When a Catholic accepts communion at a Protestant Church

[teadough]

If one Is God and the other Symbolizes God - it is a clear mockery ( not a making fun of, but mockery as in pretend)…Protestant Communion is going through the motions while Catholic Eucharist is participating in the sacrifice, the one time, all time sacrifice of Jesus. On paper I can see being flippant, but if one truly believe God is present in the Eucharist, eating bread is pretending (mocking) this.

I am not trying to defend Protestant churches. But what you are saying may be true in regards to Episcopalians or other Anglican sects. but when you are talking about denominations like Baptist and Methodist and many others,then this is not so.I don’t understand what is so hard about Catholics trying to understand that Protestant aren’t trying to “pretend” anything. There is no “going through the motions” with the majority of Protestant churches. I don’t mean to sound…well,you know…but I just think it is important you have an understanding that the majority of Protestants are just eating some bread and drinking grape juice in remembrence of Jesus. It would be like you sitting in your kitchen one morning having a piece of toast and a cup of grape juice while you read your daily devotions and meditated on Jesus. that sounds silly,but it is true.

does that make any sense or did i just really make a fool of myself?

I will tell you something else that goes on within Baptist and Methodist churches. Keep in mind that each church is autonomous no matter what name they go by. After a communion service they take the leftover bread and throw it on the ground for the birds?

Now, do you really think they see what Catholics see? Can you get an idea now that most of them are not trying to play pretend communion service?They are doing this because this is what they have been taught. just like you were taught about the Church and now you are learning for yourself through the power of Christ the reality of what you are doing. I can’t put into words the anticipation,and thirst that my soul has for the real Body and Blood of Christ. Who knows what type of attitude I will have after Easter Vigil. I don’t think that the Eucharist is just a small possibility. I am without a doubt that it is 100% the real deal!!! I have dreams about the Eucharist. My mouth waters at Mass. Since last June I have been to every Sunday Mass but one and at least 100 during the other days of the week. Do you know why I go? I go for many reasons but mainly I go to watch you guys go up for Communion. I watch you and Pray for you and long to be in that line heading to the Alter.

 

[palmas85]

I suppose one of the differences between you and me is that you have blind faith. I on the other hand, question. I find it very hard to accept that one Christian has a “leg up” on another just because their methods of worship may differ. If each sincerely believes they are following the teachings of Christ and lives a good life, how can God hold that against them? I don’t think he does, not the God I believe in.

Then what you are saying is that you do not accept the teachings of the Catholic Church. Would that be a fair statement?

The problem with your viewpoint is that it totally misses out on something important. All of the protestant sects began through separation from the Catholic Church in one fashion or another. Each of them kept what they wanted to keep from Catholicism and dumped what they didn’t like. In other words they laid Catholicism on the procrustian bed and sliced it up it suit their needs.

Those who adhere to these erroneous beliefs may have indeed been taught wrong. But in these days of instant communication and access to information they have every opportunity to see the truth and learn from their mistakes. If they choose not to, when the truth is right in front of them, whose fault is it if not their own?

As far as God holding things against man, I would think that there are things that we do through the free exercise of will that can damage us in the eyes of God, God has always had some pretty strict requirements for how man is supposed to act. The fact that we have not has led directly to where we are now and the condition the human race finds itself in.

You make it sound as if there is something wrong with having as you say it, blind faith in the Church and that somehow you as a questioner is superior.

I would have to disagree with that assesment…

 

[TimothyPaul]

Peace…
I understand everyone is sincere.
It seems a matter of “the whole truth”.
…in following Jesus,
Protestations ocurred in John 6…the second half to John 7.
They found what he was clearly saying hard. Many left him.
(protesting)
Martin Luther later affirmed that leaving of Jesus. Not following.
His content in John 6 was so important, he repeated himself several times. We believe in the resurection, then why is it so difficult to believe in what Jesus said and later showed us in the last supper. “this is my body”, “this is my blood”. It seems no less mysterious this far in time after his resurection.
Our brethren “Protestants” have at least the partial truth.

 

[teadough]

Those who adhere to these erroneous beliefs may have indeed been taught wrong. But in these days of instant communication and access to information they have every opportunity to see the truth and learn from their mistakes. If they choose not to, when the truth is right in front of them, whose fault is it if not their own?

I hate to come off wrong here but you sound as though you actually think your above statement should make sense and hold ground against the Protestant movement. Do you really believe that?

You said you are an RCIA teacher? Do you often belittle the new Candidates by making them feel as though they were stupid or something? And please spare me with the “hey,I’m just stating what the Church says” or “I guess you don’t really believe in the Catholic Faith”. Those are blanket statements geared towards a last means of rebuttal and aimed at causing guilt to the person on the receiving end.

God draws us into the Church and after the fact we draw near to God.

John6 “44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Hebrews 10
22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

May the Peace of God fill your heart today

 

[mikew262]

Mike, what you are missing is that Catholic believe that Christ is PRESENT in the Eucharist…perhaps you know that on an intellectual level, but on a faith level…do you understand those repercussions? If one Is God and the other Symbolizes God - it is a clear mockery ( not a making fun of, but mockery as in pretend)…Protestant Communion is going through the motions while Catholic Eucharist is participating in the sacrifice, the one time, all time sacrifice of Jesus. On paper I can see being flippant, but if one truly believe God is present in the Eucharist, eating bread is pretending (mocking) this.

I disagree. It’s not a mockery at all, just a different belief. Many think Catholics are nuts, us actually believing the bread and wine turn into the actual body and blood of Christ. I would give them the same answer. Just a different belief.

 

[snhs]

God draws us into the Church and after the fact we draw near to God.

John6 “44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Hebrews 10
22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

May the Peace of God fill your heart today

We are told, however, that God calls everyone to him. The point palmas85 was making, I think, was that people who do not choose to become Catholics, in the West/developed world, can no longer claim ignorance of the facts/never having had the opportunity to learn them. The vast majority of people are literate and most of them have access to the web or books/people and other resources where they can find out about Catholicism. That being the case if they choose not to seek out the truth then it is their own fault and no one else’s.

 

[Christine_Blake]

I am not trying to defend Protestant churches. But what you are saying may be true in regards to Episcopalians or other Anglican sects. but when you are talking about denominations like Baptist and Methodist and many others,then this is not so.I don’t understand what is so hard about Catholics trying to understand that Protestant aren’t trying to “pretend” anything. There is no “going through the motions” with the majority of Protestant churches. I don’t mean to sound…well,you know…but I just think it is important you have an understanding that the majority of Protestants are just eating some bread and drinking grape juice in remembrence of Jesus. It would be like you sitting in your kitchen one morning having a piece of toast and a cup of grape juice while you read your daily devotions and meditated on Jesus. that sounds silly,but it is true.

does that make any sense or did i just really make a fool of myself?

I will tell you something else that goes on within Baptist and Methodist churches. Keep in mind that each church is autonomous no matter what name they go by. After a communion service they take the leftover bread and throw it on the ground for the birds?

Now, do you really think they see what Catholics see? Can you get an idea now that most of them are not trying to play pretend communion service?They are doing this because this is what they have been taught. just like you were taught about the Church and now you are learning for yourself through the power of Christ the reality of what you are doing. I can’t put into words the anticipation,and thirst that my soul has for the real Body and Blood of Christ. Who knows what type of attitude I will have after Easter Vigil. I don’t think that the Eucharist is just a small possibility. I am without a doubt that it is 100% the real deal!!! I have dreams about the Eucharist. My mouth waters at Mass. Since last June I have been to every Sunday Mass but one and at least 100 during the other days of the week. Do you know why I go? I go for many reasons but mainly I go to watch you guys go up for Communion. I watch you and Pray for you and long to be in that line heading to the Alter.

You make some good points, I am just so passionate about the Eucharist, as you seem to be that it pains me to know my protestant brothers and sisters miss out on “the real deal”…I will pray for you and celebrate with you in spirit on Easter Vigil! Thank you for softening my view

 

[Christine_Blake]

Peace…
I understand everyone is sincere.
It seems a matter of “the whole truth”.
…in following Jesus,
Protestations ocurred in John 6…the second half to John 7.
They found what he was clearly saying hard. Many left him.
(protesting)
Martin Luther later affirmed that leaving of Jesus. Not following.
His content in John 6 was so important, he repeated himself several times. We believe in the resurection, then why is it so difficult to believe in what Jesus said and later showed us in the last supper. “this is my body”, “this is my blood”. It seems no less mysterious this far in time after his resurection.
Our brethren “Protestants” have at least the partial truth.

Good Points!

 

[mikew262]

It has nothing to do with “methods of worship.” The Catholic Church is Christ’s Church because Christ founded the Catholic Church in 33 AD, in the same way that Martin Luther founded Lutheranism in 1517 AD, and in the same way that John Knox founded Presbyterianism in 1560 AD.

These are three entirely different churches, established by three entirely different men - Jesus Christ, Martin Luther, and John Knox - in three different countries and in three different periods of history.

How does us following our own traditions in the belief that they come to us directly from Christ negate God’s love for others?

You are speaking from a “Catholic” point of view. All Christian Churches have their roots with Christ and Scripture. They all feel the Holy Spirit guides them. Who is right and who is wrong? Does it really matter as long as they are sincerely following Christ’ teachings? The Reformation happened because many thought the Church had become corrupt, and had lost it’s way. Those folks did not abandon Christ, they abandoned the Church who they feel was starting to fail them.

 

[Christine_Blake]

I disagree. It’s not a mockery at all, just a different belief. Many think Catholics are nuts, us actually believing the bread and wine turn into the actual body and blood of Christ. I would give them the same answer. Just a different belief.

Ok, but it is such an important belief of ours and I wonder why we’re nuts to believe this when His raising from the dead is accepted…I know what you are saying and I think I came across too judgemental, but I just love that Jesus gave us the Eucharist and when I read John 6 I can’t help but compare Protestants to those who walked away from this belief the first time…

 

[teadough]

West/developed world, can no longer claim ignorance of the facts/never having had the opportunity to learn them. The vast majority of people are literate and most of them have access to the web or books/people and other resources where they can find out about Catholicism. That being the case if they choose not to seek out the truth then it is their own fault and no one else’s.

I promise I am not meaning to sound mean but you have got to be kidding me if you think that is how most people are to find out about the Catholic Faith. I am sure some people do but it’s not like one day I woke up and did a little research on the Internet and then went “Hmmm,what do you know…I have been wrong all this time”. I know you don’t mean harm by what you are saying but I can’ help but think you were raised in the Catholic Faith.Maybe not. Maybe you were a lifelong Protestant and you got bored one day and decided to read the history of the Catholic Church.

Like I said I am not trying to sound mean. Trust me on that. I just can’t think of bettere words to use

 

[palmas85]

I hate to come off wrong here but you sound as though you actually think your above statement should make sense and hold ground against the Protestant movement. Do you really believe that?

You said you are an RCIA teacher? Do you often belittle the new Candidates by making them feel as though they were stupid or something? And please spare me with the “hey,I’m just stating what the Church says” or “I guess you don’t really believe in the Catholic Faith”. Those are blanket statements geared towards a last means of rebuttal and aimed at causing guilt to the person on the receiving end.

God draws us into the Church and after the fact we draw near to God.

John6 “44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Hebrews 10
22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

May the Peace of God fill your heart today

Actually what I tell them is welcome home.

What I was saying is that in todays world, I doubt that many protestants are ignorant of the differences between Catholicism and Protestants. In fact many protestant preachers base their entire careers on degrading Catholicism by pointing out the differences and holding the faith up to ridicule.

As such, most protestants today make a conscious choice to turn their backs on the true Church. I feel sorry for them, I pray for them but thats about it. They choose to believe what they believe.

And what I was trying to says that if you do not accept what the Catholic Church teaches, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate what you truly believe.

The hallmark of protestant sects is basically that they all believe in exactly what they want to. You know, if you don’t agree with the pastor, start a new community. Way to many Catholics today are starting to believe the same way. Pick choose and refuse. Don’t like a doctrine, forget it. Don’t like a belief, change it. It’s all good. As long as you profess to believe to God its OK.

And I really don’t think thats true,

.

 

[mikew262]

Then what you are saying is that you do not accept the teachings of the Catholic Church. Would that be a fair statement?

The problem with your viewpoint is that it totally misses out on something important. All of the protestant sects began through separation from the Catholic Church in one fashion or another. Each of them kept what they wanted to keep from Catholicism and dumped what they didn’t like. In other words they laid Catholicism on the procrustian bed and sliced it up it suit their needs.

Those who adhere to these erroneous beliefs may have indeed been taught wrong. But in these days of instant communication and access to information they have every opportunity to see the truth and learn from their mistakes. If they choose not to, when the truth is right in front of them, whose fault is it if not their own?

As far as God holding things against man, I would think that there are things that we do through the free exercise of will that can damage us in the eyes of God, God has always had some pretty strict requirements for how man is supposed to act. The fact that we have not has led directly to where we are now and the condition the human race finds itself in.

You make it sound as if there is something wrong with having as you say it, blind faith in the Church and that somehow you as a questioner is superior.

I would have to disagree with that assessment…

There is nothing wrong with blind faith and never questioning if that makes you happy. I’m envious of that at times. I’m not superior to you at all, nor am I inferior because I tend to question.

It’s just the “I’m right and you are wrong” attitude, that prevails among the various Christian denominations, including Catholics, is both frustrating and sad. Anybody who feels that way, I feel the need to question. Nobody is willing to accept that just because they may worship God different than me doesn’t necessarily make them wrong.

 

[teadough]

Christine Blake,

I went to your link you have posted for your book. I really like how you described you and Mary Magdalene in the “about me section”. I think you did a wonderful job at describing real people.

God Bless

 

[teadough]

I can some up where I am with my conversion process. HAve you ever read GK Chesterton view of the Catholic convert? He ralates it to 3 stages.His words spring so true to where I was,am,and going. I am in Stage 3 now. Trust me. i am going through this. I have no reservations in me. It may appear that I am on the fence. To sum up where I am with the Church: I will die a Catholic.

"The convert commonly passes through three stages or states of mind. The first is when he imagines himself to be entirely detached . . . that of the young philosopher who feels that he ought to be fair to the Church of Rome. He wishes to do it justice; but chiefly because he sees that it suffers injustice . . . I had no more idea of becoming a Catholic than of becoming a cannibal. I imagined that I was merely pointing out that justice should be done even to cannibals . . .

The second stage is that in which the convert begins to be conscious not only of the falsehood but the truth . . . It consists in discovering what a very large number of lively and interesting ideas there are in the Catholic philosophy . . . This process, which may be called discovering the Catholic Church, is perhaps the most pleasant and straightforward part of the business . . . It is like discovering a new continent full of strange flowers and fantastic animals, which is at once wild and hospitable . . . It is these numberless glimpses of great ideas, that have been hidden from the convert by the prejudices of his provincial culture, that constitute the adventurous and varied second stage of the conversion. It is, broadly speaking, the stage in which the man is unconsciously trying to be converted . . .

The third stage is perhaps . . . the most terrible. It is that in which the man is trying not to be converted . . . He is filled with a sort of fear . . . He discovers a strange and alarming fact . . . a truth that Newman and every other convert has probably found in one form or another. It is impossible to be just to the Catholic Church. The moment men cease to pull against it they feel a tug towards it. The moment they cease to shout it down they begin to listen to it with pleasure. The moment they try to be fair to it they begin to be fond of it . . .

All steps except the last step he has taken eagerly on his own account, out of interest in the truth . . . I for one was never less troubled by doubts than in the last phase, when I was troubled by fears. Before that final delay I had been detached and ready to regard all sorts of doctrines with an open mind . . . I had no doubts or difficulties just before. I had only fears; fears of something that had the finality and simplicity of suicide . . . It may be that I shall never again have such absolute assurance that the thing is true as I had when I made my last effort to deny it . . .

At the last moment of all, the convert often feels as if . . . he is look through a little crack or crooked hole that seems to grow smaller as he stares at it; but it is an opening that looks towards the Altar. Only, when he has entered the Church, he finds that the Church is much larger inside than it is outside . . .

There is generally an interval of intense nervousness . . . To a certain extent it is a fear which attaches to all sharp and irrevocable decisions; it is suggested in all the old jokes about the shakiness of the bridegroom at the wedding . . . He wonders whether the whole business is an extraordinarily intelligent and ingenious confidence trick . . . There is in the last second of time or hair’s breadth of space, before the iron leaps to the magnet, an abyss full of all the unfathomable forces of the universe . . . That anything described as so bad should turn out to be so good is itself a rather arresting process having a savour of something sensational and strange . . .

 

[snhs]

I promise I am not meaning to sound mean but you have got to be kidding me if you think that is how most people are to find out about the Catholic Faith. I am sure some people do but it’s not like one day I woke up and did a little research on the Internet and then went “Hmmm,what do you know…I have been wrong all this time”. I know you don’t mean harm by what you are saying but I can’ help but think you were raised in the Catholic Faith.Maybe not. Maybe you were a lifelong Protestant and you got bored one day and decided to read the history of the Catholic Church.

Like I said I am not trying to sound mean. Trust me on that. I just can’t think of bettere words to use

At what point did I say anything on duration? The facts are there if people do not choose to look at them then how can you deny it is their responsibility?

You may not be being mean but you are certainly misreading what I wrote. I specifically highlighted the web, books and other people and at no point did I imply they would read any single book/website of a morning and suddenly realise they had been wrong all along. You do your argument no favours by blatantly misconstruing other’s views in such a manner.

There can obviously be purely faith based conversions where someone just realises the errors in their faith, just as St. Peter was blessed with the revelation that Jesus was the Son of God. Equally there are many more conversions based on intellectual exploration, in which faith can and does play a part such as the Venerable John Henry Cardinal Newman. It may not have been how you were drawn to it but the fact remains the resources were available for you to explore the faith just as they are to the vast majority of people in the West. In short those of other faiths do not have the excuse that they never had a chance to learn about it because of lack of access. They know of the differences and choose to retain the status quo.

 

[teadough]

You do your argument no favours by blatantly misconstruing other’s views in such a manner.

Ahhh, the classic “bait and switch/turn the tables” card.

 

[blossom02]

Teadough I will pray for you as you go through this trying time. I can understand how hard this will be. Jesus told us it would be this way but remember He is with us.

 

[Aquinas74]

Ahhh, the classic “bait and switch/turn the tables” card.

Be strong my friend, I will offer my Holy Mass intenntion for you. Be at Peace.

 

[snhs]

Ahhh, the classic “bait and switch/turn the tables” card.

So you are denying that by adding an impractical time frame and implying my initial statement said it was only dependant on the web that you were deliberately misconstruing my argument? I also note that you didn’t address the substance of my previous post.

If you are unable to engage in civilised debate then don’t try to.