone they should become Catholic because of the liberal clergy and the lack of passion for Jesus that I do not see in the priests or laity. Would you tell your coworker about Jesus, and invite him or her to a church like I have in my hometown?

How do you know there is a lack of passion for Jesus? Catholics often display that passion by spending time with Jesus in Adoration chapels. The real personal relationship with Jesus is in being a member of the Church He founded, the Catholic Church and in the Sacraments that He instituted, especially His Real Presence in the Eucharist. You can’t have more of a personal relationship with Jesus on this earth than in receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord and Savior.

Now that you have been led to the One True Church that Jesus founded why would you not want to invite others to the fullness of Truth?

 

[glendab]

Hello Clearwater.

In recent years, I haven´t really had as much experience with priests like that, as much. The priests here I’ve crossed paths with of late either give no penance or a VERY light one.

I still go to church but am now questioning my faith. At times, it’s been put to the test in some ways. The outcome still remains to be seen.

What actually gets me “down”, as much, or probably more than some priests like the above would be sarcasm by Catholics, like on the forum. Sometimes, that discourages me probably more than anything else, truth be told.

I’ve been Catholic for a few months past 18 years, (Hmmmm…that makes me legal to vote but not to buy the champagne for New Year’s) and have gone to Confession every Saturday for all of those 18 - plus years and 99% of the time I’ve been given prayers for Penance. Only a handful of times have I been asked to do something. But as for NO PENANCE given not only has that never happened, but I think they are required by the rubrics to give one and it would be a serious omission if they didn’t. In fact, since those rubrics bind under pain of sin, it would be the same thing as skimping on a part of the Mass intentionally. I’ve had Priests who do seriously mess up the rubrics but even then a Penance is given. Maybe it is the coast I live on or something.

Glenda

 

[Lion_IRC]

…I walked out of church when our priest said all religions lead to the same God, but that is the extreme case…

Is that exactly what he said? Or is that a paraphrased version of what what you think he was saying? It’s a heavily-loaded philosophical statement, and since there is only ONE God, it’s basically correct to say that all religions which seek divine Truth, are aiming in roughly, hit-or-miss, the same approximate direction.

…And secondly, I have found that there aren’t many happy Catholics.

I’m happy. Please add me to your list.

…In my Protestant church, there were many people who were genuinely in love with Jesus. There were few people who went to church because they felt obligated.

Love, honor, duty, gratitude, obedience, worship, fear, praise, repentance - there are many reasons people find themselves in Church.
I wouldn’t want to rush into judgement of peoples “apparent” motives.
Heaven forbid I should misjudge all those happy, smiling, singing, laughing, fellow-shipping people in another church and wrongly accuse them of not taking God seriously enough.

…It seems to me that the opposite is true in the Catholic church: there are few who attend church who appear to be there because they love God, and many are there because they feel obligated (I am making observations of the people I see, and the people I have spoken to)

This is a pretty harsh “observation”.
I feel obligated to worship God. What’s wrong with that?
I feel bad/sad when I don’t go to Church. Should I ignore those feelings?

…When I showed up to church for the first time, no one greeted me, and Christ was only mentioned in the liturgical prayers…

At almost every single Mass I have ever attended the priests always open with a welcome and an invitation to the congregation to turn and greet the person on either side.
And most Masses include an exchange of the sign of peace right after the Our Father.
Plus, the priest very often exchanges greetings with parishioners outside the church as people are leaving. (And asking the names of people he doesn’t recognize.)

…
…Would you tell your coworker about Jesus, and invite him or her to a church like I have in my hometown?

Yes.
And I would warmly greet them on arrival and try to make them feel at home in your “hometown church”.

 

[AngloCath4]

Lion IRC, nope, that’s what he said. I wasn’t the only one to walk out, either. But you’re right, maybe that’s not what he meant. But it sure sounded unChristian, and I obviously wasn’t the only one who took that way.

I am a sensitive person to a fault, and when I see people just going through the motions without emotion, it affects me. Sorry. So I wanted advice on this topic, and I have got it. This is a wonderful place to share our thoughts and concerns, and this thread happens to be a concern.

 

[JamalChristophr]

One has to think hard whether they believe in the Eucharist or not. If they no longer believe, that is one thing, but for one who recognizes the Eucharist as the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ…

“To whom shall we go??” Another church that is somehow better? Wealth? Pleasure? Power? Honor, fame, and glory? Nor for me anyways, though I am tempted for sure at times. Not by other churches, though.

It’s more what is wrong with us, not the Church.

 

[glendab]

Hello AngloCath4.

Lion IRC, nope, that’s what he said. I wasn’t the only one to walk out, either. But you’re right, maybe that’s not what he meant. But it sure sounded unChristian, and I obviously wasn’t the only one who took that way.

I am a sensitive person to a fault, and when I see people just going through the motions without emotion, it affects me. Sorry. So I wanted advice on this topic, and I have got it. This is a wonderful place to share our thoughts and concerns, and this thread happens to be a concern.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. The Priest is wrong in his personal theology and for expressing in to others who hold a different theology, namely a Catholic one, and you are wrong for using his faults as an excuse for acting out on yours and abandoning Jesus. If lousy theology cleared the pews you’d hear the crickets chirping in more than one place where Mass used to be. There is a spate of lousy theology afflicting more than one faithful Catholic these days. You should just buck up and suffer along with the rest of us and of course, come here to CAF and vent about it every so often just to get it off your chest. If you can, visit a monastery in your area that allows outsiders in, perhaps a Carmel or something like it just to re-charge your spiritual batteries after a particularly grueling homily from Father Liberalitis.

Glenda