When and Where did Original Sin come from?

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I asked this question in the “ask an apologist” section a week ago and still haven’t heard anything back, so I’ll ask it here to get some ideas.

I recently found out that Jews (and Muslims for that matter) do not believe in Original sin, they believe that all people are born pure and sinless. In light of this I have to ask the following questions:
  1. If Jews don’t believe in original sin, what was the Messiah supposed to redeem them from?
  2. Where is original sin first mentioned in scripture?
  3. Did Jesus ever talk about original sin? If so, where?
Any help would be greatly appreciated,

-AJ
 
From CA Quick Questions:
Full Question
Is there any biblical evidence for the Catholic doctrine of original sin?
Answer
Sure. God told Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:1-24 that because of their sin they would have to work for a living, be at war with nature, suffer pain and sickness, and eventually die. Paul explains original sin in great detail in** Romans 5:12-19 and in 1 Corinthians 15:21-22.**
 
**Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 7. The Fall **
385 God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures: and above all to the question of moral evil. Where does evil come from? “I sought whence evil comes and there was no solution”, said St. Augustine,257 and his own painful quest would only be resolved by his conversion to the living God. For “the mystery of lawlessness” is clarified only in the light of the “mystery of our religion”.258 The revelation of divine love in Christ manifested at the same time the extent of evil and the superabundance of grace.259 We must therefore approach the question of the origin of evil by fixing the eyes of our faith on him who alone is its conqueror.260

**I. WHERE SIN ABOUNDED, GRACE ABOUNDED ALL THE MORE
The reality of sin **
386 Sin is present in human history; any attempt to ignore it or to give this dark reality other names would be futile. To try to understand what sin is, one must first recognize the profound relation of man to God, for only in this relationship is the evil of sin unmasked in its true identity as humanity’s rejection of God and opposition to him, even as it continues to weigh heavy on human life and history.

387 Only the light of divine Revelation clarifies the reality of sin and particularly of the sin committed at mankind’s origins. Without the knowledge Revelation gives of God we cannot recognize sin clearly and are tempted to explain it as merely a developmental flaw, a psychological weakness, a mistake, or the necessary consequence of an inadequate social structure, etc. Only in the knowledge of God’s plan for man can we grasp that sin is an abuse of the freedom that God gives to created persons so that they are capable of loving him and loving one another.

**Original sin - an essential truth of the faith **
388 With the progress of Revelation, the reality of sin is also illuminated. Although to some extent the People of God in the Old Testament had tried to understand the pathos of the human condition in the light of the history of the fall narrated in Genesis, they could not grasp this story’s ultimate meaning, which is revealed only in the light of the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.261 We must know Christ as the source of grace in order to know Adam as the source of sin. The Spirit-Paraclete, sent by the risen Christ, came to “convict the world concerning sin”,262 by revealing him who is its Redeemer.

389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the “reverse side” of the Good News that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The Church, which has the mind of Christ,263 knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.

How to read the account of the fall

390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265
 
**III. ORIGINAL SIN
Freedom put to the test **
396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: "for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die."276 The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"277 symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.

**Man’s first sin **
397 Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God’s command. This is what man’s first sin consisted of.278 All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness.

398 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God”, but “without God, before God, and not in accordance with God”.279

399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness.280 They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.281
400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul’s spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination.282 Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.283 Because of man, creation is now subject “to its bondage to decay”.284 Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will “return to the ground”,285 for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.286

401 After that first sin, the world is virtually inundated by sin There is Cain’s murder of his brother Abel and the universal corruption which follows in the wake of sin. Likewise, sin frequently manifests itself in the history of Israel, especially as infidelity to the God of the Covenant and as transgression of the Law of Moses. And even after Christ’s atonement, sin raises its head in countless ways among Christians.287 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition continually recall the presence and universality of sin in man’s history:

What Revelation makes known to us is confirmed by our own experience. For when man looks into his own heart he finds that he is drawn towards what is wrong and sunk in many evils which cannot come from his good creator. Often refusing to acknowledge God as his source, man has also upset the relationship which should link him to his last end, and at the same time he has broken the right order that should reign within himself as well as between himself and other men and all creatures.288
 
**The consequences of Adam’s sin for humanity **
402 All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the “death of the soul”.291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

406 The Church’s teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine’s reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God’s grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam’s fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297

A hard battle. . .

407 The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man’s situation and activity in the world. By our first parents’ sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails “captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil”.298 Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action299 and morals.

408 The consequences of original sin and of all men’s personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John’s expression, “the sin of the world”.300 This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men’s sins.301

409 This dramatic situation of "the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one"302 makes man’s life a battle:

The whole of man’s history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day. Finding himself in the midst of the battlefield man has to struggle to do what is right, and it is at great cost to himself, and aided by God’s grace, that he succeeds in achieving his own inner integrity.303
 
To address your question #1 -

I believe that the Jews expect the Messiah to be a human being who will become a powerful king and unite the entire world and lead it into a lasting era of peace.

Of course that’s only my opinion from my discussions with Jewish friends.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I get the original sin part now (I really should have turned to the Catechism first :o).

I still don’t understand why the Jews never saw the fall as imparting a sin through the generations even though it says it in Genesis. I don’t really have the time to look it up now but there are more than a few times in the OT (Isaiah was the last one I heard in the past month) that spoke of “redemption” by the the messiah.

Of course this makes complete sense as a Catholic, but finding out that Jesus’s contemporaries and even the Prophets who foretold of his coming didn’t believe in the very thing he was redeeming them from makes me wonder what else they could have been thinking.🤷

Thanks again,

-AJ
 
I asked this question in the “ask an apologist” section a week ago and still haven’t heard anything back, so I’ll ask it here to get some ideas.

I recently found out that Jews (and Muslims for that matter) do not believe in Original sin, they believe that all people are born pure and sinless. In light of this I have to ask the following questions:
  1. If Jews don’t believe in original sin, what was the Messiah supposed to redeem them from?
  2. Where is original sin first mentioned in scripture?
  3. Did Jesus ever talk about original sin? If so, where?
Any help would be greatly appreciated,

-AJ
All you need to know about original sin is covered in your Catechism. Why not read what it has to say? I don’t know about Muslims but I’m sure that Jews believed in original sin. They are, after all, the people of the Old Testament. Who have you been talking to :confused: ?

Linus2nd
 
I asked this question in the “ask an apologist” section a week ago and still haven’t heard anything back, so I’ll ask it here to get some ideas.

I recently found out that Jews (and Muslims for that matter) do not believe in Original sin, they believe that all people are born pure and sinless. In light of this I have to ask the following questions:

-AJ
They wouldn’t call it OS but it seems that Jews do in fact believe in some concept of it. Muslims don’t believe in it.

religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/human.htm
religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm

To be honest, I don’t really know much about Judaism. I know about Islam though.

Any way though, if you want to know more about other religions, then I can’t really think of a better site than religionfacts.com.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I get the original sin part now (I really should have turned to the Catechism first :o).

I still don’t understand why the Jews never saw the fall as imparting a sin through the generations even though it says it in Genesis. I don’t really have the time to look it up now but there are more than a few times in the OT (Isaiah was the last one I heard in the past month) that spoke of “redemption” by the the messiah.

Of course this makes complete sense as a Catholic, but finding out that Jesus’s contemporaries and even the Prophets who foretold of his coming didn’t believe in the very thing he was redeeming them from makes me wonder what else they could have been thinking.🤷

Thanks again,

-AJ
If we knew everything beforehand, we wouldn’t need God’s revelation to us. As humanity matured, as the time became ripe, God revealed more, the ultimate being the revelation of Jesus Christ. Then we take the light of this revelation and “grow into it”, so to speak, as it’s had centuries to work on us, centuries to learn from it, understand it, be changed by it.The Atonement is simultaneously the definitive statement of man’s own sinfulness (what we actually need to be saved from), and God’s forgiveness of this sin.
 
All you need to know about original sin is covered in your Catechism. Why not read what it has to say? I don’t know about Muslims but I’m sure that Jews believed in original sin. They are, after all, the people of the Old Testament. Who have you been talking to :confused: ?

Linus2nd
religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm

whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation5.html

outreachjudaism.org/articles/original-sin.html

Any site that discusses what Judaism teaches will say it.

Jews most certainly do NOT believe in original sin. In the past week every article I’ve read and every search I’ve done has been steadfast in this idea. They do not believe any sin was passed down from Adam and Eve and they FIRMLY believe that we are born pure and sinless.

You voiced my own confusion and reason for starting this thread, “They are, after all, the people of the Old Testament.”

But Orthodox, conservative, reform etc, all roundly reject the notion of original sin.
 
There is an interesting online article concerning Jewish beliefs about the Messiah:
The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as “mashiach ben David” (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being…
Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15)…
The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term “messianic age” to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.
Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people (Isaiah 2:4). Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9). Others, however, say that these statements are merely an allegory for peace and prosperity.
All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). The law of the Jubilee will be reinstated.
In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.
jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm#Jesus
 
Thanks for all the replies. I get the original sin part now (I really should have turned to the Catechism first :o).

I still don’t understand why the Jews never saw the fall as imparting a sin through the generations even though it says it in Genesis. I don’t really have the time to look it up now but there are more than a few times in the OT (Isaiah was the last one I heard in the past month) that spoke of “redemption” by the the messiah.

Of course this makes complete sense as a Catholic, but finding out that Jesus’s contemporaries and even the Prophets who foretold of his coming didn’t believe in the very thing he was redeeming them from makes me wonder what else they could have been thinking.🤷

Thanks again,

-AJ
They didn’t believe who Jesus was - the Messiah, the Son of God.

biblehub.com/john/5-46.htm

There were those who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, the Redeemer, and His Church grew.

As far as the prophets:

biblehub.com/2_peter/1-21.htm

Peace,
Ed
 
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