When a pope makes mistakes ...

[catharina]

What would make YOU obliged to disclose a sin of the Holy Father? Do you think that if someone sins you are automatically obligated to make this public? I’m guessing no but I’m not really sure how your line of argument here pertains to the topic of the thread.

Yes, it cvncerns the Holy Father. In his usual WH way, he took my exchange with joanofarc out of context: his point being we are to judge and declare the sins of others (my point having been we are never to do so). His obstinacy, my dealing with it has exhausted me so that I’ve prayed for death - mine not his. Among other things I have rheumatoid arthirtis. Plus I work FT with critically ill children. Are these circular arguments the way he amuses himself? Thanks for your klind words, bear06.

 

[Walking_Home]

The problem is that her comments were based on comments made against the Holy Father which she quoted and I gave the link for. We can go off on tangents 'til the cows come home but if we’re all debating different things, there really is no point. She was quite clear in that she was talking about the charge that the Pope publicly sinned. Can you agree that this would be wrong?

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In this instance —catharina made a statement which is applicable to all. By what she says–if you found out your neighbor was abusing his/her child—you would not be able to turn him/her in and the abuse would continue.

Originally Posted by catharina;2940415e
As Roman Catholics, we are NOT ALLOWED to accuse anyone of being guilty of any specific sin at any given time. Most other Christians are taught the very same thing. It has ALWAYS been that way. Quite likely, it will always be that way. It has ALWAYS been that way. We are the laity. ALWAYS. ! ]

 

[bear06]

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catharina—you may not understand how the CCC works. One section of the CCC does not over-ride another section of the CCC. Otherwise—the Church would not know what she was teaching. So sections 1868 and 1869 still stand.

Read the quote you gave. Where exactly is she wrong?

Again, she was quite clear in saying that she was dealing with the comment regarding the Pope’s unrepented public sin. WH, I’m sure that you would even think it wrong to say that the Koran incident was a public sin. I’m pretty sure this is why you haven’t actually said it. The part she quoted had to do with rash judgment. I can’t figure out why you’re even quoting 1868/69 unless you are going to make the charge that the Holy Father was publicly sinning with the Koran incident.

 

[bear06]

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In this instance —catharina made a statement which is applicable to all. By what she says–if you found out your neighbor was abusing his/her child—you would not be able to turn him/her in and the abuse would continue.

Originally Posted by catharina;2940415e
As Roman Catholics, we are NOT ALLOWED to accuse anyone of being guilty of any specific sin at any given time. Most other Christians are taught the very same thing. It has ALWAYS been that way. Quite likely, it will always be that way. It has ALWAYS been that way. We are the laity. ALWAYS. ! ]

One last time. She wasn’t concerning herself with a person who is abusing a child. She was concerning herself with the charge that the Holy Father was publicly sinning in the Koran incident. This is why I’m can’t figure why you’d bring 1868/69 into it. You’re picking hyperboles that don’t have anything to do. I’m sure if you just said that you couldn’t say that the Holy Father was publicly sinning in the Koran incident, the whole line of argument would stop.

 

[Walking_Home]

Yes, it cvncerns the Holy Father. In his usual WH way, he took my exchange with joanofarc out of context: his point being we are to judge and declare the sins of others (my point having been we are never to do so). His obstinacy, my dealing with it has exhausted me so that I’ve prayed for death - mine not his. Among other things I have rheumatoid arthirtis. Plus I work FT with critically ill children. Are these circular arguments the way he amuses himself? Thanks for your klind words, bear06.

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catharina —your accusations are getting outlandish. You tried to bring the Holy Father into what we were discussing. I pointed that out to you.

 

[Walking_Home]

One last time. She wasn’t concerning herself with a person who is abusing a child. She was concerning herself with the charge that the Holy Father was publicly sinning in the Koran incident. This is why I’m can’t figure why you’d bring 1868/69 into it. You’re picking hyperboles that don’t have anything to do. I’m sure if you just said that you couldn’t say that the Holy Father was publicly sinning in the Koran incident, the whole line of argument would stop.

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bear06—in a prior post to catharina–I pointed it out that my discussion did not include the Holy Father. So what I brought in from the CCC did not have anything to do with him.

As I mention before—her statement was general—she said accuse anyone. This goes beyond the Holy Father.

 

[bear06]

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catharina —your accusations are getting outlandish. You tried to bring the Holy Father into what we were discussing. I pointed that out to you.

Did you by any chance notice that the who thread is about the Holy Father?! Zoinks, WH. You just can’t seem to call a spade a spade. This is twice in as many days. First you can’t bring yourself to say that it’s slanderous to call Sure a popolators and now you can’t say it’s wrong to say that the Holy Father was publicly sinning in the Koran incident. So, at this time I’d like to draw your attention to 1868 and 1869 in the CCC. Does this make you a joanofarc3olator?

 

[catharina]

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In this instance —catharina made a statement which is applicable to all. By what she says–if you found out your neighbor was abusing his/her child—you would not be able to turn him/her in and the abuse would continue.

Originally Posted by catharina;2940415e
As Roman Catholics, we are NOT ALLOWED to accuse anyone of being guilty of any specific sin at any given time. Most other Christians are taught the very same thing. It has ALWAYS been that way. Quite likely, it will always be that way. It has ALWAYS been that way. We are the laity. ALWAYS. ! ]

You are SO barking up the wrong tree. I’ve just come off of 30+ yrs working to protect abused children. You sound ridiculous and profoundly disrespectful.

Notice I said you “sound that way” not that you are that way.

If I call the police and turn in my neighbor for “sin” you think they’ll scoot right over? NO. I accuse my neighbor of a CRIME. Who knows about the man’s sin beyond God and that man himself? (Maybe his guardian angel - but I don’t know about his sin and neither do you.) Have you never heard of culpability in regard to sin?

 

[bear06]

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bear06—in a prior post to catharina–I pointed it out that my discussion did not include the Holy Father. So what I brought in from the CCC did not have anything to do with him.

As I mention before—her statement was general—she said accuse anyone. This goes beyond the Holy Father.

Oh my goodness! You can state and talk about whatever you want. That said, her comments were applied to the charge of the Pope publicly sinning in the Koran incident.

 

[Walking_Home]

Read the quote you gave. Where exactly is she wrong?

Again, she was quite clear in saying that she was dealing with the comment regarding the Pope’s unrepented public sin. WH, I’m sure that you would even think it wrong to say that the Koran incident was a public sin. I’m pretty sure this is why you haven’t actually said it. The part she quoted had to do with rash judgment. I can’t figure out why you’re even quoting 1868/69 unless you are going to make the charge that the Holy Father was publicly sinning with the Koran incident.

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As I said bear06—catharina made a statement which is applicable to all—not limited to the Holy Father. That is what I was clarifying.

 

[catharina]

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As I said bear06—catharina made a statement which is applicable to all—not limited to the Holy Father. That is what I was clarifying.

You made no clarification, you seek no clarification.

When do you plan to call the police about your neighbors’ sins?
Clarify that.

 

[catharina]

Did you by any chance notice that the who thread is about the Holy Father?! Zoinks, WH. You just can’t seem to call a spade a spade. This is twice in as many days. First you can’t bring yourself to say that it’s slanderous to call Sure a popolators and now you can’t say it’s wrong to say that the Holy Father was publicly sinning in the Koran incident. So, at this time I’d like to draw your attention to 1868 and 1869 in the CCC. Does this make you a joanofarc3olator?

Check out any of the following threads if you’re feeling really bored and see what he accused me of there. I’ve been on this sight less than two months. Is this how radtrads welcome strangers?

(I keep thinking “who is this WH?” Why the problems with him?)

sspx new alternatives in communion with rome

Pope JP2 a Liberal?

If you were Pope…

 

[bear06]

I believe that she clarified what she meant in her last post and she is mostly right.

That said, she is discounting the public, obstinate sinner. This would be someone the Church has counseled to the sin they are cooperting or participating in and has rejected such counsel and continued with their public sin and thus has become obstinate in it. We certainly can say that they are committing a sin.

This cannot be applied to the Holy Father in the case of the Koran incident and, last time I checked, the thread was about the Pope making mistakes (and I guess that would be perceived or real).

 

[Walking_Home]

You made no clarification, you seek no clarification.

When do you plan to call the police about your neighbors’ sins?
Clarify that.

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Your statement was general applicable to all.

If I found out one of them murdered or abuses his/her child --I would call the police.

 

[bear06]

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Your statement was general applicable to all.

If I found out one of them murdered or abuses his/her child --I would call the police.

And I’m sure you’re the only person here who would do that?

Can we get back to the topic now or could the moderator mercifully shut this one down?

 

[catharina]

I believe that she clarified what she meant in her last post and she is mostly right.

That said, she is discounting the public, obstinate sinner. This would be someone the Church has counseled to the sin they are cooperting or participating in and has rejected such counsel and continued with their public sin and thus has become obstinate in it. We certainly can say that they are committing a sin.

This cannot be applied to the Holy Father in the case of the Koran incident and, last time I checked, the thread was about the Pope making mistakes (and I guess that would be perceived or real).

Different situation and yes, I agree. When the Church has declared one to be a “public sinner” then that IS Church Teaching.

 

[catharina]

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Your statement was general applicable to all.

If I found out one of them murdered or abuses his/her child --I would call the police.

You would call to report a CRIME. You have no knowledge in and of yourself that your neighbor is guilty of sin! Don’t you get that? His behavior might seem sinful - or even BE sinful - but you don’t KNOW that about his soul. You CAN’T know that so you CAN’T say that.

 

[Walking_Home]

And I’m sure you’re the only person here who would do that?

Can we get back to the topic now or could the moderator mercifully shut this one down?

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bear06–I honestly hope — that I would not be the only person here to do that.

 

[Walking_Home]

You would call to report a CRIME. You have no knowledge in and of yourself that your neighbor is guilty of sin! Don’t you get that? His behavior might seem sinful - or even BE sinful - but you don’t KNOW that about his soul. You CAN’T know that so you CAN’T say that.

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Yes that type of sin is also a crime.

 

[catharina]

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Yes that type of sin is also a crime.

As a citizen you are expected to report crimes, not sins.

I wish you the best with your struggles with simple logic.