C
CatholicKnight3
Guest
I have been taken to task a lot by protestants. A long time ago I worked at Sherwin Williams. I worked with several others, and one of them (actually a few of them) were devout (anti-Catholic Christians).
One of them literally thumped the bible at me. With his thumb. Thumped it at me. Telling me that Catholics are not Christians, whore of Babylon, the whole bit. It weakened me, cause quite frankly I was not well versed in the bible. I mean I knew what was written, but I took so many things for granted. This is why it became a real blessing for me.
I asked Jim (his name) if we can address one issue at a time, rather than giving me all of these issues at once. The first one was about Mary and the saints. “Praying to dead people.”
I pondered the question. (He wanted everything backed by scripture too, that was crucial) So, I looked it up. I asked whether or not he believed in what Christ told us. He said of course. I asked do you believe everything he said that was written in the gospels was for an eternal purpose? He said yes I do. So, when Christ said that those who believes in me, shall not die. Those who die in me, yet shall they live. So he looked at me with this look. I asked what do you suppose John was witnessing?
Revelation 5:8
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
So, I asked if he did not read where bodies rose from the grave upon the death of the Lord? He said he acknowledged that, since it is written.
So, I asked, who is that you are accusing? And why are you insisting that people are praying to dead people? By asking the Saints to pray for us, are Catholics not affirming Christ’s promise? Are Catholics not trusting in the Lord? Those who do anything for the sake of KINGDOM of heaven, are they not also doing it for the sake of Christ? When John is witnessing the saints and angels, along with the incense being sent up to God, are we not playing out on earth as it is in heaven? Why is John pointing out all of these things and recording them for our benefit? Is it the heavenly mass? The images are saturated with elders in long robes gathered around the alter of God. The golden chalice, the wine, the blood, the bread, the body.
Along with the fact that an entire chapter dedicated to the woman that gave birth to the MALE CHILD. The one that was crowned with 12 stars? The one that was pursued by the devil? The one that went to wage war with the rest of HER OFF SPRING? All those who bear witness to Jesus and keep his commandments? You couple that with what Jesus said from the cross on John chapter 19 where he said BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. Notice He did not say Behold MY MOTHER. No, He said BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER.
Those words are eternal. Not temporal.
I asked him if he believes the word of God is merely a book of words printed on a page or carved in stone. I asked whether or not if he believes the word is alive in our hearts. If the living word comes alive as we are enlightened by the Holy Spirit.
I am pretty sure I answered the question about “praying to dead people.”
I guess in my scrupulous nature, I question if these answers were correct, or was it merely me not understanding the word.
Again, there are thousands upon thousands of interpretations of the word. How are we suppose to know if we have the correct interpretation? Can we really base it on mere enlightenment, even if that enlightenment contradicts Church teaching?
Doesn’t 1 Timothy 3:15 say the CHURCH IS THE PILLAR OF TRUTH?
I am very weak in my faith at times, so please do not think I am boasting. Sometimes I love to share enlightenment with others.
Again. In my heart I believe that we as CHRISTIANS (Yes Catholics are Christian) belong to a family of GOD. I believe that we share with the SAINTS, and the KINGDOM includes these SAINTS that are alive. Not according to me, but according to the promises of Christ. According the witness of John. Giving us glimpses of what the HEAVENLY MASS is. If we are going to be faithful to Christ, won’t the words of his prayer be fulfilled? When CHRIST says, “Thy KINGDOM COME, THEY WILL BE DONE…ON EARTH…AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?”
Which church imitates ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?
Which one beholds our MOTHER as CHRIST SAID TO DO from the cross? If he did not mean for us to BEHOLD OUR MOTHER and those words were NOT ETERNAL, are we to really believe that everything else HE said was for an eternal purpose with the exception of that? Is that the rock I am to accept? Even though it affirms that we are the offspring of the WOMAN WHO GAVE BIRTH? I know many say that refers only to Israel. Well, Christ did not say from the cross with BEHOLD ISRAEL as our MOTHER. Did HE?
I hope I do not lead anyone astray. I am hoping that what I am saying is in line with the teachings of the Church.
Forgive me if what I am saying is wrong.
Pray for me.
One of them literally thumped the bible at me. With his thumb. Thumped it at me. Telling me that Catholics are not Christians, whore of Babylon, the whole bit. It weakened me, cause quite frankly I was not well versed in the bible. I mean I knew what was written, but I took so many things for granted. This is why it became a real blessing for me.
I asked Jim (his name) if we can address one issue at a time, rather than giving me all of these issues at once. The first one was about Mary and the saints. “Praying to dead people.”
I pondered the question. (He wanted everything backed by scripture too, that was crucial) So, I looked it up. I asked whether or not he believed in what Christ told us. He said of course. I asked do you believe everything he said that was written in the gospels was for an eternal purpose? He said yes I do. So, when Christ said that those who believes in me, shall not die. Those who die in me, yet shall they live. So he looked at me with this look. I asked what do you suppose John was witnessing?
Revelation 5:8
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
So, I asked if he did not read where bodies rose from the grave upon the death of the Lord? He said he acknowledged that, since it is written.
So, I asked, who is that you are accusing? And why are you insisting that people are praying to dead people? By asking the Saints to pray for us, are Catholics not affirming Christ’s promise? Are Catholics not trusting in the Lord? Those who do anything for the sake of KINGDOM of heaven, are they not also doing it for the sake of Christ? When John is witnessing the saints and angels, along with the incense being sent up to God, are we not playing out on earth as it is in heaven? Why is John pointing out all of these things and recording them for our benefit? Is it the heavenly mass? The images are saturated with elders in long robes gathered around the alter of God. The golden chalice, the wine, the blood, the bread, the body.
Along with the fact that an entire chapter dedicated to the woman that gave birth to the MALE CHILD. The one that was crowned with 12 stars? The one that was pursued by the devil? The one that went to wage war with the rest of HER OFF SPRING? All those who bear witness to Jesus and keep his commandments? You couple that with what Jesus said from the cross on John chapter 19 where he said BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. Notice He did not say Behold MY MOTHER. No, He said BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER.
Those words are eternal. Not temporal.
I asked him if he believes the word of God is merely a book of words printed on a page or carved in stone. I asked whether or not if he believes the word is alive in our hearts. If the living word comes alive as we are enlightened by the Holy Spirit.
I am pretty sure I answered the question about “praying to dead people.”
I guess in my scrupulous nature, I question if these answers were correct, or was it merely me not understanding the word.
Again, there are thousands upon thousands of interpretations of the word. How are we suppose to know if we have the correct interpretation? Can we really base it on mere enlightenment, even if that enlightenment contradicts Church teaching?
Doesn’t 1 Timothy 3:15 say the CHURCH IS THE PILLAR OF TRUTH?
I am very weak in my faith at times, so please do not think I am boasting. Sometimes I love to share enlightenment with others.
Again. In my heart I believe that we as CHRISTIANS (Yes Catholics are Christian) belong to a family of GOD. I believe that we share with the SAINTS, and the KINGDOM includes these SAINTS that are alive. Not according to me, but according to the promises of Christ. According the witness of John. Giving us glimpses of what the HEAVENLY MASS is. If we are going to be faithful to Christ, won’t the words of his prayer be fulfilled? When CHRIST says, “Thy KINGDOM COME, THEY WILL BE DONE…ON EARTH…AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?”
Which church imitates ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?
Which one beholds our MOTHER as CHRIST SAID TO DO from the cross? If he did not mean for us to BEHOLD OUR MOTHER and those words were NOT ETERNAL, are we to really believe that everything else HE said was for an eternal purpose with the exception of that? Is that the rock I am to accept? Even though it affirms that we are the offspring of the WOMAN WHO GAVE BIRTH? I know many say that refers only to Israel. Well, Christ did not say from the cross with BEHOLD ISRAEL as our MOTHER. Did HE?
I hope I do not lead anyone astray. I am hoping that what I am saying is in line with the teachings of the Church.
Forgive me if what I am saying is wrong.
Pray for me.
