What's your opinion on Orthodoxy?

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So we mug our brothers once every 1200 years or so. Nobody’s perfect! (Besides you have 400 more years before you need to worry about us again) Heck the other 11 sons of Israel sold Joseph into Egyptian slavery and HE didn’t hold an 800 year grudge… Anyways, at least it was still Constantinople afterwards.
Orthodox may (and should) be willing to forgive the 1204 Sack of Constantinople, but the subsequent reign of Latin-imposed hierarches on the Greeks for several decades raises concern about the West’s potential for viewing the East as inferior and dealing with it in a repressive manner.
Once we became essentially foes, something rather worse happened, no?
The conquest of Constantinople and the rise of the Ottoman Empire could have been avoided if the Latins had made the single concession (if I am not mistaken) requested by St. Mark of Ephesus for reunion to take place.
That’s not gloating, mind you. The EO just had the bad luck to be mostly in between the muslim hordes and the western church. One wonders if we could have more successfully fended them off if not for the mutual distrust, suspicion and self-interest. Woulda, coulda, shoulda…
Very true. The only steps they could take now for the sake of undoing the damage are to pool Catholic and Orthodox resources in support of Fr. Zakaria Boutros and train evangelists from their respective communions not only in Arabic but also Malay/Indonesian, Javanese, Urdu, Punjabi, Bengali, the Turkic languages, Persian, Swahili, Somali, and Hausa.
 
What impresses me most about EO is their sheer durability and ability to survive in the face of tremendous external pressure, especially the constant threat of Islam over the centuries. What I wish catholics would learn from the EO is how to faithfully resist the pressures of living within a culture hostile to our faith without having to physically withdraw from that culture.

What I wish the EO would do for us catholics is to fix their IFF transponders so that they stop IDing us as ‘foes’ and opening fire. 😉
Especially in light of the fact that both sides have committed wrong-doing, e.g., the Massacre of the Latins in 1182 by the Orthodox, the sacking of Constantinople in 1204 by the Latins. . .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Latins
The last time they did that Constantinople got sacked 😃
Read the above. 🙂
 
How is a monk of another church answering a question he is asked by an interviewer about the Roman Catholic Church in any way “targeting” Catholics, Credo?
Jharek anwers it pretty good. There is a difference between answering question and throwing mud with cheap polemics.
Especially in light of the fact that both sides have committed wrong-doing, e.g., the Massacre of the Latins in 1182 by the Orthodox, the sacking of Constantinople in 1204 by the Latins. . .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Latins
If I remember correctly the Massacre of the Latins were pogroms against unpopular and greedy Venetian merchants who, ever since the chrysobull of Alexius I Comnenus, were destroying Byzantine economy.
 
Just as in the secular world, in order to truly heal a rift, it is necessary to see that such a rift is likely the result of actions of all parties involved. Humility allows one to admit their faults without necessarily compromising ones principles, in order to seek true reconciliation and mutual foregiveness. Pride, on the other hand, creates the entrenchement and hardening of the heart that derails many such attempts.
It always seemed to me that reconciliation would always be at the expense of the Catholic Church.

What sort of compromise would the Orthodox offer?
 
It always seemed to me that reconciliation would always be at the expense of the Catholic Church.

What sort of compromise would the Orthodox offer?
I believe they’re willing to grant the pope some sort of primacy.
 
Indeed, Jharek, I agree with you, but my question was: How is it targeting Catholics? This is something different than whether or not you are I find the Elder pleasant to listen to or would personally use similar rhetoric ourselves (I don’t believe either of us would). If it is his view that the Roman Catholic Church is wrong and does things for its own reasons, not necessarily solid Christian reasons, then why can he not express it without being accused of something awful?

No doubt there is a fine line to walked here if you are interested in ecumenical dialogue (something tells me the Elder in the video is not), but of course this is not an excuse to not be truthful. Ecumenism for the Orthodox is to expose the non-Orthodox to Orthodoxy, not to say that everyone may have his own theology and ecclesiology and 500 other conflicting things and still be acceptable. So at that level, I would agree with the Elder even though I’m sure the likes of him would be less than happy with my own Church communion, as well. So be it. We are Orthodox and have faith in our Church. Catholics should be saying the same, if they truly believe in these dogmas of theirs that separate them from the Orthodox.

As HH has put it, everything we do and believe must have depth and its own reasons; we do not do things for surface reasons or appearance’s sake. I suspect that you would agree HH in this point, as most Catholics would (and, if you pay close attention, HH is actually saying that the Vatican is in the right in that video clip, and is instead of the opinion that what was wrong was the apology, not the actions of the Vatican). This is how we live, and yes, sometimes it is unpleasant even to me. After all, it is much nicer to say that everyone is okay or at least minimally acceptable or whatever. But that is not the case. How we express it might differ, but no Orthodox Church in the world is going to say anything other than the Roman Catholic Church is wrong (on those things that separate it from the true faith, I mean), just like Protestants are wrong, Islam is wrong, Buddhism is wrong, Hinduism is wrong, Secularism is wrong, etc. To do anything else would be going against our own ecclesiology and really our understanding of what the Christian faith is (and isn’t).

So it’s really not targeting Catholics in particular. But context is important to understand the words, and the context of the Elder’s statements is some kind of question about Catholicism. I would feel differently if the question was asked in a different context, or of course if a question on a different topic were asked, and the Elder talked about Catholicism instead. But as it is, I think it is more important that all of us (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, whatever) be able to be serious and not compromising when looking at different faiths, or writing about comparative theology, etc.

Again, I would not talk as the Romanian elder has, but I guess I’m writing in support of his right to do so. And indeed, I don’t really see a great difference in the view of HH in the video I’ve linked above and the view of the Romanian. Very different approaches, maybe (HH was usually quite gentle), but the underlying impulse is the same, and one I agree with (defense of Orthodoxy, and rejection of non-Orthodoxy).
 
as an Anglican, I have great respect for the Orthodox churches. I have a particular affection for the Coptic Church, and I have great admiration for late Pope Shenouda.

The Coptic Church stands a witness to Christ in a particularly difficult part of the world, where hostility toward Christianity is visceral. There have been sporadic persecutions. They have also endured missionary activity from Catholics, Protestants, and Anglicans.

The Coptic Church has endured early isolation from the rest of Christianity due to the Monophysite controversy, then the onslaught of Islam.

The church founded by St. Mark has lived most of its history under the yoke of Islam.
 
I believe they’re willing to grant the pope some sort of primacy.
Well, that’s a given. I don’t see that as a compromise. If one doesn’t think the Pope should have primacy then why reconcile?

It’s the “some sort” of primacy that worries me though.
 
Well, that’s a given. I don’t see that as a compromise. If one doesn’t think the Pope should have primacy then why reconcile?

It’s the “some sort” of primacy that worries me though.
For them it is, though. They see all bishops (in theory) as equal.
 
For them it is, though. They see all bishops (in theory) as equal.
And so professes the Catholic Church, adding the notions that (i) the Pope has an individual power but (ii) such is entirely co-dependent on the unity with the Magesterium at large, and vice versa.

It is the “application of principle”, both real and theoretical, that worries the Orthodox, which surely we can appreciate from an open, objective point of view.
 
If I remember correctly the Massacre of the Latins were pogroms against unpopular and greedy Venetian merchants who, ever since the chrysobull of Alexius I Comnenus, were destroying Byzantine economy.
Well, I guess that justifies the massacre of (tens of) thousands of Latins. . . :confused:
Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware, while addressing the historical legacy of mistrust between Catholic and Orthodox Christians, has also commented on the events of 1182.
Each [Catholics and Orthodox] … must look back at the past with sorrow and repentance.
Both sides must in honesty acknowledge that they could and should have done more to
prevent the schism. Both sides were guilty of mistakes on the human level. Orthodox, for example, must blame themselves for the pride and contempt with which during the Byzantine period they regarded the west; they must blame themselves for incidents such as the riot of 1182, when many Latin residents at Constantinople were massacred by the Byzantine populace. (5)
crusades-encyclopedia.com/1182.html

From the article wherein I quoted from states that a Byzantine political crisis (with the ascension of Alexius II Comnenus) led to the massacre of the Latins in 1182.
 
Well, that’s a given. I don’t see that as a compromise. If one doesn’t think the Pope should have primacy then why reconcile?

It’s the “some sort” of primacy that worries me though.
Certainly the definition of primacy is not the same between the two communions.

For example, the primate of the RC church in the USA is the Archbishop of Baltimore (and the primate of Italy is the Archbishop of Rome). What does that mean in practice? Almost nothing. Most RC don’t even know the Archbishop of Baltimore has primacy in the USA. The position has so atrophied under the increasingly powerful papacy in recent centuries it has even lost it’s symbolic value.

Today, among RC when ‘primacy’ is mentioned it is automatically assumed to refer to papal prerogatives. People have almost all nearly completely forgotten what it used to mean in their own church.

The fact is, in the early church primacy functioned at many levels. This has never meant then that the person who has primacy has operating control over their peers. Today, of course, to RC there is only one primacy and it means the person actually has operating control everywhere.
 
You’re welcome! I wish I could answer concisely, but as you likely know, entire books have been written on this subject!

I recently completed my first reading of Rome and the Eastern Churches by Aidan Nichols. I’m a really slow and terrible reader, but I got through this book fairly quickly. While others may have differing opinions, I though it was a relatively fair and balanced study of the history of the relations of the Churches, East and West, and would recommend it if you are interested in the subject.
Thank you for the recommendation will check it out.
 
Certainly the definition of primacy is not the same between the two communions.

For example, the primate of the RC church in the USA is the Archbishop of Baltimore (and the primate of Italy is the Archbishop of Rome). What does that mean in practice? Almost nothing. Most RC don’t even know the Archbishop of Baltimore has primacy in the USA. The position has so atrophied under the increasingly powerful papacy in recent centuries it has even lost it’s symbolic value.

Today, among RC when ‘primacy’ is mentioned it is automatically assumed to refer to papal prerogatives. People have almost all nearly completely forgotten what it used to mean in their own church.

The fact is, in the early church primacy functioned at many levels. This has never meant then that the person who has primacy has operating control over their peers. Today, of course, to RC there is only one primacy and it means the person actually has operating control everywhere.
Well, that’s because it’s been declared Dogma. And if you don’t believe it, as a Catholic, you are in jeopardy of losing your soul.
 
I think that Orthodoxy is a good religion but it is not as true as Catholicism since they reject the papacy.
 
Well, that’s because it’s been declared Dogma. And if you don’t believe it, as a Catholic, you are in jeopardy of losing your soul.
I know I’m some random person but, “In jeopardy” as in a Catholic who doesn’t believe that might lose his/her soul or a Catholic who doesn’t believe that will lose his/her soul?
 
I know I’m some random person but, “In jeopardy” as in a Catholic who doesn’t believe that might lose his/her soul or a Catholic who doesn’t believe that will lose his/her soul?
Typically, ‘in jeopardy’ implies a possibility but not absolute certainty. That being said, I am no mind-reader.
 
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