When annulments go bad?

[cqdcqdmgy]

My uncle and aunt both applied for annulments because they were both married previously before they got married together, and he got his, but she did not get hers. The priest was shocked, because she has the better chance, and not him.

If the two are still married, and I believe they might have been married Lutheran but are Catholic today, what is their status of their marriage. Both of their ex’s from their previous marriage are still alive, and both remarried. Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut folks…

 

[1ke]

My uncle and aunt both applied for annulments because they were both married previously before they got married together, and he got his, but she did not get hers. The priest was shocked, because she has the better chance, and not him.

If the two are still married, and I believe they might have been married Lutheran but are Catholic today, what is their status of their marriage. Both of their ex’s from their previous marriage are still alive, and both remarried. Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut folks…

They are committing adultery by living together as man and wife. They were not free to marry each other, she is bound by her marriage to her first husband which was found to be valid.

They can return to the Sacraments if they cease having sexual relations and live as brother & sister, or if they separate.

It is a shame that people go against Church teaching, marry outside the church when they are not free to do so, and then get themselves in a big mess they can’t get out of when they want to reuturn to the Sacraments.

 

[kage_ar]

An annulment did not go bad. The Tribunal reviewed a case and found that the marriage in question is valid. The person who requested the review is vaildly married and is not free to marry someone else.

Makes me wonder, does no one ever teach the nuts and bolts of marriage to young people

 

[gmarie21]

An annulment did not go bad. The Tribunal reviewed a case and found that the marriage in question is valid. The person who requested the review is vaildly married and is not free to marry someone else.

Makes me wonder, does no one ever teach the nuts and bolts of marriage to young people

They may be taught, but don’t always listen or give themselves space to be sure they’ll be entering a valid marriage.

 

[Seatuck]

My uncle and aunt both applied for annulments because they were both married previously before they got married together, and he got his, but she did not get hers. The priest was shocked, because she has the better chance, and not him.

If the two are still married, and I believe they might have been married Lutheran but are Catholic today, what is their status of their marriage. Both of their ex’s from their previous marriage are still alive, and both remarried. Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut folks…

Your Aunt can appeal her case. Does she have an advocate from the marriage tribunal? If not she should contact the tribunal and get some help with the appeal. I’m not sure how this exactly happens but the people at the tribunal know.

The status of thier marriage is that it is not valid. I’m sorry about that.

 

[cqdcqdmgy]

An annulment did not go bad

It is when a priest says to someone that it looks like she has a good chance of getting it annulled and it does not get annulled. And when the priest says to the husband that his was most likely valid. In any case, thanks for your thoughts.

 

[cqdcqdmgy]

It is a shame that people go against Church teaching, marry outside the church when they are not free to do so, and then get themselves in a big mess they can’t get out of when they want to return to the Sacraments.

They were not Catholic at the time of being married the 2nd time(from my understanding), so they could not get an annulment since they were not Catholic, nor were they going against the church since they were not Catholic. It certainly does sound like a mess, especially after 25 years being married to each other, yet not under the Church.

I need to find out what procedures they took to become validly Catholic, and if they are both Catholic. Any other suggestions that I might ask? I definetly recommend them trying to have it re-evaluated, especially if he feels strong about their case. Thanks again.

 

[jrabs]

It is when a priest says to someone that it looks like she has a good chance of getting it annulled and it does not get annulled. And when the priest says to the husband that his was most likely valid. In any case, thanks for your thoughts.

The priest has only a vague idea when the applicant approaches him to start the process.

I will also repeat what kage_ar said. The annulment did not go bad - just that the priest did not have the entire set of facts as does the Tribunal.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

I will also repeat what kage_ar said. The annulment did not go bad - just that the priest did not have the entire set of facts as does the Tribunal.

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I didn’t interpret “When annulments go bad” as meaning, “When annulments expire” or something. I read it like, “When an annulment situation goes bad and/or turns out poorly from what the couple wanted.”

Or perhaps I’m just confused. :whacky:

 

[mamacita]

My uncle and aunt both applied for annulments because they were both married previously before they got married together, and he got his, but she did not get hers. The priest was shocked, because she has the better chance, and not him.

If the two are still married, and I believe they might have been married Lutheran but are Catholic today, what is their status of their marriage. Both of their ex’s from their previous marriage are still alive, and both remarried. Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut folks…

Any idea why her’s did not go through? That would be so aggravating, after all that time and effort and to think you have a good case…I would be a little frustrated but must agree with the fact that they should live as brother and sister if they want to live together, or else they cannot receive the Sacraments…just my :twocents:

 

[kage_ar]

Putting on my teacher hat for a minute - the church does not grant “annulments” or “annul” marriages. This term gives the appearance that the Church can make a marriage “go away”.

The Church teaches that a wedding results in either a valid marriage or no marriage at all. People can go thruogh a wedding, and live together and have kids and never have had a vaild marriage. OTOH, they can go through a wedding, consumate the marriage and never live together another day, get a civil divorce and have a vaild marriage. Divorce does not end a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church.

When people have reason, they may ask the marriage tribunal to review the validity of a marriage. The tribunal gathers evidence, reviews this evidence, and determines if the marriage was valid or not at the point of the wedding. If the tribunal determines that the wedding did not result in a valid marriage, then that marriage is declaried to have been null (non existant, never happend, void).

Thus, annulment’s don’t go bad (unless you are speaking of a State/Civil annulment - that is a civil matter, not a Church matter).

Second thing, the idea of remarriage after civil divorce not being permissable is from Christ’s teaching in the New Testament, it is a Christian thing - not just a Catholic thing. The sad thing is, almost every Christian denomination has given in to social pressure and now gives the “okay” for people to attempt re-marriage after a civil divorce. Sadly, when these people come to the Fullness of the Faith in the Catholic Church, they learn that these are Christ’s laws for all marriages.

Many prayers for your family.

They do have an appeal process that will have another review of the case.

 

[jrabs]

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I didn’t interpret “When annulments go bad” as meaning, “When annulments expire” or something. I read it like, “When an annulment situation goes bad and/or turns out poorly from what the couple wanted.”

Or perhaps I’m just confused. :whacky:

Thing is, the annulment did not “go bad” - the wording selected is odd to me. It either got rejected by the tribunal or got approved and a decree of nullity was granted. If it got rejected, it still did not go bad. It just means from what the Tribunal can determine, a valid marriage did take place.

People progress hopefully as if all annulments are granted. Fact is that they are not and it is no fault of the Tribunal that they found a valid marriage had taken place.

Yes, there is the chance for a appeal and as such, all may turn out fine in the end. I am sorry that the OP’s aunt is disappointed and I do pray that a different outcome is in her future.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Thing is, the annulment did not “go bad” - the wording selected is odd to me.

Yeah, I know the annulment did not “go bad,” but the present circumstances surrounding the declaration of the validity of the first marriage are pretty bad (i.e., couple got involved with each other assuming they were going to be granted a decree of nullity and are now disappointed because one of them is still married to someone else).

Sigh I guess I’m coming across as pretty confusing, too. I just wanted to assure everyone that I know that annulments can not “go bad.”

 

[cqdcqdmgy]

Thing is, the annulment did not “go bad” - the wording selected is odd to me.

Many thanks to you all for your help. I apologize if the subject was not coded properly, but what I was getting at was if they remained Lutheran and remarried, in their eyes and hearts, they would be validly divorced and everything is peachy. When they became Catholic, they found out his went through, hers did not. Therefore going bad (as in not as planned). Nothing to do with if the bad as in wrong or something the Church did or did not do properly.

I believe my uncle might do the appeal, but he mentioned it would cost $2k or something to do it all over again, or a review? Any thoughts? And again, so many thanks to you all. These are always touchy subjects, that essentially could hurt a family more then help if a couple were to chose not to live as brother and sister or not at all.

 

[lizaanne]

It could very well be quite costly to appeal. Often times (but not always) an inital petition for nullity may be paid for by the Archdioces where the person resides. But any appeals are paid for by the one who requests the appeal, and the appeal must go to Rome. Which means that many documents must be translated into Italian, a cost that the petitioner must pay for as well.

I strongly suggest getting them this book: Annulment: The Wedding That Was It will answer many of these questions for you, it is an excellent resource, and very easy to read and use.

~Liza

 

[chevalier]

What’s bad is that “annulments” (proper term: decree of nullity) are regarded as a legitimate way of fixing some illegitimate acts (divorce). In fact, nullity decrees have nothing to do with divorce. They only regard the validity of marriage as contracted when it was contracted. So that’s when they go bad - when they’re made into “Catholic divorce”. Calling it “annulment” leads that way as well, since annulment consists in nullifying something which is not null (what you do with illegal administrative acts in some countries, for instance), while marriage is either valid or null from the very beginning and you can’t make it null if it isn’t null. The proceedings in the Tribunal consist in investigation and declaration. There is no making of anything new, no changing reality.

 

[mean_owen]

Here’s a follow-up to the previous question:

My friends are both Catholic. He previously married Catholic, had lots of kids with his wife, but then his wife left him for another guy (apparently she’d been cheating on him for a while beforehand). Sounded like he might have had a good case for an annulment, but he never did apply for one.

Several years later, he did remarry. His second wife had been born, raised Catholic, but got weird for a while and got married in a Protestant ceremony. Had kids. He turned out to be very abusive and she eventually left.

Neither of these two applied for an annulment; they felt like that would have negative effects on their children (i.e. make them illegit). So, these two got married (seems like the minister was a former RC priest, but now belonged to some other group).

Since they didn’t go through the annulment process, are their options (i.e. if they want to get good with the Church) pretty much as somebody mentioned above? Essentially, confess their sins and separate? They couldn’t go back and apply for an anulment now, could they?

Thanks for your responses.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Neither of these two applied for an annulment; they felt like that would have negative effects on their children (i.e. make them illegit). So, these two got married (seems like the minister was a former RC priest, but now belonged to some other group).

The children would still be legitimate.

Since they didn’t go through the annulment process, are their options (i.e. if they want to get good with the Church) pretty much as somebody mentioned above? Essentially, confess their sins and separate? They couldn’t go back and apply for an anulment now, could they?

Yes they could.

Assuming they both received declarations of nullity for their earlier marriages, they could have their marriage convalidated, go to confession, and begin receiving the sacraments again.

 

[mean_owen]

Thanks for your reply, SuscipeMeDomine. I know that these two are interested in returning to the faith, but get the impression that they don’t know how, and/or think that it’s impossible.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Thanks for your reply, SuscipeMeDomine. I know that these two are interested in returning to the faith, but get the impression that they don’t know how, and/or think that it’s impossible.

As far as knowing how, they need to start by talking with their priest. He’ll be able to advise them on what they need to do and how to do it.

I might have thought that annulments were rare, but once I got involved with RCIA I discovered how many people have marriage problems. So I’m sure that priests are VERY familiar with what they need to do.