When are bishops in communion with one another and with the pope?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Communion does not mean submission. You’re still confusing two different issues.

Communion means that they are fully members of the Catholic Church. In this context, they are not only members they are more-specifically bishops.

My point was that it did not mean submission. What does it mean specifically to say the bishops are in communion with the Church on a certain issue? What does communion mean?

 

[LongingSoul]

My point was that it did not mean submission. What does it mean specifically to say the bishops are in communion with the Church on a certain issue? What does communion mean?

I brought the word ‘submission’ into it, but I wasn’t saying that communion meant submission but that submission is a key aspect of those ‘in communion.’ I would think that a secular concept that kind of shows it would be that of the ‘common good’. We of course easily identify as individuals and have a strong sense of our own wants, needs, opinions, perspectives… but we suppress the primacy of that experience in order to live in society. We concern ourselves with the common good in order that a greater good is served ie. the best situation for every person… not just our own personal good. By participating in social life as in conforming to rules and ideals that we don’t necessarily experience or understand fully, we are submitting to a calling to be part of a bigger entity. We identify more as cog in a big engine and when our leaders speak, they speak as representatives of the common good (one hopes) and not solely as individuals with an opinion.

The bishops in communion with each other and with the Pope, are identifying as part of the body of Christ ie. the Church.

The then Cardinal Ratzinger wrote a letter about communion here…

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_28051992_communionis-notio_en.html

 

[ichabode]

My point was that it did not mean submission. What does it mean specifically to say the bishops are in communion with the Church on a certain issue? What does communion mean?

It seems Fr David already answered this. You are linking two different concepts. When Bishops agree with what the Church teaches that term is faith.

The term communion of Bishops is a baptized male, who has been ordained as a Bishop, and is part of the ecclesiastical community that includes the Latin rite of the Catholic Church.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It seems Fr David already answered this. You are linking two different concepts. When Bishops agree with what the Church teaches that term is faith.

The term communion of Bishops is a baptized male, who has been ordained as a Bishop, and is part of the ecclesiastical community that includes the Latin rite of the Catholic Church.

The definition of the communion of Bishops is what? Where is the definition?

 

[LongingSoul]

No. It does not mean that at all.

I keep trying to explain it.

#1 means that only the opinion of the bishops who are in Communion with the Catholic Church matter.

Other bishops need not be consulted (although they may be).

An aside question for Fr. Are all bishops not in communion with the Catholic Church still called schismatic?

 

[FrDavid96]

My point was that it did not mean submission. What does it mean specifically to say the bishops are in communion with the Church on a certain issue? What does communion mean?

.

The definition of the communion of Bishops is what? Where is the definition?

The bishops are first and foremost members of the Church. So we look to the Catechism starting with #781.

More specifically to the topic, the College of Bishops is defined starting with #880.

Rather than a post of cut-and-paste, here’s the link
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2A.HTM

Being “in Communion” does not mean being in Communion on a certain issue. Instead, it means that they are all officially (legally, canonically, etc.) members of the Catholic Church whose visible head is the pope.

Remember what this is all about. Point #1 from the OP’s original question is simply saying that when determining what is (or is not) an infallible teaching of the Church only the opinion of the Catholic bishops in union with the pope is relevant.

#1 is a bit like saying that in crafting new laws for the United States, only members of the U.S. Congress get to vote. Canada’s Parliament doesn’t get to vote. Italy’s Parliament doesn’t get to vote.

It really isn’t as complicated as this thread makes it seem. Point #1 simply says that only Catholic bishops are consulted. It’s rather straightforward.

 

[FrDavid96]

An aside question for Fr. Are all bishops not in communion with the Catholic Church still called schismatic?

That’s a rather complicated word.

In order for one to be in schism, he must be part of an actual community that is in schism. That means that an individual person cannot be in schism, simply by the definition of the word. The word schism or schismatic applies to communities, not individuals (although naturally it applies to individuals who are members of those communities).

For example, if a retired bishop were to ordain a new bishop in secrecy (without papal mandate) both of them would be excommunicated; however unless there is an actual community of followers, the situation does not meet the definition of schism. If it is just the two of them in isolation, there’s no schism. If (and only if) one or both attempts to start an entire new community of followers, does the situation meet the definition of schism.