When a priest isn't really a priest at all

[DL82]

On my application to the seminary, there were two questions that stood out for their serious tone. One of them was had I ever impersonated a priest. I was shocked as the implications of this one question were explained to me. Not long after that a high school buddy of mine asked if he could start calling me Father. My quick and rather loud response to the negative surprised us both.

I trust this doesn’t exclude children ‘playing mass’, or people at fancy dress parties! You’d be surprised how many priests used to play at being priests when they were kids.

 

[LilyM]

I’ve had a couple “off” experiences in confession at Catholic conferences over the years and now I’m starting to question were those guys priests? Did anyone check? Could anyone in priestly attire walk into a confessional at a busy conference and no one notice?

And what if this guy was a pervert and I had sent my daughter into the confessional with a pathological liar, a mentally disturbed person?

You just take things for granted that someone wouldn’t do this, and certainly couldn’t pull it off without raising suspicion. And why would you go through so much trouble? This had to have taken a lot of planning, study, even money. The guy had his own vestiments. His homilies were about the love of Jesus, being Christians -all while he standing there knowing he’s lying, knowing he’s fooling us all. Knowing were kneeling for what we think is communion and he’s handing us wafers of bread. Letting people pour out their hearts in confession, giving them direction all while he’s lying and pretending to absolve people.

And the worst of all anointing those dying when he knew he had no ability to actually do so. His pretense was of warmth and caring. Our pastor said he prayed beautifully. He prayed for people all the while he knowing he was lying. He was a Catholic, he knew what the sacraments were, he knew nothing he did was valid. He pretended to care while betraying everyone.

Honestly it feels very evil to me.

For all you know the man has a mental illness of some kind and was genuinely deluded and thus innocent of all guilty knowledge. Don’t be so quick to judge.

In any case it would be a definite evil if you let it shake your trust in Christ’s Church, and the promises He made to keep her safe against the gates of Hell until the last day.

 

[lizaanne]

For all you know the man has a mental illness of some kind and was genuinely deluded and thus innocent of all guilty knowledge. Don’t be so quick to judge.

I SERIOUSLY doubt this is the case. I’ve met the man. He is completely in control of his faculties, and has done this before in other situations and has studied a great deal to be able to pull this off. This is a very calculated activity. Think about it - learning Latin, the Mass, Sacraments and Rites (he presented himself also as a Melkite Rite “priest” as well I believe), purchasing vestments, creating elaborate documents, on and on and on. This man may be ill, but not in the way you suggest. He was trying to make a buck and be important. If anything I would believe that he has some sort of issue with being accepted/loved - but I’m no doctor.

Sorry - I’m a bit bitter about this betrayal, I received “holy communion” from this man’s hand, and I nearly wanted to throw up when I heard about this.

~Liza

 

[Leonius]

It does not matter how convincing he was, someone should have actually checked! Are souls worth nothing, you have to go through stricter checks to get a job at the grocery store then they seem to have made in this diocese.

 

[LilyM]

I SERIOUSLY doubt this is the case. I’ve met the man. He is completely in control of his faculties, and has done this before in other situations and has studied a great deal to be able to pull this off. This is a very calculated activity. Think about it - learning Latin, the Mass, Sacraments and Rites (he presented himself also as a Melkite Rite “priest” as well I believe), purchasing vestments, creating elaborate documents, on and on and on. This man may be ill, but not in the way you suggest. He was trying to make a buck and be important. If anything I would believe that he has some sort of issue with being accepted/loved - but I’m no doctor.

Sorry - I’m a bit bitter about this betrayal, I received “holy communion” from this man’s hand, and I nearly wanted to throw up when I heard about this.

~Liza

Charles Manson and David Koresh were both lucid and calculating enough to manipulate their followers totally for years. Doubtless plenty of folk who met both didn’t think they were mad at first either - they followed them, right?

Both were nonetheless indisputably nuts, Koresh had God delusions and Manson carved a swastika into his forehead. Of course Charlie was not found legally insane, but legal insanity requires a pretty high threshold.

 

[ChristinaM]

It does not matter how convincing he was, someone should have actually checked! Are souls worth nothing, you have to go through stricter checks to get a job at the grocery store then they seem to have made in this diocese.

Well, according to the pastor he had all the appropriate paperwork. What reason would there have been to doubt him? In hindsight it’s always easy to say “oh, he should’ve been checked out more carefully”…but obviously this guy was a very convincing con man.

This is one of the most chilling stories I have read on CAF. Especially the part about him hearing confessions and giving Last Rites.

 

[kevinsgirl]

Seriously?

This is so disturbing…

 

[Miserissima]

It seems that this latest incident isn’t all that new.

It happened in 2007 in Portugal and

in 1995 in New York.

Oy. I hope this isn’t a world-wide trend.

 

[Leonius]

Well, according to the pastor he had all the appropriate paperwork. What reason would there have been to doubt him? In hindsight it’s always easy to say “oh, he should’ve been checked out more carefully”…but obviously this guy was a very convincing con man.

This is one of the most chilling stories I have read on CAF. Especially the part about him hearing confessions and giving Last Rites.

The reason to doubt him is because he is a complete stranger who nobody knows!

Anyone can make themselves a copy of paperwork, the paperwork is merely like a reference, the employer checks the reference because the world is full of people who LIE.

He clearly was not checked out at all, because any check would have come up as there been no such priest, they simply took his word for it that he was a priest based on some pieces of paper which are easily forged. And all for the sake of a two minute phone call to wherever he was claiming to have come from.

There was a utter lack of prudence in the decision making of whoever allowed him to practice as a priest which placed all of the Catholics in that parish in great danger, thank God he was not a rapist or a child molester. This must serve as a warning to all to not be so trusting, we are not in heaven yet and this could have been far, far worse. Thank God that it wasn’t.

 

[rayne89]

For all you know the man has a mental illness of some kind and was genuinely deluded and thus innocent of all guilty knowledge. Don’t be so quick to judge.

In any case it would be a definite evil if you let it shake your trust in Christ’s Church, and the promises He made to keep her safe against the gates of Hell until the last day.

Of course my faith is not shaken in Christ’s Church, whatever gave you that idea?

Honestly I was a bit irritated by your “don’t be so quick to judge” comment. We have been praying every night for this man since it happened.

Since you have not experienced this maybe its easier for you to say this man may be innocent. My husband went to confession to this man, he was giving “last rites” to dying individuals, the Masses we were attending weren’t Masses at all. It feels like you are judging me, making this out like it’s some small matter “well you know maybe he’s was mentally ill, its not his fault, forgive and forget” -because it is not a small matter -not to me, not to the people at my parish, not to those families of individuals whose loved ones died without real sacraments with this judas in their midst at there most difficult time.

And for what? For money, to feel self important - it is evil. It was all a lie and we know who the father of lies is.

 

[rayne89]

The reason to doubt him is because he is a complete stranger who nobody knows!

Anyone can make themselves a copy of paperwork, the paperwork is merely like a reference, the employer checks the reference because the world is full of people who LIE.

He clearly was not checked out at all, because any check would have come up as there been no such priest, they simply took his word for it that he was a priest based on some pieces of paper which are easily forged. And all for the sake of a two minute phone call to wherever he was claiming to have come from.

There was a utter lack of prudence in the decision making of whoever allowed him to practice as a priest which placed all of the Catholics in that parish in great danger, thank God he was not a rapist or a child molester. This must serve as a warning to all to not be so trusting, we are not in heaven yet and this could have been far, far worse. Thank God that it wasn’t.

It’s not like they let him say Mass the first time they met him. Our assisting elderly resident priest was in and out of the hospital. A friendship developed over time. Our pastor of our parish is a very intelligent man, you’d have to know him to know this guy had to have his T’s crossed and his I’s dotted in order to have fooled him. His story must have had to have sound 100% legitimate in order for this guy to have done this. We have have a very traditional parish, there’s no innovation, no casual attitude when it comes to church matters. It’s easy to say on the internet the pastor was foolish, he was lax in his duties but you’d have to know our pastor to understand this guy’s act had to have been Oscar worthy to pull this off.

 

[Leonius]

It’s not like they let him say Mass the first time they met him. Our assisting elderly resident priest was in and out of the hospital. A friendship developed over time. Our pastor of our parish is a very intelligent man, you’d have to know him to know this guy had to have his T’s crossed and his I’s dotted in order to have fooled him. His story must have had to have sound 100% legitimate in order for this guy to have done this. We have have a very traditional parish, there’s no innovation, no casual attitude when it comes to church matters. It’s easy to say on the internet the pastor was foolish, he was lax in his duties but you’d have to know our pastor to understand this guy’s act had to have been Oscar worthy to pull this off.

But that’s the whole problem it took nothing other than a convincing act, which means it can happen again.

The priest should not just trust this stranger he should have checked the guy out it with whoever would have a record of who he was, it was the prudent thing to do and the Church keeps records for this very purpose. I understand your desire to defend your priest and its a refreshing change when priests seem to blamed for so many things, but the fact is he is responsible for this and he messed up.

 

[rayne89]

But that’s the whole problem it took nothing other than a convincing act, which means it can happen again.

The priest should not just trust this stranger he should have checked the guy out it with whoever would have a record of who he was, it was the prudent thing to do and the Church keeps records for this very purpose.

Obviously hind sight is 20/20. So this guy is completely convincing, presents documents signed by the archbishop of our diocese and our pastor still should have had reason to doubt him?

 

[jmcrae]

Obviously hind sight is 20/20. So this guy is completely convincing, presents documents signed by the archbishop of our diocese and our pastor still should have had reason to doubt him?

It makes you wonder how many imposters are getting away with it, because they play the part well, and have authentic-looking documents, and no one thought of checking their credentials.

 

[Leonius]

Obviously hind sight is 20/20. So this guy is completely convincing, presents documents signed by the archbishop of our diocese and our pastor still should have had reason to doubt him?

Yes of course he should have, the documents did not change the fact that this man was a stranger to him. He should have checked with the archbishops office, a 2 minute phone call could have prevented all this, likewise if the priest was legitimate someone should have informed your priest beforehand, that would have been done out of courtesy at one time, and some stranger turning up unannounced would have been treat appropriately, I guess it is no longer common practice.

Its got nothign to do with hindsight, checking of references is standard practice in every organisation I have worked with before employing someone, its called due diligence.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes of course he should have, the documents did not change the fact that this man was a stranger to him. He should have checked with the archbishops office, a 2 minute phone call could have prevented all this, likewise if the priest was legitimate someone should have informed your priest beforehand, that would have been done out of courtesy at one time, and some stranger turning up unannounced would have been treat appropriately, I guess it is no longer common practice.

Well - what he should have realized was that no credentials are required to be presented when you go to work as a hospital chaplain; just a police check to ensure that you have no criminal record. Hospitals don’t check to make sure that you are of the religion that you claim to be (there are far too many different religions for them to be able to keep track of every single accreditation process); the only thing they care about is that the patients are kept happy, and appear to be having their spiritual needs met.

PS: the guy must have been “working” for free, since the hospital doesn’t pay the chaplains; they are paid by the religious organization that provides them. Which means that the whole con was very, very well planned.

 

[ac_claire]

I guess what really matters here is what is the usual practice for verifying the bona fides of a visiting priest, and did they follow that protocol in this case?

Whatever the normal procedure is, all the attention on this case makes me thinks it’ll be tightened up in the future for many diocese.

 

[aicirt]

I was shocked as a young adult when I found out that the diocese doesn’t have Identification cards that identify priests as priests with faculties within the diocese.

You would think that the worlds largest organization would have a way to identify it’s ordained members.

I’m shocked too. First, what about a phone call to the last three parishes where the “priest” served?

Second, your suggestion of an ID card is excellent.

Third, because a priest goes into hospitals, schools, prisons, and our homes…on occassion…shouldn’t they be screened by the police or be bonded?

Fourth, this brings up why the pedophile priests were so easily transferred from one parish to another.

 

[ack]

The reason to doubt him is because he is a complete stranger who nobody knows!

Anyone can make themselves a copy of paperwork, the paperwork is merely like a reference, the employer checks the reference because the world is full of people who LIE.

He clearly was not checked out at all, because any check would have come up as there been no such priest, they simply took his word for it that he was a priest based on some pieces of paper which are easily forged. And all for the sake of a two minute phone call to wherever he was claiming to have come from.

There was a utter lack of prudence in the decision making of whoever allowed him to practice as a priest which placed all of the Catholics in that parish in great danger, thank God he was not a rapist or a child molester. This must serve as a warning to all to not be so trusting, we are not in heaven yet and this could have been far, far worse. Thank God that it wasn’t.

Its got nothign to do with hindsight, checking of references is standard practice in every organisation I have worked with before employing someone, its called due diligence.

Your criticism of the OP’s pastor is out of line – the Code of Canon Law gives the proper procedure to follow in this situation, and the pastor followed it to the letter. Canon 903 explicitly mentions the case where the priest is a “complete stranger”, and still stipulates that he should be allowed to celebrate Mass. Perhaps the bishop will now request that some kind of more stringent check be done upon visiting priests, but in the absence of this directive, the pastor’s actions were appropriate.

I guess what really matters here is what is the usual practice for verifying the bona fides of a visiting priest, and did they follow that protocol in this case?

Whatever the normal procedure is, all the attention on this case makes me thinks it’ll be tightened up in the future for many diocese.

The “usual protocol” is what the pastor did.

I’m shocked too. First, what about a phone call to the last three parishes where the “priest” served?

Second, your suggestion of an ID card is excellent.

Third, because a priest goes into hospitals, schools, prisons, and our homes…on occassion…shouldn’t they be screened by the police or be bonded?

Fourth, this brings up why the pedophile priests were so easily transferred from one parish to another.

A phone call or ID card would not work in all cases. What if the priest is a religious priest, or a priest from another country? Getting the right person on the phone could be difficult or impossible. Plus, the diocese in question has no authority to force every diocese, religious institute, and society of apostolic life to adopt a universal ID card, so impostors could simply claim to be ordained in a setting where the cards are not given. Finally, I have no idea what any of this has to do with pedophile priest scandal, but okay…

All of you should go back and read post #22, where GodFollower explained this very clearly. Canon 903 requires the pastor to allow the “visiting priest” to celebrate upon the presentation of a letter from the bishop. I see no complementary legislation from the USCCB regarding Canon 903, so (although I am not a Canon Lawyer) it seems that the pastor did not err.

From the John Beal commentary on the Code of Canon Law:

…A celebret is a letter of introduction from a priest’s ordinary or superior which attests to the priest’s ordination and good standing, and certifies that there is nothing to prevent him from celebrating Mass. Secular priests obtain the celebret from their local ordinary, and priests who are religious or members of clerical societies of apostolic life may obtain it form their local ordinary, major superior, or local superior. To be valid it must be dated wihtin a year of its presentation to the recor of the church where the priest wishes to celebrate. In this canon the term “rector” includes anyone who has the care of a church or an oratory, such as a pastor or religious superior, and not on ly the recto rmentioned in canon 556…

That celebret seems to be somewhat of a holdover from the days where electronic communication was impossible and it was more difficult to forge official documents. Alas, this is the law, and neither the OP’s pastor, the diocese, nor the USCCB can change this by fiat…

 

[lizaanne]

Thank you ack. The pastor of this parish did nothing wrong, the fault is not on him, it is on the one who defrauded. I feel so bad for Rayne having to defend her own pastor and parish against some of these comments, a pastor and parish I personally consider my second Church home after my own parish.

Honestly. As if this was the REAL priest’s fault and not the impostor’s!!!

~Liza