What's your opinion on Orthodoxy?

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ComeHome2Rome said:
This, in addition to the other reasons I’ve outlined in prior posts, continues to confirm for me that visiting an Orthodox Mass does meet the Sunday “obligation”.
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Well, looks like you have it all figured out then. God bless!
 
All of the devout orthodox that I have come into contact with have been very disagreeable people (except for the OP of course 🙂 ). Many of them it seems are anti-Catholic for the sake of being anti-Catholic. Many of them harbor bitterness and resentment against Rome/Catholics because of things that happened over 800 years ago. Which is strange to me because A. Jesus told us very firmly that we are to forgive one another, and B. Everyone responsible for, or affected by, the atrocities committed during the crusades are now long dead, so what reason do we have to hate each other?

Anyways I respect a lot about the actual teachings of orthodoxy and I like the beauty of their liturgy but I don’t like a lot of the attitudes that have been expressed by the orthodox people that I have come into contact with.

I do think that the Orthodox have very serious problems when it comes to matters of authority, regarding councils, moral teachings, etc.
 
CompSciGuy said:
All of the devout orthodox that I have come into contact with have been very disagreeable people (except for the OP of course 🙂 ). Many of them it seems are anti-Catholic for the sake of being anti-Catholic. Many of them harbor bitterness and resentment against Rome/Catholics because of things that happened over 800 years ago. Which is strange to me because A. Jesus told us very firmly that we are to forgive one another, and B. Everyone responsible for, or affected by, the atrocities committed during the crusades are now long dead, so what reason do we have to hate each other?

Anyways I respect a lot about the actual teachings of orthodoxy and I like the beauty of their liturgy but I don’t like a lot of the attitudes that have been expressed by the orthodox people that I have come into contact with.
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Were they all from certain countries or regions? Some parts of the world have much longer histories than colonial and post-colonial North America, and their inhabitants have very long memories by comparison to, for example, WASPs in the U.S. and Canada.
 
Hesychios said:
Orthodox arguments are not directed ‘against Rome’. They are directed toward truth and in that sense are for the benefit Rome as much as for anyone else. Orthodox are for Rome, Orthodox only want the best outcome for it, which is why these discussions are so important.
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Evasive answer. Who holds the Truth, the CC makes a solid historic claim to truth. And we feel just as strongly about the East who refuse Communion to their own benefit, the worlds and Christianity.
Hesychios said:
If Protestants have learned from Orthodox positions, or have come to the same conclusions on their own, that is to their credit. Of course, these can possibly be seen as independent verifications of the correctness of early church positions and Orthodox arguments, but Orthodox need no such reassurances.
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I would say the same about Eastern Catholics. What Truth did they find? Ah… but isn’t this to their credit? Is that a verification of correctness? Are the Anglican Churchs who accept the CCC a verification of correctness? I’m sure they would give a resounding yes. That is reassurance in Communion. And Communion should be the goal. Until one can can present a logical historic factual debate through time, I would say the indefectibility is intact. The fact someone doesn’t like some aspect which they feel or think isn’t in line with what they “think” Orthodoxy is, I find that a lacking arguement. In fact that was the Protestant arguement in the nut shell during the reformation. And what did the East tell Luther? Umm… he was “wrong”.
Hesychios said:
However, that has nothing to do with the fact that the Protestant form of Christianity is a child of the Latin Catholic church. The two groups share so much in common, I really think that Rome should concentrate on restoring it’s relationships with the Protestants first.
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And it has as we see with the Anglicans and other areas which haven’t left mainline protestantism. You don’t seem to accept that Protestanism has taken further steps all on its own, which has led it further away from us. The splinter of Protestanism is a further result of itself, which it has through free will become responsible for itself. We can bring Souls to the water, they must decide to drink all on their own. And that has been a historic fact for all in history who made some claim to strike out against the Church, they came to nothing but a bleep in history, an error.
Hesychios said:
Then we can watch and see what happens to the Papal Catholic communion through that process.
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We have watched the Papal Catholic Communion for 2000 years. Since Christ estabished it I have no doubt it will be here till His return. Nothing indicates otherwise. He prayed all would be one, so do we. If fact being polite we insist… His will be done.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Well, looks like you have it all figured out then. God bless!
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🙂 Thank you & you too!

Impossible to go wrong by reading the official documents, the CCC & CCL, of our Catholic Church to determine the mind of our Church when it comes to these types of issues 🙂

In the end, I feel way more confident than I did before Because I was challenged here to locate the exact phrases in the CCC & CCL. 👍 Muchos gracios! 😃
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
Impossible to go wrong by reading the official documents, the CCC & CCL, of our Catholic Church to determine the mind of our Church when it comes to these types of issues 🙂

In the end, I feel way more confident than I did before Because I was challenged here to locate the exact phrases in the CCC & CCL. 👍 Muchos gracios! 😃
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I would still recommend talking to your parish priest (if he’s orthodox) about whether you can attend Orthodox Divine Liturgy instead of Catholic Mass on a Sunday. The CCC and CCL aren’t always easy to understand on one’s own, at least in my experience.
 
GaryTaylor (emphasis added) said:
Evasive answer. Who holds the Truth, the CC makes a solid historic claim to truth. And we feel just as strongly about the East who refuse Communion to their own benefit, the worlds and Christianity.
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Is this a Freudian slip?–You unwittingly acknowledge that the East has a “solid historic claim to truth”… 😛
 
Trebor135 said:
I would still recommend talking to your parish priest (if he’s orthodox) about whether you can attend Orthodox Divine Liturgy instead of Catholic Mass on a Sunday. The CCC and CCL aren’t always easy to understand on one’s own, at least in my experience.
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I trust the official documents of our Church written by the Magesterium of the Church.

For me to have to determine & judge the "orthodox"ness of a priest to decide if I can trust him to give me right direction in a matter he may know nothing about, just doesn’t sit right. :confused:

If I can’t trust our official Church documents to guide us correctly, then what can I trust? And what would the point of the Magesterium be if it could not provide trust worthy documents?

I’ve misspelled magesterium, but am too lazy to spell check it. 😛
 
Orthodoxy still feels “secluded” to me. It just has this feel of loneliness to it -it’s anti-papal, anti-Islam, anti-Protestant, anti-multicultural, etc… Like immigration crab legs, or tofu, they taste like fish or beef or whatever it’s supposed to be, and can even seem fresher and healthier, but it’s just not the same. Sorry… 🤷

Farewell,
TEPO
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
I trust the official documents of our Church written by the Magesterium of the Church.
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I would, too. Yet you trust the Bible enough to read it on your own (right?) while also relying on others to aid with interpreting the text correctly.
For me to have to determine & judge the "orthodox"ness of a priest to decide if I can trust him to give me right direction in a matter he may know nothing about, just doesn’t sit right. :confused:
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Well, does he talk about sin and confession in his homilies? If you’ve discussed the hot-button moral issues with him like contraception, has he commented in line with your Church’s teaching?
If I can’t trust our official Church documents to guide us correctly, then what can I trust?
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Your own discernment and that of those in authority over the faithful.

Protestants would respond similarly to how you have about the Bible: “Why do we need some man-made institution to tell us what to believe when we can just read the Word of God and decide for ourselves by the guidance of the Holy Spirit?”
And what would the point of the Magesterium be if it could not provide trust worthy documents?
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Talking to others is sometimes more instructive than reading a work put out by those who may not have had one’s particular situation in mind.
I’ve misspelled magesterium, but am too lazy to spell check it. 😛
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Magisterium. 🙂
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
I trust the official documents of our Church written by the Magesterium of the Church.

For me to have to determine & judge the "orthodox"ness of a priest to decide if I can trust him to give me right direction in a matter he may know nothing about, just doesn’t sit right. :confused:

If I can’t trust our official Church documents to guide us correctly, then what can I trust? And what would the point of the Magesterium be if it could not provide trust worthy documents?

I’ve misspelled magesterium, but am too lazy to spell check it. 😛
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The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the document says. These documents are not always clear.
 
TEPO said:
Orthodoxy still feels “secluded” to me. It just has this feel of loneliness to it -it’s anti-papal, anti-Islam, anti-Protestant, anti-multicultural, etc… Like immigration crab legs, or tofu, they taste like fish or beef or whatever it’s supposed to be, and can even seem fresher and healthier, but it’s just not the same. Sorry… 🤷
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I can understand why you would characterize the Orthodox Church as you have.

Bear in mind, however, that not too long ago Catholicism would have “[felt] ‘secluded’” just as much. Before Vatican II, it was anti-Eastern, anti-Protestant, anti-Islamic, and anti-modernist. Even “ethnic”–the Austrian/Bavarian, French, Irish, Italian, Latin American, Polish, Portuguese, and Spanish were overwhelmingly Catholic (unfortunately most of those ethno-national groups have become highly secularized since then).
 
ConstantineTG said:
As long as they stay out of Arizona, they are fine :D:D:D
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I"v never seen a Othodox Church in Arizona but we do have a monestary.
I sometimes run into a Religious at the Post Office.
Than again not two many Catholic Churches either. Lots of LDS and for some reason Lutheran.
 
gus said:
I"v never seen a Othodox Church in Arizona but we do have a monestary.
I sometimes run into a Religious at the Post Office.
Than again not two many Catholic Churches either. Lots of LDS and for some reason Lutheran.
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There are lots of Orthodox churches in Arizona. I was baptized at St. Mark Coptic Orthodox Church in Scottsdale (the main church of one of the priests who regularly serves us in Albuquerque). In addition to that, there are also Greek and OCA parishes in that city; Greek, Antiochian, and Serbian parishes in Phoenix; a ROCOR (Russian Orthodox) parish in Chandler; and another Coptic Orthodox Church (served by our other sometimes priest) in Peoria. There are probably others I don’t know, though. I’ve only been to Arizona a few times.
 
Arizona has basically every kind of Church you can think of. I lived in the East Valley for years.
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
I trust the official documents of our Church written by the Magesterium of the Church.

For me to have to determine & judge the "orthodox"ness of a priest to decide if I can trust him to give me right direction in a matter he may know nothing about, just doesn’t sit right. :confused:

If I can’t trust our official Church documents to guide us correctly, then what can I trust? And what would the point of the Magesterium be if it could not provide trust worthy documents?

I’ve misspelled magesterium, but am too lazy to spell check it. 😛
TrueLight;9560229:
The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the document says. These documents are not always clear.
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As TrueLight and Trebor135 have said and others have indicted, “These documents are not always clear”, “aren’t always easy to understand on one’s own”. 🙂

The question of whether a Catholic can fulfill his/her “Sunday obligation” in an Orthodox Church has been covered in a number of threads here on CAF. I think this piece by Catholic apologist Jimmy Akin covers the basic points. He includes the relevant CIC Can. 1248 §1 and §2 , and Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism paragraph 115

(You may already know, when this Directory, the CIC and other Catholic Church documents say “other Churches and ecclesial Communities” the term “other Churches” means those Orthodox Churches who have valid sacraments, and “ecclesial Communities” means other Christian groups which are not recognized to have valid sacraments.)
 
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