When and how to use the thurible?

[PLAT]

A few years ago I moved to another parish because of relocation. Anyway what confused me is the fact that the use of thurible is different in the two. For this I will illustrate the differences, and hope that I can get an answer. (I am talking about Sunday mass)

Parish 1 always uses incense in every mass, including the sunset one on Saturday. Parish 2 only uses incense in grand (e.g. Easter Vigil, Midnight Mass) or semi-grand (Epithany, etc.) celebrations.

In P1 three triple swings are given for the cross (although changed to double), three double swings for the celebrant, three double swings (mid, left, right) for each of the four wings of the cathedral. In P2, three single swings for cross, two single for celebrant, and three (mid, left, right) singles for each wing.

Celebrant in P1 add incense to censer JUST before the entrance (like before the mass begins), the one in P2 adds incense after the kiss. Boys in P2 cense celebrant afterwards but those in P1 don’t. When walking to the (do you call that podium?) in P2 the Gospel is censed all the way (altar server moving backwards), not so in P1.

The altar server censes (kneeled) at both consecration and doxology (Through him with him in him…) in P2, but only consecration in P1. The thurible and boat is carried when leaving the mass in P2 but not in P1.

As a side question, are we supposed to bend down during that part of Nicene Creed (Through the holy spirit, he is born of Virgin Mary and became man, and yes I can’t even learn the English language version of the Creed off by Heart)?

 

[japhy]

As a side question, are we supposed to bend down during that part of Nicene Creed (Through the holy spirit, he is born of Virgin Mary and became man, and yes I can’t even learn the English language version of the Creed off by Heart)?

Yes, we are to make a “profound bow” (a bow of the body) during the line, “By the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”

On Christmas and on the Annunciation, we genuflect at that particular line.

 

[PLAT]

A few years ago I moved to another parish because of relocation. Anyway what confused me is the fact that the use of thurible is different in the two. For this I will illustrate the differences, and hope that I can get an answer. (I am talking about Sunday mass)

Parish 1 always uses incense in every mass, including the sunset one on Saturday. Parish 2 only uses incense in grand (e.g. Easter Vigil, Midnight Mass) or semi-grand (Epithany, etc.) celebrations.

In P1 three triple swings are given for the cross (although changed to double), three double swings for the celebrant, three double swings (mid, left, right) for each of the four wings of the cathedral. In P2, three single swings for cross, two single for celebrant, and three (mid, left, right) singles for each wing.

Celebrant in P1 add incense to censer JUST before the entrance (like before the mass begins), the one in P2 adds incense after the kiss. Boys in P2 cense celebrant afterwards but those in P1 don’t. When walking to the (do you call that podium?) in P2 the Gospel is censed all the way (altar server moving backwards), not so in P1.

The altar server censes (kneeled) at both consecration and doxology (Through him with him in him…) in P2, but only consecration in P1. The thurible and boat is carried when leaving the mass in P2 but not in P1.

EDIT: Is the server supposed to “lead” or "hold the vestment of " the celebrant?

As a side question, are we supposed to bend down during that part of Nicene Creed (Through the holy spirit, he is born of Virgin Mary and became man, and yes I can’t even learn the English language version of the Creed off by Heart)?

 

[TheMc]

A few years ago I moved to another parish because of relocation. Anyway what confused me is the fact that the use of thurible is different in the two. For this I will illustrate the differences, and hope that I can get an answer. (I am talking about Sunday mass)

Parish 1 always uses incense in every mass, including the sunset one on Saturday. Parish 2 only uses incense in grand (e.g. Easter Vigil, Midnight Mass) or semi-grand (Epithany, etc.) celebrations.

There is no directive that I know of requiring incense anytime, even on very solemn occasions, such as the ones you mentioned, but I personally love it when a parish uses incense every week. My parish does, and it is wonderful.

In P1 three triple swings are given for the cross (although changed to double), three double swings for the celebrant, three double swings (mid, left, right) for each of the four wings of the cathedral. In P2, three single swings for cross, two single for celebrant, and three (mid, left, right) singles for each wing.

This is tricky, although I think P1 has it right.

The definition of “a swing” in the GIRM is [woosh----woosh] (if that makes any scene).

So “Three swings” in the GIRM is

[woosh----woosh-----------woosh----woosh-------------woosh----woosh] (triple doubles)

And the following things are incenced with “three swings”:
Most Blessed Sacrament, a relic of the Holy Cross and images of the Lord exposed for public veneration, the offerings for the sacrifice of the Mass, the altar cross, the Book of the Gospels, the Paschal Candle, the priest, and the people.

The following are incensed with “two swings”

Relics and images of the Saints exposed for public veneration (as well as deacons, I believe).

(see P 277 on this page)

In this case, I don’t blame P2, because to get this definition of a swing, our Diocese’s MC had to look into the latin for a while for it to be clear. In the english, it only says “swing”, leaving it unclear, and in a situation like P2.

Celebrant in P1 add incense to censer JUST before the entrance (like before the mass begins), the one in P2 adds incense after the kiss.

P1: correct again (GIRM 120).

Boys in P2 cense celebrant afterwards but those in P1 don’t.

Don’t. It’s simply not in the books. If it were, it would be here: GIRM 123-124

When walking to the (do you call that podium?) in P2 the Gospel is censed all the way (altar server moving backwards), not so in P1.

Hmmm… Seems like an odd tradition. Again, the GIRM only calls for the book of the gospels being incenced after the introduction (the lord be with you, and also with you, a reading from …) (GIRM 133-134). I’d go with P1 again.

The altar server censes (kneeled) at both consecration and doxology (Through him with him in him…) in P2, but only consecration in P1.

In this case, P1 is right. The GIRM does not specify for the sacred species to be incensed at the doxology.(GIRM #272)

The thurible and boat is carried when leaving the mass in P2 but not in P1.

In this case, P1 is right. The GIRM does call for incense at the recession, not to mention there’s “no point” to doing it (theologically).

As a side question, are we supposed to bend down during that part of Nicene Creed (Through the holy spirit, he is born of Virgin Mary and became man, and yes I can’t even learn the English language version of the Creed off by Heart)?

Yep, we should be making a profound bow at those words.

I hope this helps you!

 

[PLAT]

I am to say tyvm, but figured out that “Thank you very much” is a better phrase.

And btw, should the server “lead” or hold the preist’s vestment when walking around the altar with the censer?

 

[TheMc]

I am to say tyvm, but figured out that “Thank you very much” is a better phrase.

And btw, should the server “lead” or hold the preist’s vestment when walking around the altar with the censer?

Hmm… I’ve always understood it to be done by the deacon(s), but if the priest wants it, I haven’t seen anything to the contrary anywhere. The GIRM simply says:
"GIRM:

The priest goes up to the altar and venerates it with a kiss. Then, as the occasion suggests, he incenses the cross and the altar, walking around the latter.

 

[PLAT]

Hmm… I’ve always understood it to be done by the deacon(s), but if the priest wants it, I haven’t seen anything to the contrary anywhere. The GIRM simply says:

Well, if a deacon is present right? The preist used to walk around the altar on his own.

 

[TheMc]

Well, if a deacon is present right? The preist used to walk around the altar on his own.

Yes, although he could have an MC go with him, since in the ordinary form, MC’s are “invisible” (and can go where ever they want or are needed).
Here’s what my bishop usually does:
He usually goes around the altar “alone” for masses with no deacons, and when there is (a) deacon(s), one of them goes with him.

At papal Masses though, the pope goes around with his two MCs and two deacons

Deacon—MC—Pope–(MC)–Deacon

Too bad that arrangement wouldn’t fit around the altar at my parish!

 

[TheMc]

In this case, P1 is right. The GIRM does call for incense at the recession, not to mention there’s “no point” to doing it (theologically).

Just reading back through the thread, and have a minor correction. In my first post, the quoted text above should read:
“The GIRM does not call for…”

 

[k8e308]

Glad to know that others are so interested in the fine details of liturgy.

I just wanted to note that in the parish I grew up in, the altar server with the thurible processed in at the front of the procession (followed by the AS with the Crucifix, then the AS’s with the candles, then deacon, then priest). The AS with the thurible processed out as well, but followed the AS with the crucifix. This was for practical, rather than liturgical reasons. That church building had no back entrance where the thurible could be safely placed while the congregation exited after Mass. Therefore, the thurible had to be brought back to the narthex.

It’s possible that the other incorrect usages of the incense at your current parish arise from a lack of familiarity since incense is not used frequently. You may want to respectfully bring it to the attention of your liturgist.

 

[TheMc]

Glad to know that others are so interested in the fine details of liturgy.

As am I. I don’t mean to offend anyone, or anger the powers that be, but one thing that I’ve noticed is the better the liturgy, the better the priest.

I admire any priest that has enough common sense to pay attention to the liturgy, and celebrate it reverently, obediently, and devoutly.

It also goes the other way, but I probably don’t need to elaborate on it…

The AS with the thurible processed out as well, but followed the AS with the crucifix. This was for practical, rather than liturgical reasons. That church building had no back entrance where the thurible could be safely placed while the congregation exited after Mass. Therefore, the thurible had to be brought back to the narthex.

Interesting.

It’s possible that the other incorrect usages of the incense at your current parish arise from a lack of familiarity since incense is not used frequently. You may want to respectfully bring it to the attention of your liturgist.

Very true, and good idea K8e. We are always tweaking little things at our parish Masses, even after several years of having almost the same people for everything, so don’t get down. And never cease praying for your pastor, liturgist, choir director, and everyone else in important roles for good liturgy!

 

[thirty1]

I have a question in regards to the use of incense. When the priest/deacon gives ‘three swings’ towards the congregation, what is the congregation to do? About half the congregation makes the sign of the cross and half don’t. I’m the half that doesn’t. Just curious, b/c it always seems a little awkward.
Thanks

 

[oknazevad]

As far as I know, one makes the sign of the cross there to acknowledge the blessing that the incensing represents.

 

[PLAT]

I have a question in regards to the use of incense. When the priest/deacon gives ‘three swings’ towards the congregation, what is the congregation to do? About half the congregation makes the sign of the cross and half don’t. I’m the half that doesn’t. Just curious, b/c it always seems a little awkward.
Thanks

As far as I know, the celebrant does not cense the congregation. Are you sure you are talking about the right thing?
If the altar boy censes the congregation, then the people should bow with the thurifer.

 

[TheMc]

I have a question in regards to the use of incense. When the priest/deacon gives ‘three swings’ towards the congregation, what is the congregation to do? About half the congregation makes the sign of the cross and half don’t. I’m the half that doesn’t. Just curious, b/c it always seems a little awkward.
Thanks

I’ve never seen that done.

…When the priest/deacon gives…

Are you sure you don’t mean deacon/server? As far as I know, the priest never incenses the congregation.

 

[Vico]

The GIRM refers to the thurible: 100, 119, 120, 132, 133, 135, 144, 173, 175, 179, 190, 212, 277

Some interesting items:

The Liturgy of the Eucharist

1. After placing the chalice upon the altar, the priest bows profoundly and says quietly, In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive us).
2. If incense is used, the priest then puts some in the thurible, blesses it without saying anything, and incenses the offerings, the cross, and the altar. A minister, while standing at the side of the altar, incenses the priest and then the people.

The Liturgy of the Eucharist

1. If no deacon is present, after the Prayer of the Faithful is concluded and while the priest remains at the chair, the acolyte places the corporal, the purificator, the chalice, the pall, and the Missal on the altar. Then, if necessary, the acolyte assists the priest in receiving the gifts of the people and, if appropriate, brings the bread and wine to the altar and hands them to the priest. If incense is used, the acolyte presents the thurible to the priest and assists him while he incenses the gifts, the cross, and the altar. Then the acolyte incenses the priest and the people.

Incensation

1. Thurification or incensation is an expression of reverence and of prayer, as is signified in Sacred Scripture (cf. Ps 141 [140]:2, Rev 8:3).

Incense may be used if desired in any form of Mass:

1. 
   *]During the Entrance procession;
   *]At the beginning of Mass, to incense the cross and the altar;
   *]At the Gospel procession and the proclamation of the Gospel itself;
   *]After the bread and the chalice have been placed upon the altar, to incense the offerings, the cross, and the altar, as well as the priest and the people;
   *]At the showing of the host and the chalice after the consecration.
   1. The priest, having put incense into the thurible, blesses it with the sign of the Cross, without saying anything.
   Before and after an incensation, a profound bow is made to the person or object that is incensed, except for the incensation of the altar and the offerings for the Sacrifice of the Mass.
   
   The following are incensed with three swings of the thurible: the Most Blessed Sacrament, a relic of the Holy Cross and images of the Lord exposed for public veneration, the offerings for the sacrifice of the Mass, the altar cross, the Book of the Gospels, the Paschal Candle, the priest, and the people.
   
   The following are incensed with two swings of the thurible: relics and images of the Saints exposed for public veneration. This should be done, however, only at the beginning of the celebration, after the incensation of the altar.
   
   The altar is incensed with single swings of the thurible in this way:
   
   1. 
      *]If the altar is freestanding with respect to the wall, the priest incenses walking around it;
      *]If the altar is not freestanding, the priest incenses it while walking first to the righthand side, then to the left.
      
      The cross, if situated on or near the altar, is incensed by the priest before he incenses the altar; otherwise, he incenses it when he passes in front of it.
      
      The priest incenses the offerings with three swings of the thurible or by making the sign of the cross over the offerings with the thurible, then going on to incense the cross and the altar.

 

[TheMc]

The GIRM refers to the thurible: 100, 119, 120, 132, 133, 135, 144, 173, 175, 179, 190, 212, 277

Some interesting items:

The Liturgy of the Eucharist

1. After placing the chalice upon the altar, the priest bows profoundly and says quietly, In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive us).
2. If incense is used, the priest then puts some in the thurible, blesses it without saying anything, and incenses the offerings, the cross, and the altar. A minister, while standing at the side of the altar, incenses the priest and then the people.

The Liturgy of the Eucharist

1. If no deacon is present, after the Prayer of the Faithful is concluded and while the priest remains at the chair, the acolyte places the corporal, the purificator, the chalice, the pall, and the Missal on the altar. Then, if necessary, the acolyte assists the priest in receiving the gifts of the people and, if appropriate, brings the bread and wine to the altar and hands them to the priest. If incense is used, the acolyte presents the thurible to the priest and assists him while he incenses the gifts, the cross, and the altar. Then the acolyte incenses the priest and the people.

Incensation

1. Thurification or incensation is an expression of reverence and of prayer, as is signified in Sacred Scripture (cf. Ps 141 [140]:2, Rev 8:3).

Incense may be used if desired in any form of Mass:

1. 
   *]During the Entrance procession;
   *]At the beginning of Mass, to incense the cross and the altar;
   *]At the Gospel procession and the proclamation of the Gospel itself;
   *]After the bread and the chalice have been placed upon the altar, to incense the offerings, the cross, and the altar, as well as the priest and the people;
   *]At the showing of the host and the chalice after the consecration.
   1. The priest, having put incense into the thurible, blesses it with the sign of the Cross, without saying anything.
   Before and after an incensation, a profound bow is made to the person or object that is incensed, except for the incensation of the altar and the offerings for the Sacrifice of the Mass.
   
   The following are incensed with three swings of the thurible: the Most Blessed Sacrament, a relic of the Holy Cross and images of the Lord exposed for public veneration, the offerings for the sacrifice of the Mass, the altar cross, the Book of the Gospels, the Paschal Candle, the priest, and the people.
   
   The following are incensed with two swings of the thurible: relics and images of the Saints exposed for public veneration. This should be done, however, only at the beginning of the celebration, after the incensation of the altar.
   
   The altar is incensed with single swings of the thurible in this way:
   
   1. 
      *]If the altar is freestanding with respect to the wall, the priest incenses walking around it;
      *]If the altar is not freestanding, the priest incenses it while walking first to the righthand side, then to the left.
      
      The cross, if situated on or near the altar, is incensed by the priest before he incenses the altar; otherwise, he incenses it when he passes in front of it.
      
      The priest incenses the offerings with three swings of the thurible or by making the sign of the cross over the offerings with the thurible, then going on to incense the cross and the altar.

1. 1. 
      Thanks for posting the GIRM quotes.