O
otm
Guest
Given the response of Archbishop Chaput to the issue of holding hands at the Our Father that it is not an abuse, I disagree with you.
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N
netmilsmom
Guest
In Denver and Cleveland, it is not an abuse. But in the Archdiocese of St. Louis it’s a different thing…
"Is holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer allowed or encouraged?
BCL Newsletter, October-November 1989
No. The community’s corporate act of receiving communion is the primary symbol of unity with Christ and the Church. The Sign of Peace immediately preceding the reception of Communion is a liturgical rite that should not be minimized or duplicated in any way. A separate but related issue is the situation of individuals who for personal reasons feel uncomfortable with the practice of holding hands. In this case those individuals feel increasingly excluded from the worshipping community. Sensitivity is needed to include all and draw all to the true symbol of unity."
Per this site…
archstl.org/worship/girm.html
Maybe we should check our Diocese.
L
Lanciano
Guest
If you read what was done to the Mass during te Protestant Reformation you will see the similarities in the Novus Ordo.
Altar called a table.
Priest now called a presider. (Protestant…Minister)
Altars brought down to level of the people which
brings the priest to people level.
Priest facing the people.
Sacrificial nature of the Mass not emphasized,
non existant in Protestant service.
Communion in the hand, not on the tongue.
Standing to receive communion.
Communion - both species.
Mostly sitting and standing, less kneeling.
Mass is never referred to the HOLY SACRIFICE
OF THE MASS anymore.
Mass is directed more inward into community
than upward to God.
Lessen the interersession of Mary and the Saints.
The Mass is the most perfect prayer we have, or was. It is Calvary brought to us every time it celebrated. It is an offering of a pure victim to God so we can obtain an unlimited amount of graces to help us on our way to salvation. A too great number of people think of Mass as a ‘less than an hour duty’ once a week. We need to get back to the HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS.
T
TJD
Guest
Interesting thread.
Our Parish has a fully sanctioned mass.
We have an introductory rite with a song from the hymnal, a greeting, a penitential rite, the Kyrie and Gloria. After that beautiful beginning we have the Liturgy of the Word. The lector reads from the Old Testament, unless of course it is the Easter Season, then The Choir leads us in a Psalm, then we hear the lector read something from Acts, or an Epistle, or maybe even Revelations. Then after receiving a short blessing from the priest, our deacon reads the Gospel. Most of us pay attention to all this unless one of our two year olds is uncooperative, or we just did not get enough sleep the prior night, or we may be sinfully preoccupied (Everyone really should be fully participating). Some of us like to read the readings and gospel prior to the Mass. It helps us receive The Word better during the Celebration. We know what to expect because we follow the prescribed cycle. (I do get confused on occasion due to the rearrangement of Holy days.)
After a nice homily, usually well thought out and related to the readings, and the reciting of the Nicene Creed we get to the good stuff, The Liturgy of the Eucharist. We have the offertory, the invitation and the priest prays over the gifts. Then the priest prays the Eucharistic Prayer and some of us pray that he is giving us his best. I’m sure the whole congregation believes he won’t let us down and we fully support him in his efforts.
We then have the Communion Rite started with the Lord’s Prayer. We used to hold hands, but after the GIRM was updated we no longer do. I never really liked the holding hands thing, but I still prayed the Our Father with every ounce of energy I could offer. We are now encouraged to hold our hands out with our palms up during the Lord’s Prayer. I’d prefer to simply cross my hands, but I’d rather pray together with my fellow parishioners. We then have the sign of peace. I kiss my wife; shake hands with my kids and a few people around me. The Priest breaks the bread and mingles a bit with the wine, and we sing the Lamb of God. Then I get excited because I know what comes next.
My family, and everyone else gathered who is ready, receives the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. I still don’t understand it fully but I know beyond a doubt that Jesus is there. We receive the body of Christ, after a reverent bow, on our tongue or with our hands. We also receive his precious blood (except during cold and flu season) if we desire…and I desire (even during cold and flu season). I don’t care who gives it to me, the Priest, the Deacon or a male or female extraordinary minister, I receive Jesus as only a Catholic can. He gives me great strength.
Then we have the Concluding Rite with a blessing and dismissal.
I’ve been to many a Mass in Basilicas and Cathedrals. I’ve been to Masses in Latin, Italian, Spanish, Ukrainian, and English. I do prefer to understand the Word when it is ministered, and I firmly believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist regardless. I Love Him for it.
Pride in the American Church is really getting me down. I see it rampant in those trying to assert their will and change the Church to make it better reflect themselves. I am a simple Catholic. I want a Priest as a pastor lead by a Bishop who supports and follows the Pope. I want to be part of a devout laity who supports the Church, we need to get involved. We need to work to understand the Father’s will. I want to help bring the Kingdom of Heaven here to earth. I want the devil to stay in hell and leave my family alone. Unfortunately, I often fail to do the Father’s will and I sin. The Liturgy helps me endure.
Please don’t imply that your Mass is better than mine. They both bring a little bit of heaven down to Earth. I like what I see. I hope to see more.
Christ’s Peace,
TJD
Our Parish has a fully sanctioned mass.
We have an introductory rite with a song from the hymnal, a greeting, a penitential rite, the Kyrie and Gloria. After that beautiful beginning we have the Liturgy of the Word. The lector reads from the Old Testament, unless of course it is the Easter Season, then The Choir leads us in a Psalm, then we hear the lector read something from Acts, or an Epistle, or maybe even Revelations. Then after receiving a short blessing from the priest, our deacon reads the Gospel. Most of us pay attention to all this unless one of our two year olds is uncooperative, or we just did not get enough sleep the prior night, or we may be sinfully preoccupied (Everyone really should be fully participating). Some of us like to read the readings and gospel prior to the Mass. It helps us receive The Word better during the Celebration. We know what to expect because we follow the prescribed cycle. (I do get confused on occasion due to the rearrangement of Holy days.)
After a nice homily, usually well thought out and related to the readings, and the reciting of the Nicene Creed we get to the good stuff, The Liturgy of the Eucharist. We have the offertory, the invitation and the priest prays over the gifts. Then the priest prays the Eucharistic Prayer and some of us pray that he is giving us his best. I’m sure the whole congregation believes he won’t let us down and we fully support him in his efforts.
We then have the Communion Rite started with the Lord’s Prayer. We used to hold hands, but after the GIRM was updated we no longer do. I never really liked the holding hands thing, but I still prayed the Our Father with every ounce of energy I could offer. We are now encouraged to hold our hands out with our palms up during the Lord’s Prayer. I’d prefer to simply cross my hands, but I’d rather pray together with my fellow parishioners. We then have the sign of peace. I kiss my wife; shake hands with my kids and a few people around me. The Priest breaks the bread and mingles a bit with the wine, and we sing the Lamb of God. Then I get excited because I know what comes next.
My family, and everyone else gathered who is ready, receives the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. I still don’t understand it fully but I know beyond a doubt that Jesus is there. We receive the body of Christ, after a reverent bow, on our tongue or with our hands. We also receive his precious blood (except during cold and flu season) if we desire…and I desire (even during cold and flu season). I don’t care who gives it to me, the Priest, the Deacon or a male or female extraordinary minister, I receive Jesus as only a Catholic can. He gives me great strength.
Then we have the Concluding Rite with a blessing and dismissal.
I’ve been to many a Mass in Basilicas and Cathedrals. I’ve been to Masses in Latin, Italian, Spanish, Ukrainian, and English. I do prefer to understand the Word when it is ministered, and I firmly believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist regardless. I Love Him for it.
Pride in the American Church is really getting me down. I see it rampant in those trying to assert their will and change the Church to make it better reflect themselves. I am a simple Catholic. I want a Priest as a pastor lead by a Bishop who supports and follows the Pope. I want to be part of a devout laity who supports the Church, we need to get involved. We need to work to understand the Father’s will. I want to help bring the Kingdom of Heaven here to earth. I want the devil to stay in hell and leave my family alone. Unfortunately, I often fail to do the Father’s will and I sin. The Liturgy helps me endure.
Please don’t imply that your Mass is better than mine. They both bring a little bit of heaven down to Earth. I like what I see. I hope to see more.
Christ’s Peace,
TJD
L
Lanciano
Guest
T
TJD
Guest
Sorry if I poked anyone. Lately I find myself being a bit defensive. I did sense an attitude as I read through the entire thread. From what I read however, it seems most everyone loves the Church and takes its Liturgy very seriously. For that, thanks.
I do think the Liturgy needs to be understood in its entirety, from the consecration out. It is all important. None of it stands alone. The Paschal Mystery is celebrated and Jesus is glorified for his sacrifice.
As long as we have a Pope and Bishop standing behind our Priests we should take comfort in the beauty of those Liturgies in which we participate. It also helps to know that there are Catholics around the world celebrating the Liturgy in Communion with us.
Pray Hard!
TJD
.
I do think the Liturgy needs to be understood in its entirety, from the consecration out. It is all important. None of it stands alone. The Paschal Mystery is celebrated and Jesus is glorified for his sacrifice.
As long as we have a Pope and Bishop standing behind our Priests we should take comfort in the beauty of those Liturgies in which we participate. It also helps to know that there are Catholics around the world celebrating the Liturgy in Communion with us.
Pray Hard!
TJD
.
I
iowastate
Guest
Quit attending the local parish over the way they ruined the Mass. It felt like the Highway Bible church my sister used to attend. Some kids with guitars got on the alter I mean stage to accomany while the entire service was sung, beginning to end.
Worst of all was the Our Father. I was the only one that said it right, the priest, I mean minister, and congregation said the protestant version, right down to adding the extra line at the end.
How could a real priest do this???
Worst of all was the Our Father. I was the only one that said it right, the priest, I mean minister, and congregation said the protestant version, right down to adding the extra line at the end.
How could a real priest do this???
Haven´t been back It was scary.
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
My parish is very traditional. I went to the funeral Mass of a friend of mine yesterday (at another traditional parish) and was seated next to another friend who know lives in another city. My hands are clasped in prayer during the Our Father as they have been all of my life. My friend reached out three times to grab my hand. It was sooooo awkward but I’m sorry I’m not going to hold hands and (eeek!) raise them during the “For the Kingom…” etc. I couldn’t believe all the uplifted hand holds I saw!
M
metal1633
Guest
Maronite here… No Hand Holding, No Dancing Girls. A wonderfull Divine Liturgy using Aramaic.
I
InnocentIII
Guest
Where exactly did this abuse come from??? We are a very orthodox parish but some of the most devout are in truth Charismatics and hold out the hands but at least they don’t hold hands. I think it is something of which we must beware - some who appear devoted to the PRACTICES of the Church are often not devoted to the SPIRIT (can’t think of any other way to say it) of the Church. Holding out your hands in the “orans” is a one sign of this mismatch. Excessive hugging at the sign of peace another. Sadly however, many post Vatican II Catholics have never known anything else and unless the priest says something (ours does as far as the sign of peace goes) they just play along.
I
InnocentIII
Guest
AAAAGGGRRHHHH!!!
Flee now. It’s the wrinklies that are the most dangerous - they will be having you dressed in a clown suit before you can say Hail Mary
I
InnocentIII
Guest
Amen to that
I was never a fan of Fatima until very recently when I read of Pius XII (may he soon be canonised) quotes back in the 30’s. He got it spot on about what would happen to the Church. Now I am a loyal devotee to Our Lady of Fatima.
Not funny but sad. So much of what we abondoned was to “bring hte Protestants back” yet all along we had what was needed, the true faith of the Church. Why join the Catholics when you can have the same with the Baptists. When will the wilfully obtuse open their eyes to the Truth.
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