When a priest isn't really a priest at all

[aicirt]

Well, according to the pastor he had all the appropriate paperwork. What reason would there have been to doubt him? In hindsight it’s always easy to say “oh, he should’ve been checked out more carefully”…but obviously this guy was a very convincing con man.

This is one of the most chilling stories I have read on CAF. Especially the part about him hearing confessions and giving Last Rites.

Anyone can forge paperwork. It was up to the pastor to at least call and check his references. An ID with his picture issued by the Church would have also helped.

After the pedophile scandal, pastors cannot afford to be so accepting.

 

[rayne89]

Anyone can forge paperwork. It was up to the pastor to at least call and check his references. An ID with his picture issued by the Church would have also helped.

After the pedophile scandal, pastors cannot afford to be so accepting.

Were any of the abusers from the the pedophile scandal fake priests? To my knowledge they were all real priests, so checking their references wouldn’t have helped.

Our pastor followed the proper procedure. I’m sure things will be different now but there was no reason to suspect. So my pastor is guilty and the poor, mentally disturbed impostor is innocent. Great.

 

[LilyM]

I still don’t get it. This isn’t 1850. Nobody relies solely on letters of introduction anymore. I’m just a regular lay joe and when our pastor announces a new associate priest or even just a recurring guest priest who will be helping out on Sundays, we always get a little bio story.

If I happen to know anybody in one of his previous assignments, I always call them up and chat about him, find out his interests, see if they like his homilies, see if they like him for confession or not…

Hard to believe pastors don’t do this too. It’s not like we have thousands of priests in most diocese that never know each other. Not even a phone to the claimed previous pastor?

Wouldn’t you talk to the previous department head of an employee transferred to your supervision? Of course priests are more than employees, but still…

Who knows, maybe this man has successfully pulled off the same thing in other dioceses previously, in which case he could easily supply people who would authentically vouch for him if required

 

[Leonius]

Your criticism of the OP’s pastor is out of line – the Code of Canon Law gives the proper procedure to follow in this situation, and the pastor followed it to the letter. Canon 903 explicitly mentions the case where the priest is a “complete stranger”, and still stipulates that he should be allowed to celebrate Mass.

So Canon 903 leaves us open to every convincing liar who can use a computer to make himself a letter and needs changing then doesn’t it.

Of course it still does not mean that the stranger must be given one of the public masses to say, Canon 903 could be followed by allowing the man to say a private mass I would think which is still bad but nowhere near as bad as allowing him to give people the last rites.

 

[rayne89]

So Canon 903 leaves us open to every convincing liar who can use a computer to make himself a letter and needs changing then doesn’t it.

Of course it still does not mean that the stranger must be given one of the public masses to say, Canon 903 could be followed by allowing the man to say a private mass I would think which is still bad but nowhere near as bad as allowing him to give people the last rites.

This guy was doing last rites on his own at the hospital before he met my pastor, my pastor had nothing to do with that part.

 

[aicirt]

Were any of the abusers from the the pedophile scandal fake priests? To my knowledge they were all real priests, so checking their references wouldn’t have helped.

Our pastor followed the proper procedure. I’m sure things will be different now but there was no reason to suspect. So my pastor is guilty and the poor, mentally disturbed impostor is innocent. Great.

Don’t roll your eyes. To my knowledge, the pedophile priests were transferred to other parishes without the accepting pastor given knowlegde of their past actions. With the pedophile priests being Church history, it would have behooved ALL pastors to pick up a phone and do a background check from that time to this time. How do you know this guy, although not a priest, wasn’t a pedophile?

 

[rayne89]

Don’t roll your eyes. To my knowledge, the pedophile priests were transferred to other parishes without the accepting pastor given knowlegde of their past actions. With the pedophile priests being Church history, it would have behooved ALL pastors to pick up a phone and do a background check from that time to this time. How do you know this guy, although not a priest, wasn’t a pedophile?

That is not the point. And do you think that with those pedophile priest a phone call would have gotten them the information they needed? No one was talking -that was the problem.

The point is our pastor followed the proper procedure and this guy gave him no reason be suspicious. Instead of blaming the impostor who duped us all the blame is being placed on a wonderful, faithful priest whom I’m sure is deeply pained that this happened “on his watch.” As Catholics were are sure are quick to throw our holy priests under the bus.

 

[lizaanne]

The point is our pastor followed the proper procedure and this guy gave him no reason be suspicious. Instead of blaming the impostor who duped us all the blame is being placed on a wonderful, faithful priest whom I’m sure is deeply pained that this happened “on his watch.” As Catholics were are sure are quick to throw our holy priests under the bus.

No kidding - I am just amazed at how many fingers are pointing to the pastor of the parish and not at the fraud. Father is one of the most wonderful and holy priests I’ve known, and to think that HE is taking the heat for this and not the guy who actually did the deed is just beyond my comprehension.

~Liza

 

[aicirt]

That is not the point. And do you think that with those pedophile priest a phone call would have gotten them the information they needed? No one was talking -that was the problem.

The point is our pastor followed the proper procedure and this guy gave him no reason be suspicious. Instead of blaming the impostor who duped us all the blame is being placed on a wonderful, faithful priest whom I’m sure is deeply pained that this happened “on his watch.” As Catholics were are sure are quick to throw our holy priests under the bus.

Sorry, it is the point. I’m sure the pastor is a lovely man and he followed the procedure. I’m saying change the procedure. This man was an imposter who could have been a pedophile, a thief, a rapist.

Because a phone call wasn’t made to the previous parishes of the pedophile priests, we will never know what information would have been given. The accepting parish certainly should have been told what kind of problems this man had but, obviously, that wasn’t done either…many times.

It isn’t your pastor’s fault that he was manipulated. One learns from mistakes and changes the procedures.

 

[lizaanne]

One learns from mistakes and changes the procedures.

Talk to the Vatican. Unless you think one parish priest can change the procedures for the entire Church.

And, as a side note, even if Father DID make phone calls to this guy’s previous locations I’m sure they would have been stellar reports. Keep in mind, the references he would give would be those where he was successful, was liked, and not found out, and so any phone calls for references would have not revealed anything either. So then take it even further? Oh, so now priests are supposed to be private investigators now too?

Sorry - this is NOT the fault of the parish priest. Any more than a woman raped asks for it because she trusts a man she is with who is known and trusted by everyone around her.

Yes - there is a learning moment here, but that does not mean that Father did anything wrong to begin with.

~Liza

 

[Maria1212]

I will keep everyone involved in my prayers. I will pray especially hard for his pastor because I am sure he feels horrible at this betrayal even though this was not his fault.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[ChristinaM]

No kidding - I am just amazed at how many fingers are pointing to the pastor of the parish and not at the fraud. Father is one of the most wonderful and holy priests I’ve known, and to think that HE is taking the heat for this and not the guy who actually did the deed is just beyond my comprehension.

~Liza

I really find some of these responses to be lacking in compassion as well. I’m sure the pastor is blaming himself plenty at this point.

My prayers for the pastor and the parish.

 

[Maria1212]

I really find some of these responses to be lacking in compassion as well. I’m sure the pastor is blaming himself plenty at this point.

My prayers for the pastor and the parish.

I agree with you completely. I am joining you in prayer for this pastor and for the parish.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[flatlanderjenn]

Something similiar happened in Yuma:
msnbc.msn.com/id/18300507/wid/11915829/page/3/

 

[aicirt]

Something similiar happened in Yuma:
msnbc.msn.com/id/18300507/wid/11915829/page/3/

Hmmm. Think there might be others out there?

Although my postings don’t seem charitable to the pastor in the original post, let me
share when my son had to present his baptismal cerificate for his pending nuptials. His wife was baptized in Europe. The secretary of the parish explained to me that one of the reasons the certificate is required is to assure that no one is committing bigamy. Apparently, it is noted when a previous verification of baptism has been made and for what purpose. The secretary explained that they had an intended groom submitted his certificate. Upon checking with his diocese where he was baptized it was discovered that a check on his baptism had been made years before. He had been married in the Church and his wife was still alive.

 

[LittleDeb]

My heart goes out to all affected by this. Rayne and Lizaanne, I hope you both, and your pastor, are able to overcome your sorrow. I cannot fathom what you all are feeling right now. My prayers are with you.

 

[Matt33]

What I find a little odd is that the people on these boards that actually live in this area seem to have a "it could have happened to anyone " attitude. The fact is that due dilligence was not done. Hopefully it will be done in the future… I’ll wager it never happens on the parish priests watch ever again. We all can learn from this and we all can feel the pain that this terrible man caused.

 

[catholic79]

The poor new archbishop, this is just really sad.

oh Liza and Rayne it must be troubling for you and all members of the parish to think about what this man has done. But my heart really goes out to the families of those he gave last rites to, how horrible of this man to deceive the most vulnerable.

Mary

 

[LilyM]

What I find a little odd is that the people on these boards that actually live in this area seem to have a "it could have happened to anyone " attitude. The fact is that due dilligence was not done. Hopefully it will be done in the future… I’ll wager it never happens on the parish priests watch ever again. We all can learn from this and we all can feel the pain that this terrible man caused.

Says who? Did the priest in this situation SAY that he never did due diligence - never picked up a phone to past workplaces listed by the ‘priest’? Do we know for a fact that even had he done so he would’ve found out anything untoward? How exactly was he or the process at fault in this situation? How exactly can we even prevent fraud in situations where someone has successfully duped past employers as well, and can thus give bona fide past references?

 

[rayne89]

The fact is that due dilligence was not done. Hopefully it will be done in the future

Please present the information that I don’t have. How did you learn this “fact”? I am very curious.