When animals die, do they go to heaven?

[masondoggy]

Could the proponents of eternal animal life provide one saint, Church Father or Church document to back up their view. The other side of the argument has most of the Church Fathers, if not all, (I can recall explicitly recall St. Augustine, St. Basil) and St. Thomas Aquinas as well as the other scholastics.

Nobody here is saying that we know animals have eternal life. What we are saying is that it is possible that there will at least be animals in Heaven, and maybe even possible that when God creates a new heaven and earth that he may “re-create” the pets that we love here on earth. We do know that nothing is impossible for God.

It is possible because the answer to this question has not been revealed by God to the Church, just as many other “truths” have not been revealed, just like the question as to what happens to unbaptized babies…We don’t know.

No, there is no proof. It’s just speculation. We are free to speculate because the answer has not been revealed to us yet. We’ll all find out for sure on judgement day.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

We do have Proof that people who claim to know that animals don’t go to Heaven don’t “Know” what they’re talking about–they’re only guessing.

Read Ecclesiastes 3:21 “Who knows that the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the Earth?”

The Holy Spirit inerrantly inspired those words of the Bible to be written!

Now oh non believers in animal spirits–tell us how you know more about animal spirits that you claim don’t exist than the Holy scriptures that ask “WHO KNOWS whether they go down to the Earth”?!

 

[Zooey]

Wow! Thanks so much for all of the (name removed by moderator)ut. It really means alot that you all took the time to read my silly dilemma. I just love all animals (except mice. LOL ) and wanted to make sure I wasn’t disrespecting God in any way. :angel1:

:hug3:

I have said this before, but I will tell you now. My grandmother once told me, when I asked her the same questions, that whatever we need in Heaven to be happy, we will have. I know my beloved pets are waiting for me there.

I’m hoping, right now, to see my beloved pets when I die. I know that they do not (currently) possess ‘immortal’ souls. But on reading Scripture (and prayerfully considering the life, words and works of St. Francis, to whom all creatures were ‘brothers and sisters’), I do believe that God’s plan for all (which we certainly do not know in its entirety) may include a ‘heavenly’ or ‘natural heaven’ place for His (and my) beloved ‘furries’, and if it is His will, loved pets and their ‘people’ will be reunited after death.

:yup:

Wow, I am sorry for upsetting anyone with my post, as that was not my intention. I absolutely know that humans come after God in the order of creation, I just can’t seem to wrap my head around the idea that such a gentle soul (for lack of a better word) would not be accepted into Heaven in some way. Just like someone said in a previous post (I’m sorry I forgot your name), we don’t really know what God has prepared for us, I just don’t want to offend Him - or anyone else - by hoping we will be reunited someday.

:hug3: Don’t worry, we will argue about anything around here.
I understand exactly how you feel. I have a cat I love like a baby. I have had her since she was 7 weeks old, & she thinks I am the mommy, which is just how I like it!
I truly believe that the love that we give our pets, & the affection we receive in return, makes it possible for them to go to Heaven. Bless you for all the love you gave to your pet. That is the way that God intends us to treat our animals.
Again, God bless you.

St Gertrude of Nivelles, patron saint of cats & those who love them, pray to the Lord our God for MSParrott, who is grieving the loss of a beautiful feline friend. Comfort the sorrow that we feel in the loss of such a wonderful companion. We ask this in the Name of Jesus. Amen.

 

[Joel_Tunnah]

If animals don’t have souls, why must they rest on the sabbath?

Exodus 20:10 But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.

 

[Hegesippus]

We do have Proof that people who claim to know that animals don’t go to Heaven don’t “Know” what they’re talking about–they’re only guessing.

Read Ecclesiastes 3:21 “Who knows that the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the Earth?”

The Holy Spirit inerrantly inspired those words of the Bible to be written!

Now oh non believers in animal spirits–tell us how you know more about animal spirits that you claim don’t exist than the Holy scriptures that ask “WHO KNOWS whether they go down to the Earth”?!

We, however, can cite doctors and Fathers of the Church. Your interpretation of the bible aside, there is not one Church authority you base your claim on. The other side does, including the theologian of theologians, St. Thomas Aquinas who reached the greatest heights of natural and infused knowledge.

 

[Hegesippus]

Nobody here is saying that we know animals have eternal life. What we are saying is that it is possible that there will at least be animals in Heaven, and maybe even possible that when God creates a new heaven and earth that he may “re-create” the pets that we love here on earth. We do know that nothing is impossible for God.

It is possible because the answer to this question has not been revealed by God to the Church, just as many other “truths” have not been revealed, just like the question as to what happens to unbaptized babies…We don’t know.

No, there is no proof. It’s just speculation. We are free to speculate because the answer has not been revealed to us yet. We’ll all find out for sure on judgement day.

The other side’s “opinion” however can be backed up by authoritative Catholic sources, the other side cannot.

 

[mozart-250]

Good Morning,

New poster here. I was wondering what the thoughts are about when an animal dies, to they go to Heaven? I had a 16 1/2 year old cat that passed away in March and am often finding myself wondering if she is in Heaven. I would like to think that all of God’s creatures go there, but I don’t want Him to think I am being sacreligious. Any thoughts?
:heaven:

I dunno for sure.

But I certainly see nothing sacreligious or wrong in believing that your beloved cat is in heaven.

 

[Hegesippus]

I would also like to throw Thomas Aquinas’ view that only human beings can be happy. Happiness for Aquinas, was an activity of the soul and not just a feeling. For humans to be happy one must act in accordance with his nature. For man contemplation is that which is proper to his nature and on this earth man can only attain an imperfect happiness for various reasons, but in heaven he attains perfect happiness because he contemplates God, who is goodness itself and contains the fullness of the other transcendental attributes, and reaches his natural end. Animals would not fit into this equation, in heaven, because nothing is lacking for man in the beatific vision. Animals cannot be happier in heaven than they are on earth because they do not possess the faculties to engage in the activity of happiness which is proper to the rational soul possessed only by humans. If one claims they need their pets in heaven they have a skewed vision of heaven, at least according to Aquinas. Further, animals purpose would cease to exist, not only for themselves, but to us as well because they cannot provide any more pleasure or usefulness than that which is being bestowed in the beatific vision.

 

[Hegesippus]

I think it is ironic that some people will descend into hell and not gain eternal life, but we are willing to bestow eternal life on Betsy the cow.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Should the Holy Scriptures have more weight than the opinions of any theologian–including St. Thomas Aquinas–who does not constitute the magisterium of the Catholic Church?

If St. Thomas Aquinas can be wrong about the Immaculate conception could he also be wrong about other things?

I’m not knocking St. Thomas Aquinas–he was probably the greatest theologian that ever lived–I just don’t worship every opinion he has and equate it as the dogma of the Catholic Church set forth by its magisterium.

All I know is if the Holy Spirit inerrantly inspires “Who knows?” in the Holy Scriptures regarding the spirit of animals that that holds more weight than the opinion of any theologian!

So all of you “Has to have a soul to be in Heaven” animal haters out there tell me this–does it bother you that Ecclesiaastes 3:21 indicates that animals do have spirits?

If God who is pure spirit can live in Heaven make the case why an animal spirit could not live in heaven!

Make the case wh it would be Just of God to create an animal spirit that would cease to live for all eternity because of merely the sin of man!

I’m not saying that animal spirits could not indeed be Finite if that is what God willed when He created them–I am saying that as the Holy Sciptures say “Who knows?”

Refute the Holy Scripture that says “Who knows” or acknowledge that it speaks the truth!

I think it does speak the truth!

I think we would committ the sin or Presumption to think that we know what God’s will was when He created the animals when He has not told us!

And if you’re going to tell me that they were made for man–then prove how they would be of no use to man in Heaven–if they were Good Enough in God’s eyes then–tell me why they would not be “Good” in God’s eyes later!

You can’t!

That’s why the scriptures say “Who knows?”

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I don’t see people claiming that they ‘need’ their pets to be happy in heaven on this forum at any rate. Of course, if one brings up anecdotes of people who DID say so, one can counter with scores more of people who said they wouldn’t be happy without a loved PERSON there either, so this isn’t just ‘pet’ related topic in general.

Certainly I will be happy in heaven (God grant that I get there) and in that ‘need’ sense I will not even ‘need’ to have my beloved **human ** family and friends there as well. And considering people have ‘immortal souls’ and will most definitely be in either heaven or hell for eternity, for sure, it’s funny that we animal lovers aren’t storming about ‘needing our mother/father, husband/wife, son/daughter to be HAPPY in heaven’. But we don’t, as a rule, not because we think that people have a lock on heaven (or that we prefer our PETS!) but because we do understand that happiness in heaven rests in being with GOD and not with another–be it a human or an animal.

I think a reason that people tend to blare anathemas at those who wonder about the fate of “Bossy the cow” (or Rover the dog, Jessie the cat, Tweety bird, etc.) is that (as often happens when people tend to argue extremes) it isn’t the animal itself that causes the crotchets but “Why aren’t you paying more attention to the PEOPLE instead of ‘mere’ or ‘dumb’ animals?” But it isn’t an either-or; we aren’t neglecting one for the other.

You know, none of us is going on stating categorically that we know for a fact pets are in heaven and those who want to naysay are blue meanies or worse. . .but it does seem to me that there is a lot more sniping that those of us who ‘hope’ (HOPE, mind you) for beloved animals not ‘instead’ of but in addition to beloved (or not so beloved) family and friends of the genus Homo sapiens sapiens, have our priorities bass akward, are ‘contradicting Church teachings’, and my personal favorite, implied to be theological DUMMIES for not realizing that St. Thomas Aquinas or other figures have ruled DEFINITIVELY on what God ‘does’ with animals, and how utterly ill educated, senseless, and probably SINFUL we are for even opening up our mouths to SPEAK on the subject, idiots that we are. . .

But I don’t wish to hurtle blindly toward the ‘other extreme’ in refuting those who (with good intentions I’m sure) went a little too far the ‘other’ way. Hopefully most of us can come to a very reasonable understanding that God can do what He chooses and that all He does will be perfectly right and just–none of us can say definitely that He WILL NOT choose to bring animals into eternal life, and none of us can say that He WILL, either. I’m perfectly content to leave it in HIS hands.

 

[Joel_Tunnah]

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.”
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

 

[Hegesippus]

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.”
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

non existence

 

[Hegesippus]

I don’t see people claiming that they ‘need’ their pets to be happy in heaven on this forum at any rate. Of course, if one brings up anecdotes of people who DID say so, one can counter with scores more of people who said they wouldn’t be happy without a loved PERSON there either, so this isn’t just ‘pet’ related topic in general.

Certainly I will be happy in heaven (God grant that I get there) and in that ‘need’ sense I will not even ‘need’ to have my beloved **human ** family and friends there as well. And considering people have ‘immortal souls’ and will most definitely be in either heaven or hell for eternity, for sure, it’s funny that we animal lovers aren’t storming about ‘needing our mother/father, husband/wife, son/daughter to be HAPPY in heaven’. But we don’t, as a rule, not because we think that people have a lock on heaven (or that we prefer our PETS!) but because we do understand that happiness in heaven rests in being with GOD and not with another–be it a human or an animal.

I think a reason that people tend to blare anathemas at those who wonder about the fate of “Bossy the cow” (or Rover the dog, Jessie the cat, Tweety bird, etc.) is that (as often happens when people tend to argue extremes) it isn’t the animal itself that causes the crotchets but “Why aren’t you paying more attention to the PEOPLE instead of ‘mere’ or ‘dumb’ animals?” But it isn’t an either-or; we aren’t neglecting one for the other.

You know, none of us is going on stating categorically that we know for a fact pets are in heaven and those who want to naysay are blue meanies or worse. . .but it does seem to me that there is a lot more sniping that those of us who ‘hope’ (HOPE, mind you) for beloved animals not ‘instead’ of but in addition to beloved (or not so beloved) family and friends of the genus Homo sapiens sapiens, have our priorities bass akward, are ‘contradicting Church teachings’, and my personal favorite, implied to be theological DUMMIES for not realizing that St. Thomas Aquinas or other figures have ruled DEFINITIVELY on what God ‘does’ with animals, and how utterly ill educated, senseless, and probably SINFUL we are for even opening up our mouths to SPEAK on the subject, idiots that we are. . .

But I don’t wish to hurtle blindly toward the ‘other extreme’ in refuting those who (with good intentions I’m sure) went a little too far the ‘other’ way. Hopefully most of us can come to a very reasonable understanding that God can do what He chooses and that all He does will be perfectly right and just–none of us can say definitely that He WILL NOT choose to bring animals into eternal life, and none of us can say that He WILL, either. I’m perfectly content to leave it in HIS hands.

God wills whatever he wants, but God and reason do not contradict. It is reasonable that only man and God, and other rational beings are eternal. that is what it means to be made in the image of God. We are directed towards the infinite, animals are not.

Actually just like Ike, I am done. It was not just Thomas Aquinas that taught this, but any philosopher of the Catholic Church worth 2 cents taught the same thing. Mainly because by animals being in heaven they were elevated to the dignity that of humans.

 

[Church_Militant]

Did everyone miss this passage?

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in my heart concerning the sons of men, that God would prove them, and shew them to be like beasts. 19 Therefore the death of man, and of beasts is one, and the condition of them both is equal: as man dieth, so they also die: all things breathe alike, and man hath nothing more than beast: all things are subject to vanity. 20 And all things go to one place: of earth they were made, and into earth they return together. 21 Who knoweth if the spirit of the children of Adam ascend upward, and if the spirit of the beasts descend downward?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Thanks, CM. I’m glad you brought that passage to our attention.
I hope that it makes people ‘think again’.

 

[MSParrott]

My sincerest thanks to everyone who has responded. I definitely have a better understanding of both sides of this discussion, and I know that only God know what he has in store for us and whatever that may be, it is for the best.

I have been reading the posts (not just in this thread, but the others posted on this site) and as corny as it probably sounds, I feel blessed to have found this area of the internet, as I have found many great resources and opinions. It is my hope that one day I can respond to one and feel like I am making a valid contribution.

Thanks again for everyone’s response. It really touched my heart.

God Bless.

 

[coleraine]

no one can tell me what to think. i do what i have to to stay out of mortal sin, but as far as these things go, i believe what i want. i believe we will see animals in heaven.

 

[VeronicaAnne]

Good Morning,

New poster here. I was wondering what the thoughts are about when an animal dies, to they go to Heaven? I had a 16 1/2 year old cat that passed away in March and am often finding myself wondering if she is in Heaven. I would like to think that all of God’s creatures go there, but I don’t want Him to think I am being sacreligious. Any thoughts?

:heaven:

I haven’t ready anybody else’s posts here… so please forgive me if I duplicate someone else’s response.

No. Animals do NOT go to Heaven after they die. Animals do not have a soul… only a spirit without a soul. They are NOT made in God’s own image – only humans are. Only humans have an immortal soul which is part of their being as soon as God creates them. Therefore, animals do not have immortality in their future, as we humans do.

Hope this helps.

By the way, you would not be being sacriligeous if you decided to believe that creatures go to Heaven. You would merely be in error.

 

[valient_Lucy]

When animals die, since they don’t have immortal souls, they don’t go to heaven.
On the other hand, is it possible that at the end of time, when there is a “new heaven and a new earth,” is it possible that there will be “new” animals in the new heaven and earth? I think it’s possible, but I don’t know. It’s also equally possible that there won’t be. We’ll just have to find out.