When charity goes too far

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+JMJ+
TEPO said:
Let’s just go back to the original post and forget the example that I gave, it was a bad example…

Do you believe that it’s possible that there are Christians that focus everything on Charity (the end result), while neglecting the other virtues (the building blocks of charity)…?

I believe that this does happen, and it can occur with mature, well seasoned Catholics and Christians who may have forgotten some basic truths. Are there whole cities being built, filled with big beautiful buildings -all without foundations…?
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Of course it is possible. Man has no limits to his self-deception. That is why most saints put more emphasis on humility, the foundation of all virtues, than charity.

Read also the Gospels. The lack of which virtue is Jesus most often angry and frustrated with in his disciples? Yes, faith, the foundation of charity.
 
TEPO said:
Well, Catholic teaching says that Charity/Love is the greatest of all virtues… But this doesn’t mean that it is more “important” than the other virtues. :o If the Church actually did mean that, then why are some of them called cardinal virtues…? Cardinal means: “of prime importance”…

Greatness and Importance are two different things, are they not? So it is fair then, to say that all the Virtues are equally important, while Love is seen as the greatest…?
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It sounds to me like you are trying to either talk yourself into something or be in denial about the position of Charity in Catholic theology because you seem to want the Truth to be something else.

You have the information and you have a life full of choices to make and you’ll be explaining those choices to Jesus at some point.

…Think about it.
 
TEPO said:
Yes, and i agree with JKRH on that… But Let’s just go back to the original post and forget the example that I gave, it was a bad example…

Do you believe that it’s possible that there are Christians that focus everything on Charity (the end result), while neglecting the other virtues (the building blocks of charity)…?

I believe that this does happen, and it can occur with mature, well seasoned Catholics and Christians who may have forgotten some basic truths. Are there whole cities being built, filled with big beautiful buildings -all without foundations…?
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I’m not entirely clear on the meaning you are attaching to “charity” above…
If you are talking about Agape, Godly Love, then I would disagree since I don’t believe that one can properly focus everything on “Charity (Agape)” and ignore the other virtues.

On the other hand, if you are speaking of “charity” in the more limited, modern sense of “donating to a…”, “giving things away” and so forth then yes certainly one can become improperly focused and neglect the other virtues.

Peace
James
 
Julia_Mae said:
It sounds to me like you are trying to either talk yourself into something or be in denial about the position of Charity in Catholic theology because you seem to want the Truth to be something else.

You have the information and you have a life full of choices to make and you’ll be explaining those choices to Jesus at some point.

…Think about it.
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There’s nothing unloving about my position here, I’m actually bursting with love right now. :).

…I just don’t understand why you think I want truth to be something other than what it is. What do you say truth is…?
 
Actually, I’m just going to say it -I might be having a spiritual reawakening right now. I love everyone who has posted here…! :):)🙂
 
TEPO said:
Yes, at what point do we cross the line… Is there even a line?

I personally believe that there is a definant line, and that line lies where the four Cardinal Virtues and the remaining two Theological virtues are overstepped by the Virtue of Love or “charity”. I believe in striving for perfect balance between all seven -and that focusing too heavily on any one of them is neglecting the others… This, I think, is the point where sin begins.

An I right or am I wrong…?
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I think you might be on the wrong track. Jesus says “give to ANYONE who asks, offer the wicked man NO resistance.”

He said “Love one another as I have loved you.” We did not deserve His love- He did not show us “tough love”. Love is simple kindess and generosity, with conditions, and unmerited. You can never have too much of it.

Love is the most important of the virtues, and without it, any other virtue is nothing. But love contains within itself all other virtues.
 
Qoeleth said:
I think you might be on the wrong track. Jesus says “give to ANYONE who asks, offer the wicked man NO resistance.”

He said “Love one another as I have loved you.” We did not deserve His love- He did not show us “tough love”. Love is simple kindess and generosity, with conditions, and unmerited. You can never have too much of it.

Love is the most important of the virtues, and without it, any other virtue is nothing. But love contains within itself all other virtues.
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👍👍

Peace
James
 
TEPO said:
There’s nothing unloving about my position here, I’m actually bursting with love right now. :).

…I just don’t understand why you think I want truth to be something other than what it is. What do you say truth is…?
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It’s in the CCC. I posted it.

Love isn’t something you “burst” with. Love is something you do. When you do it, one name for it is “charity.”
 
Qoeleth said:
I think you might be on the wrong track. Jesus says “give to ANYONE who asks, offer the wicked man NO resistance.”

He said “Love one another as I have loved you.” We did not deserve His love- He did not show us “tough love”. Love is simple kindess and generosity, with conditions, and unmerited. You can never have too much of it.

Love is the most important of the virtues, and without it, any other virtue is nothing. But love contains within itself all other virtues.
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I’m going to have to say that I now believe that to be true… After years of inner conflicts with this, I think I’m now seeing things differently.

I was wrong.
 
Julia_Mae said:
It’s in the CCC. I posted it.

Love isn’t something you “burst” with. Love is something you do. When you do it, one name for it is “charity.”
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No, really -I’m bursting right now with love. 😃

I feel different… I’m loving everybody no matter what. :). If I could give you a hug right now, Julia, I would -that would be “doing” something, right? 🙂

(and that hug would be packed full of honest to goodness love)
 
I now believe that love/charity is the ultimate virtue because it is more like a reward than anything else. I don’t really know how one ‘gets there’ but it is definantly unlike any other single virtue.

It seems more like (as others have pointed out) a combination of all the others packed into one. I see it now.

(I hope this all doesn’t seem absurd in any way…😊. I’m just a very open and honest person trying to find my way. :o. :))
 
TEPO said:
I now believe that love/charity is the ultimate virtue because it is more like a reward than anything else. I don’t really know how one ‘gets there’ but it is definitely unlike any other single virtue.

It seems more like (as others have pointed out) a combination of all the others packed into one. I see it now.

(I hope this all doesn’t seem absurd in any way…😊. I’m just a very open and honest person trying to find my way. :o. :))
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Not absurd at all my friend. God has blessed you with an intimation that can bring you very close to Him indeed.

I know too how difficult it can be to express these things. The Holy Spirit - in less than an instant, can impress on us a new understanding, a deeper Truth, that we could never fully express in human language. Each time we try what comes out just feels so inadequate.

Ultimately - Love is more than what we feel, or what we do…Love is what we aspire to BE…For if we seek Union with God, who John tells us IS Love (1 John 4:7-8) then then we must seek to become “love” ourselves. That is, to make Love the core of our being and how we act and react to things, just because that is “who we are”…
When we understand this perspective, then so many other things fall into place.

Jesus calling us to be perfect as Our heavenly Father is perfect (Mt 5:48) means perfection in Love.
Jesus telling us that whatever we do to the least…we do to Him (Mt 25:31-46)…is one of many places where Jesus tells us that our actions are no more than a reflection of our core being…another example of this is where He speaks of what truly makes one unclean…
Mark 7…
20 And he said, “What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man.”
So - it makes sense that if what defiles us comes from the heart, from our core being (of the fallen man), so too must that which makes us clean and holy come from the heart, from our very core being if we replace our fallen heart with the perfected heart of our God who is Love.

Many more examples can be found in the Gospels…In fact the whole of the Gospels, the Good News, BECOME this expression of God trying to teach us this single lesson…That it is not about “Law” but about “Love”.

Sorry to ramble on so…I hope what I have shared is useful to you…

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Not absurd at all my friend. God has blessed you with an intimation that can bring you very close to Him indeed.

I know too how difficult it can be to express these things. The Holy Spirit - in less than an instant, can impress on us a new understanding, a deeper Truth, that we could never fully express in human language. Each time we try what comes out just feels so inadequate.

Ultimately - Love is more than what we feel, or what we do…Love is what we aspire to BE…For if we seek Union with God, who John tells us IS Love (1 John 4:7-8) then then we must seek to become “love” ourselves. That is, to make Love the core of our being and how we act and react to things, just because that is “who we are”…
When we understand this perspective, then so many other things fall into place.

Jesus calling us to be perfect as Our heavenly Father is perfect (Mt 5:48) means perfection in Love.
Jesus telling us that whatever we do to the least…we do to Him (Mt 25:31-46)…is one of many places where Jesus tells us that our actions are no more than a reflection of our core being…another example of this is where He speaks of what truly makes one unclean…
Mark 7…
20 And he said, “What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man.”
So - it makes sense that if what defiles us comes from the heart, from our core being (of the fallen man), so too must that which makes us clean and holy come from the heart, from our very core being if we replace our fallen heart with the perfected heart of our God who is Love.

Many more examples can be found in the Gospels…In fact the whole of the Gospels, the Good News, BECOME this expression of God trying to teach us this single lesson…That it is not about “Law” but about “Love”.

Sorry to ramble on so…I hope what I have shared is useful to you…

Peace
James
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Very true, and very relevant to me personally… Say, you’re pretty good at this…! :

Now I just need to get that book from your signature. I’ve been thinking about it for a long time now.😃
 
No, of course charity has no limits. Charity is love. God is love, and God has no limits. There are no limits to the charity God offers us, and we should not limit the charity we offer others. Now you might be stymied by thinking that charity takes only certain forms, such as being nicey-nice. That’s not charity, though in some situations it can be an expression of charity. But we are commanded to love even our enemies, and Jesus gives us no qualifier or “out” on that commandment.
 
The gospels teach us that Christ commands a balance between trusting charity and canny stewardship. The Christian life means living out the tension between the two, and I think that this is the hardest part of the Christian life, way harder than the moral commands about sexuality, for example. Each situation should be approached prayerfully and with wisdom.
 
nuntym said:
Second off, remember what “neighbor” means: those who are close to you. Your wife is supposed to be closer to you than the homeless person, but you loved the homeless person more than her. Do you still think that’s charity?
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I have never ever heard that. When Christ was asked “Who is my neighbor?” He told the story of the Good Samaritan. The Good Samaritan was not close to the victim of the robbers in any way, but he is our prototypical example of a neighbor.
 
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