What's wrong with The Douay-Rheims?

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What are the arguments against using the Douay-Rheims-Challoner?I want to be able to use it for the lectio divina devotion, and also to study off of, but I want to make sure that it is a secure bible I can trust (since it was translated from the Vulgate).

My sponsor (as I am part of the RCIA) supposedly heard about the reasons why not to use the DRV, but I would like to know what are they in it. Are there any things that deviate from Catholic doctrine or such?
 
I’m interested in the answer also. I’ve heard that it is the best.
 
I’ve heard a lot of good about it. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with it. Perhaps this could be a question for the apologists.
 
The question should be want is wrong with the NAB translation.

I far as I am concerned there is one verse that you can check to determine the quality of a bibl translation; that is Luke 1:28.

Luke 1:28 Vulgate
“et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus”

Luke 1:28 from DRV
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luke 1:28 from NAB off the USCCB website
And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

The NAB translation of this verse is disgraceful. … got a crying baby got go!
 
Nothing wrong with the Douay Rhiems.

But no translation is pefect even it has its weaknesses but its a literal version and is better than most modern translations.

The weakness oftne cited is that it is based on the vulgate and not the original text but even this argument is not entirely true as it was revised by Bishop Channoller using the original languages as consideration in translation it was checked with the original languages if the vulgate was left wanting the original text often won out. However the main weakness is that it is in archaic language.
And in some ways that is the weakness of the modern reader not knowing a richer, older english. If your faimiliar with this stule of the King James style english you will do fine. If you grew up with the NAB or NIV then you might have problems understanding the translation. SOmetimes the Douy drops in some latin terms that don’t translate well but that’s not as often as one would think and most relegated to the OT for some reason the NT reads a lot easier than the OT which can have some latinism.

Anyway that’s my opinoin I like the catholic RSV a little better because it reads a little easier and doesn’t have the occasional latism but I do like the Douay Rheims as a second alternative its not the only transaltion that is good obviously and is only a translation. Let’s not get like the funies and declare a King James Only status to the Douay Rheims its a godd translation this is not perfect and due to its age is not for everybody.
 
The DR is great. I love it. The biggest knock on it is that it’s a translation of a translation. St. Jerome translated the Greek and Hebrew into Latin (the Vulgate) and then the Vulgate was later translated into English. It can also be a little choppy to read since it’s a pretty literal translation (as opposed to dynamic) and it’s in an older style of English. Here’s an online version with great footnotes (just watch for the SSPX stuff that’s also on this site).

www.drbo.org
 
There’s nothing wrong with the DR translation doctrinally (I assume you mean the Challoner revision), but you should recognize a few things about the translation.

(1) The Challoner revision of the DR is not as literal of a translation of the Latin Vulgate in many passages as the Confraternity revision of the DR New Testament. So use the Confraternity revision of the DR New Testament rather than the Challoner revision.

(2) The Challoner revision of the DR relies on St. Jerome’s Latin translation of Psalms from the Greek Septuagint. St. Jerome also did a Latin translation of Psalms from the Hebrew, which frankly is a much better translation of Psalms than his translation from the Greek Septuagint. You may want a translation that relies on St. Jerome’s Latin translation of the Psalms from the Hebrew instead of the Greek.

(3) The Challoner revision as well as the Latin Vulgate don’t always accurately translate a passage from the Hebrew and the Greek (although they’re generally accurate).
 
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boppysbud:
Speakest thou like unto this?
Yea, I may speak unto thee as the man that readeth upon the words of God… Dost thou use the DRV in accord with some of thy Christian brethren? 😛

Thanks for all your (name removed by moderator)ut! I’m also thankful most of the information I already know, (except for the fact of how the psalms was translated from the greek instead of the hebrew text… but I only enjoy the psalms as prayers anyways ^_^) I use drbo.org regularly, and I use the DRV on my E-Sword bible program! I’m that desperate in purchasing a leather bounded version of it…

Actually, I feel that generally, the DR(C)V reads so much easier than the KJV. Either way, I enjoy the language (makes the bible exciting for me to read, unlike that NAB… shudder), and the traditional ambience it has as a classic translation.

I just hope that there weren’t any doctrinal/major translation problems, and if that were the case, I guess I would have purchased a RSV-CE compact bible.
 
I also agree that it is what is wrong with other Catholic Bibles which makes the Douay-Rheims preferable.

I’m halfway through my second reading of the New American Bible.

I find the Amercan-isms in the N.A.B. extremely jarring; an example:

“Had we not dilly-dallied, we could have been there and back twice by now!” Gen 43:10 :confused:

The more I read the N.A.B., the more of a “Douay-Rheims Only-ist” I become!

Today America is torn in a, so-called, “culture war” where the political left openly reinterprets American history to foist its own agenda on a new generation. The politically correct and American trope couched interpretation found in the New American Bible is a result of this “culture war” with the acknowledged massive homosexual infiltration of the Catholic Church influencing the language of the N.A.B…

**The advantage of the Douay-Rheims Bible is that it is time tested and proven! Its classic language and traditional interpretation has withstood the test of time. **

The Douay-Rheims Bible makes the simple demand of Americans to understand their own mother tongue - English. A simple example of basic English grammar:

The ‘ye’ found in the Douay-Rheims Bible is an ancient runic letter (known as ‘thorn’) which is a contracted form of ‘the’ and is pronounced the same. (Only the Quakers in America have been known to pronounce ‘ye’ as ‘yee’).

Another simple example of 4th grade English grammar is the ‘trope’. Tropes are figures of speech, that is, Slang. And the New American Bible is littered with American tropes. The use of contemporary tropes was avoided in the Douay-Rheims Bible.

Tropes: nipissingu.ca/faculty/williams/figofspe.htm#tropes

I only keep my N.A.B. because certain instructors in Church classes and workshops I attend use it. Otherwise my Douay-Rheims is my personal official Catholic Bible. 👍
 
my favorite version for private devotional reading remains the Confraterinity version of the DR-C, because it is the one I grew up with. Original DR now being reprinted by Tan is useful for comparison with other versions, but to archaic and distracting for devotional use (for me). I also like the 1966 Jerusalem bible for lectio divina, but because it is so big it is hard to hold (I have arthritis).

I use the NAB for all CCD and RCIA classes because it is the version used in the lectionary for Mass, and I was not on the committee that voted on this selection, but that’s the way it is for now. Since most reliable bible studies I use and Vatican documents translated into English use the RSV-CE, that is what I use for bible study, either personal or classes I initiate.
 
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EUSTACHIUS:
The question should be want is wrong with the NAB translation.

I far as I am concerned there is one verse that you can check to determine the quality of a bibl translation; that is Luke 1:28.

Luke 1:28 Vulgate
“et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus”

Luke 1:28 from DRV
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luke 1:28 from NAB off the USCCB website
And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

The NAB translation of this verse is disgraceful. … got a crying baby got go!
I think the Douay Rheims annd the Vulgate are wrong on this verse.

I just noticed that difference the other day. I was posting that verse to defend something, can’t remember what. And I tried to post the NAB version, but I noticed it did not have the “blessed art thou among women” part. I looked at the Greek NT and saw that that is not included in the Greek and I noticed that most versions of the bible do not include it.

That said, I think the Douay Rheims is much better than almost every other translation.
 
I got a DRV Bible because I thought it would be cool to read at adoration. Let’s just say, it’s like skipping through tar. It’s very slow going. You sometimes have to re-read parts.

I know there are those that defend this type of version, and I can certainly respect it, but for everyday use it is hard. I went to an Anglican Use parish for 4 years and loved how the Mass was said in Elizabethian English. I thought it dignified the liturgy dramatically. However, if you are wanting to be a daily Scripture “junkie” and soak in the text, then I wouldn’t recommend this version.

I would, however, love to see what it would be like if the DRV was read at Mass.

Hmmmmmmmmm…:hmmm:
 
I just pulled out my Orthodox study bible, and they have the “blessed art thou among women” part. In a footnote regarding the “blessed art thou among women” part, it says “NU omits”. This is also the NKJV version, so that also says it. I am really confused about this now. Which one is correct?
 
Okay, related question: I was looking at the lectionary today, and it described the text as “neo-vulgate”. What exactly does that mean?
 
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Windmill:
I got a DRV Bible because I thought it would be cool to read at adoration. Let’s just say, it’s like skipping through tar. It’s very slow going. You sometimes have to re-read parts.

I know there are those that defend this type of version, and I can certainly respect it, but for everyday use it is hard. I went to an Anglican Use parish for 4 years and loved how the Mass was said in Elizabethian English. I thought it dignified the liturgy dramatically. However, if you are wanting to be a daily Scripture “junkie” and soak in the text, then I wouldn’t recommend this version.

I would, however, love to see what it would be like if the DRV was read at Mass.

Hmmmmmmmmm…:hmmm:

OTOH, the NT was not written in the Greek equivalent of Elizabethan English - Shakespeare, who did write in such English, is very heavy going at times.​

Isn’t it better understand what the NT writers are saying ? 🙂
Why is it so important for them to speak in a stately idiom which is 250 years old, and therefore risks hiding the meaning it seeks to convey ? Bishop Challoner modernised the DR, precisely because it was so old-fashioned that it was not getting the meaning across: he was, to a great extent, doing the same kind of thing that makers of modern versions do. The Vulgate took a couple of centuries to establish itself - there was a riot at one church, when it was frst made available, because the rendering of a word in the book of Jonah was untraditional, unfamiliar, and therefore, unwanted.

Modern Bibles are to be made from the original languages, not from Latin - see Pius XII in Divino Afflante Spiritu, 1943. Subsequent Popes, & Vatican II have confirmed this decision. Which is probably why the Challoner Bible is no longer read at Mass. (The Knox Bible - the NT was published in 1945 - is sometimes used in the Liturgy of the 1962 Missal, in the UK at least.)

The AV - known to some as the KJV - and the Challoner Bible are not much good for the Psalms. I’m told the Hebrew of the Psalms, and of Job, is pretty hard going. Challoner preserves Latinisms such as “Cocytus” in the Psalms, which is not helpful if one does not have a Classical background.

Some parts of the commentary accompanying the text of the Challoner revision has been rendered out of date by the great changes in knowledge of the background of the Bible which have come about since 1840 or so - archaeology barely existed in 1750.

The Challoner version has also been left behind, like the AV, by improved understanding of NT Greek, as well as by the growth of textual criticism (which got going only in the 1700s; as the CC was still wedded to the Vulgate of 1592, this had little effect or none on Challoner’s work).

Challoner’s use of proof-texts is not in favour now either - the Bible is now read as far as possible in its context, which has done a lot for a better understanding of the literal sense, and has discouraged the reading of Isaiah as though he were referring to the Church rather than to Judah, for example.

Which is why I hardly ever use Challoner’s version, or the Haydock edition of it. Haydock has far more notes, so it is interesting for the history of interpretation. ##
 
I would just like to say the perfect Bible tranlation will likely never exist, because they are all trying to cater to conflicting needs.

Since the original Word was spoken in different language and in different times, meaning different styles, there is always a conflict of blending readability with “true translation” which may be difficult to understand to today’s reader. This can never change.

That is why IMHO having multiple Bibles is the way to go, as I can use “easy to read” to get the gist of a verse, then read “literal translation” to get an appreication of how it was said back then knowing the intent of the verse. That’s very rewarding to me.
 
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