What's wrong with the Cathokic church? Help!

[YADA]

Why are you looking only for a bible study led by a priest? If you are in an urban area with 10 parishes - they are probably very large. So I belong to two parishes - one very large urban and one very small rural.

At the rural parish I might expect more instruction by the local priest but not all parish programs can be led by the priest … He is after all only one person with both a parish and a mission almost an hour away - And it is 20 miles to the nearest hospital when a parishioner is hospitalized.

At the larger parish - even with 2 priests - to provide priest led bible studies for over 2000 families … it isn’t happening. We have a very active team that looks at adult education … they provide oversight and selection of the parish wide Lenten Small Faith Sharing Groups … these are primarily Bible studies and Evangelization focused. They also purchase books that are given to every family at the Christmas Masses [parishioner and visitor]. bring in guest speakers, and many other faith opportunities.

I have been a member of the parish Pastoral Council and Administrative Council - programs within the parish depend on the involvement and support of the parish members and families [this includes participation and financial] and the volunteers to get the work of organization and logistics done … So if your parish is not offering something - look in the mirror. ** Get involved, make a difference, participate in a solution.**

If you want Bible Study in your parish - gather like minded parishioners - open your home or schedule a room at the parish and study the scriptures. Look for a program or write one with others [our first Lenten Small Faith Sharing programs were written by parishioners with our priest - that same program has been shared with parishes far and wide through the intervening 20 years]. There are many fine faithful programs available. In our parish - the parish purchases the work books to get the bulk price discount - but participants pay between $5 and $10 [depends on the program cost] to cover the actual cost …

A typical Lent has about 30% of the families signed up and participating through Lent - meeting one night per week in groups of 5-12 people …coming together to learn and share their faith - in fellowship … try it … its wonderful

 

[AngloCath4]

Well, I have a big problem with any leader of any Christian church giving the ‘all roads lead to god’ answer. I think I am mature enough in doctrine to know when I am being lead astray, but what about those who just assume that every word out of a priest’s mouth is true?

I’m not abandoning Jesus, or leaving the church. And from what the others have said on this thread I have a new angle, and new strategy, for dealing with what I don’t like. You have all said very insightful things, and I am ready and willing to learn.

 

[Della]

Well, I have a big problem with any leader of any Christian church giving the ‘all roads lead to god’ answer.

It may be that the priest was using a shorthand explanation (usually a bad idea because people can definitely misunderstand/be led astray) of this teaching found in the Catechism:

Possible salvation of non-Christians: #s 846-848.

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

That’s quite a bit to try to explain in one salient sentence. It might have been better if he’d said nothing at all, especially if he wasn’t going to clarify his meaning.

I think I am mature enough in doctrine to know when I am being lead astray, but what about those who just assume that every word out of a priest’s mouth is true?

We all should be mature in our knowledge of doctrine, but it’s true that people will take a priest’s offhand remark and run with it, especially if they think it will let them off the hook for some sin. Still, we need to be discerning just as we need to give the priest the opportunity to explain what he meant.

I’m not abandoning Jesus, or leaving the church. And from what the others have said on this thread I have a new angle, and new strategy, for dealing with what I don’t like. You have all said very insightful things, and I am ready and willing to learn.

After having been a Catholic for about 25 years I have experienced very good priests, holy priests and not so good priests, but they were all priests, ordained to do God’s work of ministry. So, whether we agree with what they say/do or understand them or not, we need to pray for them because they very much need our prayers.

 

[Mummsie]

Anglo-Catholic,

There have been many excellent posts to help with the issues you’ve described. I will only add 2 suggestions.

1. Consider talking to the liberal priest. I have taken the step of giving the priest feedback and asking for clarification on his sermon. This may or may not give you the desired result; but, at least you can get a little more insight into his thinking.
2. In the “cold” churches, ask the priest if you can begin to Greet the parishioners as they enter. As you said, a simple smile can go a long way in warming things up. I’ve done this in our church and several others have found their niche in Greeting. One lady I had never seen smile. When she started Greeting, she absolutely blossomed. Another totally uninvolved lady is now leading a hugging revolution. That always brings smiles to the parishioners or guests.

And I will echo many other posters suggestion of PRAY. Pray for the priest. Pray for your fellow parishioners. Pray and ask God what he wants you to do.

God Bless you.

 

[Faith1960]

It’s generally true that the typical Catholic at Sunday Mass doesn’t fully appreciate the treasure he has in the Catholic faith and doesn’t value the Word of God as much as some in non-Catholic churches. But since you aren’t that type of Catholic, you can give a good example to your brothers and sisters in the parish of what the fullness of the faith looks like in an on-fire Catholic. In fact, maybe you’re the catalyst God is going to use to completely change the lukewarm atmosphere at your parish.

With ten churches in your area I’d be surprised if there weren’t at least a few orthodox priests serving in that area. If you know any like-minded Catholics who get around to the different parishes I’d ask them for recommendations.

Finally, remember that the people who go to daily Mass certainly aren’t there merely out of a sense of obligation. Also, many parishes have one or more smaller groups where on-fire types gravitate. It might be a Marian prayer group or a charismatic prayer group. If you’re looking for some enthusiastic folks with whom y ou can fellowship, you’ll likely find them there.

Good advise. I agree that the OP should be able to find like- minded people out of 10 parishes.

 

[Faith1960]

In my experience as a convert I was happy to not have people into all my business at church. It’s one thing to have a close community, but it all too often descends into judging who is “truly” spiritual and who isn’t. There’s a downside to such closeness that many seem to ignore/gloss over or simply never take into account. But weighed heavily on me as a Protestant.

The Catholic Church is open to all–the lukewarm as well as the very devout. No one can determine how friendly Catholics are by how they come and go from Mass. For Catholics Mass is not a social event, but strictly one of worship. Afterwards, during coffee and donuts is where people talk to each other. Also, many have families with children who need to be fed at home–there are very few after-church potluck dinners at Catholic parishes.

If new people wish to get to know other people in their parish they might want to join a parish group–usually there are many doing different things from the practical to the spiritual. If there isn’t a suitable group, such as Bible study or prayer group, talk to the pastor about having one set up. Just be prepared to get good materials for it and to lead it. The person who feels the need for a ministry is usually asked to lead it.

The Church is not a enclave for saints, rather it is a hospital for sinners. We are all sinners. It’s better to look to our own spiritaul needs first and then help our brethren with theirs. If there are extraordinary hindrances, then pray that God will open ways for you to find what you need.

We have to remember that priests are people too. They weren’t hatched out of eggs as priests. And they live in the same societies we do with the same temptations all around them. It can be as hard for them to follow the Gospel as any layman, even more so when there is so much pressure on them to go along to get along. Their people might not want to hear the truth, so they give in. Sure, that’s a failing, but we all fail God. They have a greater burden to bear, and will face a greater judgment, so we need to pray and pray hard for them.

Sorry to write so much, but there are many factors that go into the ordoxdoxy/heterodoxy of any parish. I believe we should help where we can, if we can. But even if we can’t change things we can always pray. The Church has had to deal with such issues from the very start and will have to deal with them until Christ returns. Our part is to remain faithful, do what we can/what God calls us to do, and pray, pray, pray.

Speaking of potluck dinners, a good place to meet others is during Lent, at parish Fish Frys And Lent is just a month and a half away.

 

[Faith1960]

Hello Clearwater.

I’ve been Catholic for a few months past 18 years, (Hmmmm…that makes me legal to vote but not to buy the champagne for New Year’s) and have gone to Confession every Saturday for all of those 18 - plus years and 99% of the time I’ve been given prayers for Penance. Only a handful of times have I been asked to do something. But as for NO PENANCE given not only has that never happened, but I think they are required by the rubrics to give one and it would be a serious omission if they didn’t. In fact, since those rubrics bind under pain of sin, it would be the same thing as skimping on a part of the Mass intentionally. I’ve had Priests who do seriously mess up the rubrics but even then a Penance is given. Maybe it is the coast I live on or something.

Glenda

All my penance except one was to pray, or read the daily reading prior to Mass. Once I was told to offer a mass for someone, another time, the last time I went, I don’t think I was given one, or if I was, it was forgettable.
I’ve never heard of knee walking but if a priest told us to do that, I’d go elsewhere.

 

[Faith1960]

Hello AngloCath4.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. The Priest is wrong in his personal theology and for expressing in to others who hold a different theology, namely a Catholic one, and you are wrong for using his faults as an excuse for acting out on yours and abandoning Jesus. If lousy theology cleared the pews you’d hear the crickets chirping in more than one place where Mass used to be. There is a spate of lousy theology afflicting more than one faithful Catholic these days. You should just buck up and suffer along with the rest of us and of course, come here to CAF and vent about it every so often just to get it off your chest. If you can, visit a monastery in your area that allows outsiders in, perhaps a Carmel or something like it just to re-charge your spiritual batteries after a particularly grueling homily from Father Liberalitis.

Glenda

We have a monastery nearby and I love to go, light a candle and pray. Depending on the time I go, I sometimes get to hear the nuns singing. Very peaceful.

 

[Faith1960]

Hello AngloCath4.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. The Priest is wrong in his personal theology and for expressing in to others who hold a different theology, namely a Catholic one, and you are wrong for using his faults as an excuse for acting out on yours and abandoning Jesus. If lousy theology cleared the pews you’d hear the crickets chirping in more than one place where Mass used to be. There is a spate of lousy theology afflicting more than one faithful Catholic these days. You should just buck up and suffer along with the rest of us and of course, come here to CAF and vent about it every so often just to get it off your chest. If you can, visit a monastery in your area that allows outsiders in, perhaps a Carmel or something like it just to re-charge your spiritual batteries after a particularly grueling homily from Father Liberalitis.

Glenda

We have a monastery nearby and I love to go, light a candle and pray. Depending on the time I go, I sometimes get to hear the nuns singing. Very peaceful.

 

[glendab]

Hello Faith.

We have a monastery nearby and I love to go, light a candle and pray. Depending on the time I go, I sometimes get to hear the nuns singing. Very peaceful.

Yeah and if I was twenty years younger and not disabled, I’d go in a heartbeat and pray for the rest of my life. Oh well. There is a lovely Benedictine place that is growing ever so slowly restoring the life St. Benedict intended www.benedictinesofmary.org and they are so beautiful. If I’d been a Catholic in my teens I’d have gone to such a place and thought I’d gone to Heaven.

Glenda