When Christ turned water into wine & Drunkeness

[At_His_Feet_1]

*2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.**

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”**

As with any celebrations today or in the past, people tend to go ‘overboard’ with celebrating.

We were taught that Liars, Thieves, and Drunkards etc. would not be able to enter into the kingdom of God.

Was it not St. Paul that said (paraphrasing) “Everything…in moderation.”

Now according to the scripture I gave above, my question is, “Why would Christ advocate(?) ‘more drinking’; as his ‘first’ miracle”? He knew that the wine was already GONE at the beginning of the wedding feast, and yet he made more?*

 

[fatima12]

2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.**

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”**

As with any celebrations today or in the past, people tend to go ‘overboard’ with celebrating.

We were taught that Liars, Thieves, and Drunkards etc. would not be able to enter into the kingdom of God.

Was it not St. Paul that said (paraphrasing) “Everything…in moderation.”

Now according to the scripture I gave above, my question is, “Why would Christ advocate(?) ‘more drinking’; as his ‘first’ miracle”? He knew that the wine was already GONE at the beginning of the wedding feast, and yet he made more?

The miracle was used to convey a message: The wine was a metaphor of His Holy Blood, as in Holy Communion…and the fact that the best wine is brought out at the last and not as usually happens. The guests are usually cheated in a way and the cheap wine is brought out when they are too drunk to notice. But not with Christ, not with His Life, not with His Teachings, all is the exquisite (sp) up to the very end, and the best is offered at the end in the Resurrection, to everyone.even those that do not appreciate the greatness of it all, and the wonderful gift given, because too “drunk” on other things.

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

The miracle was used to convey a message: The wine was a metaphor of His Holy Blood, as in Holy Communion…and the fact that the best wine is brought out at the last and not as usually happens. The guests are usually cheated in a way and the cheap wine is brought out when they are too drunk to notice. But not with Christ, not with His Life, not with His teachings, all is the exquisite (sp) up to the very end, and the best if offered at the end in the Resurrection, to everyone.even those that do not appreciate the greatness of it all, and the wonderful gift given, because too “drunk” on other things.

I understand that, and was waiting for someone to bring that aspect up, Thank you! However, as this miracle is part of the ‘Luminous’ mysteries on our Rosary, I often ask myself, why our Lord would perform that particular miracle?

Christ often spoke in parables throughout the New Testament, but when he presented miracles, there was no need of a Rosetta stone to diferentiate by. It was…what is was.

 

[Regina_Love]

Back in his day, there was no way to notify people of upcoming events, other than word of mouth. Sometimes a wedding didn’t have a set date. When the groom arrived in town, it just took place then. The feast could go on for weeks! As people arrived from out of town, they shared in the celebration. Now, knowing Jesus, do you think he arrived solo to spend a week with them? His entourage probably included; the 12 diciples, Mary’s friends, and numerous followers. They probably arrived empty handed, as far as gifts go, because they were travelers. While people may bring food to share, The wedding family supplied the wine. It was a huge shame, and a scandle to run out of wine, in their culture. They either were poor, or unprepared for the large numbers of guests who showed up.

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

There are some who I’ve talked with, and use that particular incident in the bible to polarize with their drinking habits and such.

They would say things as, “If Christ never intended us to ‘enjoy’ the drink, then why would He go out of His way to ‘make more’ at the wedding, and if it was only symbollic, then why not use another miracle instead?”

**I’m in no way advocating others to drink (excessively or otherwise) because of this, and I do not ‘suppose’ for our Lord.
**

 

[MichaelHowling]

It was not just symbolic (however, all miracles are done to point to Him and to reveal His goodness.). It was also practicle. The fact they ran out of wine would have ruined the party and brought dishonor to the married couple.

Lol, and who said Christ didn’t drink some wine ?

 

[agnes_therese]

I wonder why the use of “drunkeness” in the thread title? Since there is no mention of drunkeness in the Gospel account, the OP seems to be making an assumption that isn’t supported by the evidence.

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

While people may bring food to share, The wedding family supplied the wine. It was a huge shame, and a scandle to run out of wine, in their culture. They either were poor, or unprepared for the large numbers of guests who showed up.

Either that was a very HUGE wedding in that area at the time, or an average-to-small one.

I can just imagine our Lord and His diciples preaching from town to town, and maybe ‘happening’ upon someones wedding at the time. Or was he originally invited? We’ve all heard of ‘wedding crashers’, If that were the case, that would have to be the ULTIMATE wedding crasher indeed!!

I’m trying to picture how our Mother was reacting to all this?

 

[Bookcat]

It is important to note:

The text does not say that anyone was drunk -but rather that the wine had run out.

Such can happen due to more guests showing up than expected or not saving up enough wine due to lack of funds etc.

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

I wonder why the use of “drunkeness” in the thread title? Since there is no mention of drunkeness in the Gospel account, the OP seems to be making an assumption that isn’t supported by the evidence.

I only mentioned that because of the fact that Christ had turned water into wine - after all the previous wine was consumed - and he had to make more.

As was previously discussed, it depended on the size of the wedding party involved, as well as Christ and his followers attending said event.

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

It is important to note:

The text does not say that anyone was drunk -but rather that the wine had run out.

Such can happen due to **more guests showing up **than expected or not saving up enough wine due to lack of funds etc.

That’s what I was wondering.

 

[fatima12]

I understand that, and was waiting for someone to bring that aspect up, Thank you! However, as this miracle is part of the ‘Luminous’ mysteries on our Rosary, I often ask myself, why our Lord would perform that particular miracle?

Christ often spoke in parables throughout the New Testament, but when he presented miracles, there was no need of a Rosetta stone to diferentiate by. It was…what is was.

And lets not forget also the other important part of the message. The Blessed Mother asked Him to. He replied it wasn´t His Time yet (paraphrasing) yet because She asked He performed the Miracle.

The power and importance of the intercession of the Holy Blessed Mother, because She asked He performed the Miracle.

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

Lol, and who said Christ didn’t drink some wine ?

I’d imagine He did at the time, but He did say that he wouldn’t partake of the vine again, until he came again in Glory.

 

[At_His_Feet_1]

And lets not forget also the other important part of the message. The Blessed Mother asked Him to. He replied it wasn´t His Time yet (paraphrasing) yet because She asked He performed the Miracle.

The power and importance of the intercession of the Holy Blessed Mother, because She asked He performed the Miracle.

THIS is most important.

Thank you Fatima!

 

[fatima12]

THIS is most important.

Thank you Fatima!

My pleasure

Let´s remind those that tell us that the Blessed Mother should not be prayed to.

Nothing in Christs life was coincidence, every event, happening , miracle etc… was to convey a message, give a teaching and so on. And here we are shown clearly the power of Her Intercession. She didnt ask for a blind person to see for example, She asked for what many could interpret as a minor request, His reply that it was not His time yet could have been acceptable, after all it was only an issue of wine at a wedding…yet because She asked Him, because He loves Her He performed the miracle, to please Her.

 

[R_C]

You don’t seem to understand: it was a wedding feast. The only thing to drink was wine. Nothing else to drink meant end of the feast - a very special feast for the spouses, given the time and society - and shame on the spouse, and sadness for the bride.

That’s without even speaking of the mystical meanings of water and wine.

 

[CarolNoel]

Interesing thread. Learned something I did not think about before, but now if it comes up with some of my non Catholic friends I can have a coherent answer.

 

[Steveabrous]

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.**

---

6 jars 20-30 gallons each turned into wine. I would say it was a huge wedding. Back then people didn’t have a lot of recreation activities. A wedding meant a chance to relax and have fun so lots of people would go.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

As a home brewer I can tell you that fermenting grapes alone will not provide a very intoxicating wine.

It’s that added sugar added to today’s wine that converts into a higher than normal alcohol content.

Most ancient table wines were the equivalent of 3.2 beer and beer drinkers will testify that you really have to over indulge to get intoxicated…and you are more likely to get sick before getting intoxicated.

Table wines are what the salt of the earth folks drank.

 

[mommy_k]

In addtion to the amazing replies that gave me much to ponder-
Water back then was murky and wine making purified It. Perhaps the better wine was more sanitary. I do not believe Our Lord condoned drunkenness.
Just a thought.