What's wrong with this church?

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redkim:
That’s Mary? It looks like she’s doing some sort of yogic pose or something…
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OH THE HORROR!!!
 
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JGC:
Anyway, before the priest arrived for the summer to celebrate daily mass, I attended the (I think) Cathedral in Gaylord. Maybe an off day but a dreadful liturgy and I still remember to this day a timpani drum!
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My family has a cabin on a lake just south of Gaylord, so when I’m up there, that’s where I attend Mass. My impression? I’ll be kind and call it “interesting”. The parishoners were extremely friendly and there was a great deal of participation in the liturgy, but my home parish in Dearborn looks a lot more like a cathedral than Gaylord’s cathedral. I also seem to remember not being able to track down a hymnal (it’s been a couple of years since I’ve been there so it’s a bit fuzzy).
 
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SeekerJen:
My family has a cabin on a lake just south of Gaylord, so when I’m up there, that’s where I attend Mass.
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Houghton or Higgins lake? Just went up there with the kids yesterday…absolutely gorgeous!

Maybe one of these days you and I can meet for mass in Saginaw and you can share your thoughts. Coming from the phenomenal St. Mikes and St. Vincent de Paul in Chicago, I’m feeling a little biased against some of the churches around here. Though I must say that one of the most precious local parishes is St. Anne’s in Edenville…tiny little building way back from the road overlooking a lake…and kneelers that get used and a priest who still remembers Latin.
 
loyola rambler:
Houghton or Higgins lake? Just went up there with the kids yesterday…absolutely gorgeous!
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Otsego Lake, actually. I’m not kidding when I say it’s just south of Gaylord- we’re about 1.5 miles out of the actual city, and the cabin address is listed as Gaylord. It is beautiful up there.

I don’t think I’ve ever been to a Mass in the diocese of Saginaw. Detroit, Lansing, Gaylord and Marquette, yes. Saginaw, no. We should definitely meet up sometime, now my curiosity is piqued.🙂
 
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SeekerJen:
Otsego Lake, actually. I’m not kidding when I say it’s just south of Gaylord- we’re about 1.5 miles out of the actual city, and the cabin address is listed as Gaylord. It is beautiful up there.

I don’t think I’ve ever been to a Mass in the diocese of Saginaw. Detroit, Lansing, Gaylord and Marquette, yes. Saginaw, no. We should definitely meet up sometime, now my curiosity is piqued.🙂
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Hey SeekerJen and Loyola!

Grace and peace to you both. I have attended Mass at the Gaylord Cathedral many times. I live in the Diocese. Bishop Cooney does, indeed, have a sense of the Holy and Orthodox.

They are currently undergoing a remodel, apparently. I am not sure if it the Cathedral or the parish hall.

I would love to meet up with you guys somewhere, too!

By the way, St. Mary’s Cathedral (the atrocity we have been discussing) USED to be an absolutely beautiful cathedral until it was gutted by Untener.

Mike
 
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MikeMaturenMDiv:
Hey SeekerJen and Loyola!

Grace and peace to you both. I have attended Mass at the Gaylord Cathedral many times. I live in the Diocese. Bishop Cooney does, indeed, have a sense of the Holy and Orthodox.

They are currently undergoing a remodel, apparently. I am not sure if it the Cathedral or the parish hall.

I would love to meet up with you guys somewhere, too!

By the way, St. Mary’s Cathedral (the atrocity we have been discussing) USED to be an absolutely beautiful cathedral until it was gutted by Untener.

Mike
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USED to be is right. I thought the first renovations in the 80s were bad…taking out the pews and kneelers and putting in cushy chairs that got rearranged every few weeks…taking out the carved altar and putting a square in the middle. Then they took out 25% of that seating, the crucifix and chapel. What’s left is a good mass from the homily standpoint, but an atmosphere that’s extremely lax and often feels very irreverent.
 
But what I noticed is something that occurs all too often. The priest/bishop is wearing his stole on top of the chasuble in Calvinist fashion
 
I’m still trying to figure out what looks like three big yarn tassles behind the choir are supposed to represent. :eek:
 
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PASCENDI:
But what I noticed is something that occurs all too often. The priest/bishop is wearing his stole on top of the chasuble in Calvinist fashion
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Yeah, well…he was the bishop and he died last March. So luckily there’s a new bishop coming some year or another and we’ll get a chance to fix some things.
 
loyola rambler:
Yeah, well…he was the bishop and he died last March. So luckily there’s a new bishop coming some year or another and we’ll get a chance to fix some things.
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That’s Fr. Ron Wagner…the pastor of the cathedral…
 
That is the sickest thing I have seen in a while, why would the Pope or the Bishop or someone step in and stop this abuse! Thank you
loyola rambler:
Just for kicks, please take a look at these photos of this humble little cathedral and see how many bizarre little oddities you find. Don’t let the fact that it’s a cathedral give you delusions that it’s in any way “orthodox”.

rc.net/saginaw/smc/page6.html

For extra credit, do comment on the statue of Mary in the background on the far left of the “altar”. Quite “unique”, isn’t it?
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I would not call Tom Monahan (Domino’s Pizza, Detroit Tigers, etc) a dissenter, but his idea of a church in Naples Florida (or the one he funded in Nicaragua too) is horrid. Looks like a big green house, and the one in Nicaragua is referred to as the nipple-dome. He was and propably still is a lover of Frank Lloyd Wright arch. but really, give me a church from the middle ages over most gymnasiums of today.
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From what I understand, he is a FLW lover. Most of the Churches in my area were built in that era, ugh! Good news though, the big greenhouse is being redesigned. Even Monohan didn’t like it.
 
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deaconswife:
The one item in the picture that most puzzled me was the large white screen behind the altar in the Christmas 2002 picture. It looks like a movie screen. Does the church supplement its collections by showing movies during the week?
😉
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That looks like the size of the Movie Screen our new Priest added to our Sacristy during Masses. Wonder if he visited this church before he came to our Church. It is VERY distracting!

During Mass, the other Priest accidentally walked into the Screen and it almost fell over.

When we first saw the Movie Screen, my husband mentioned selling popcorn at one of the Church doors.

:blessyou:
Annie
 
The statue is of Mary of the Assumption as she is the patron saint of this cathedral and is meant to represent Mary as she is being taken up to heaven. A question asking what is happening would be so much more appropriate than snide comments!
 
UGH!!! I went to the links page, the rag “The National Catholic Reporter” was recommended weekly reading! :eek: Also, when you go the Sacraments link, there is no mention of the Sacrament of Rconciliation, or any times for it.:nope:

Everyone in this diocese is in my prayers.
 
Tantum ergo:
The church needs to have a crucifix, true. (Part of the GIRM).
And some of the “art” is definitely an acquired taste.
But did you check the links to see more about what people in this parish DO?

I did.
I saw the children having their first Eucharist–and an emphasis directly stated that Jesus was PRESENT in the bread and wine.

I saw the corporal works of mercy laid out, and groups in which to do them.

I don’t know–I suppose I could be in the most beautiful looking church, full of stained glass windows, offering Perpetual Adoration, Lady chapels, statues of saints, holy cards, candles etc.

but if the people there were just “Christmas elves and Easter bunnies”, or worse yet, the sort of “Sunday Catholic” who prided him or herself on the EXTERNALS of what their church LOOKED like yet did NOTHING else,

I think I’d prefer being in even an architectural monstrosity, provided the people took their stewardship and faith seriously.
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Oh, so would I, obviously, and so would any Christian, Catholic or otherwise.

BUT…

Why on earth is it an either/or? Is it impossible to be faithful to the Magisterium, to obey the GIRM, to do as the Holy Father asks, and also to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and visit those in prison?

Furthermore, I am seriously worried by the teaching that our Lord is PRESENT IN the bread and the wine. This is not, and never has been, Catholic teaching: it’s (roughly speaking) Lutheran. Our faith, based on our Lord’s words at the Last Supper, tells us that what looks like bread and wine is, in fact, now completely and totally His Body and Blood: that only the appearances are left of what was the bread and wine. Otherwise, when we adore the Blessed Sacrament and give the Host divine honours, we would be committing idolatry: just as we would if we bowed down to our neighbour when, after Communion, he returns to the pew next to us on the grounds that he has the Living Lord present in him. So he does: but we’re not allowed to worship him on that account.

While it’s clearly true that there are worse things than stripped-down sanctuaries and priests wearing their stoles outside their chasubles, that doesn’t actually neutralise the fact that there is indeed a great deal of disobedience going on here, and many people have been scandalised (in the proper sense - have found it a stumbling block) as a result. If you are stopped by a traffic policeman for speeding, it will not do you much good to ask why he isn’t out catching murderers, although you may, understandably, feel that it’s more important to catch murderers than to stop people going at 80mph. And it could also be pointed out that the laws are there for a reason: that driving too fast can also kill. Getting rid of the ‘superficials’ of our faith may seem completely harmless, even praiseworthy (bringing us closer to the ‘separated brethren’, removing distractions, going for simplicity, etc), but it can and does lead to the murder of souls - for all sorts of reasons. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, I’ll willingly expand.

Sue
 
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Timidity:
Um, a bishop into astology would be a big deal–a very big deal. Astrology is directly contrary to the teachings of the church. First commandment, and all that.

Or was this sarcasm? Sarcasm is sometimes lost on me.
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I have seen some ugly chapels/churches outside of the U.S.A. But they all had a very nice Crucifix up behind the Altar. The Crucifix is the first thing I look at upon entering a Church. It has been pointed out that to eliminate the Crucifix in a Church is to defy the GIRM.
 
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