When confession habits becomes less than virtuous

[Lux_et_veritas]

I’ve been pondering more about confession habits. Lets compare these scenarios for discussion. I want to see if anyone comes up with similar thoughts that I have (I’ll share later).

• A person goes to different confessors because they are just willing to go to any priest that is available at a time and place.
• A person who goes to different confessors to prevent the priest from detecting a pattern of habit.
• A person uses different confessors for different types of sin.

Now, just to clear things up - I’ve done all three and have evaluated my own reasons for doing these things. That is what I will share later once the thread gets rolling.

Do you see virtue problems (venial sins) in any of these and if so, what are they?

Is there anything grave in any of these - if so, what would you call it or categorize it under?

Open for discussion - lets see what we learn.

Feel free to add any other subtle or not-so-subtle confession habits that strike you, in yourself or others, for discussion along the same lines.

Mea Culpa! :banghead:

Actus Contritionis
Deus meus, ex toto corde poenitet me omnium meorum peccatorum, eaque detestor, quia peccando, non solum poenas a Te iuste statutas promeritus sum, sed praesertim quia offendi Te, summum bonum, ac dignum qui super omnia diligaris. Ideo firmiter propono, adiuvante gratia Tua, de cetero me non peccaturum peccandique occasiones proximas fugiturum. Amen.

 

[mercygate]

Lux_et_veritas:

I’ve been pondering more about confession habits. Lets compare these two scenarios for discussion. I want to see if anyone comes up with similar thoughts that I have (I’ll share later).

• A person goes to different confessors because they are just willing to go to any priest that is available at a time and place.
• A person who goes to different confessors to prevent the priest from detecting a pattern of habit.
• A person uses different confessors for different types of sin.

Now, just to clear things up - I’ve done all three and have evaluated my own reasons for doing these things.

Do you see virtue problems (venial sins) in any of these and if so, what are they?

Is there anything grave in any of these - if so, what would you call it or categorize it under?

Open for discussion - lets see what we learn.

Feel free to add any other subtle or not-so-subtle confession habits that strike you, in yourself or others, for discussion along the same lines.

Mea Culpa! :banghead:

Actus Contritionis
Deus meus, ex toto corde poenitet me omnium meorum peccatorum, eaque detestor, quia peccando, non solum poenas a Te iuste statutas promeritus sum, sed praesertim quia offendi Te, summum bonum, ac dignum qui super omnia diligaris. Ideo firmiter propono, adiuvante gratia Tua, de cetero me non peccaturum peccandique occasiones proximas fugiturum. Amen.

Lux, the fact that you ask the question shows that the Holy Spirit is onto you, and that you are onto yourself, and that you are seeking growth in authenticity and integrity. That’s grace! GO with it: find ONE confessor, whom you trust, and stick with him.

I would think that at AG you won’t have much difficulty!

God bless you.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

mercygate:

Lux, the fact that you ask the question shows that the Holy Spirit is onto you, and that you are onto yourself, and that you are seeking growth in authenticity and integrity. That’s grace! GO with it: find ONE confessor, whom you trust, and stick with him.

I would think that at AG you won’t have much difficulty!

God bless you.

I not only asked the question and pondered it deeply - I confessed weeks ago for having done these things (hint, hint as to whether there are less than virtuous issues involved).

Anyone up to naming the virtues violated and/or sins committed.

 

[RSiscoe]

Lux_et_veritas:

I’ve been pondering more about confession habits. Lets compare these scenarios for discussion. I want to see if anyone comes up with similar thoughts that I have (I’ll share later).

• A person goes to different confessors because they are just willing to go to any priest that is available at a time and place.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. In fact, that is what I do. Ideally, we should have one main confessor, but we need to make sure it is a good confessor, and today that is not easy. If we can find a really good confessor, I think we should try to go to them excusively. I haven’t had a main confessor in a few years. I would love to have one, but the one I used to go to moved away and I haven’t found another good ones since. It is good to have a regular confessor (if they are good), because they become very familiar with our nature and habits and are thereby able to direct us better.

• A person who goes to different confessors to prevent the priest from detecting a pattern of habit.

That is not good. That would seem to be a sign of pride. We don’t want our confessor to think we are “that bad” so we try not to let him know that we are stuggling with the same sin. That is not good. If we have a primary confessor, he needs to know what we are struggling with so he can help us. We are allowed to confess to whoever we want, but if we are “hiding” sins from our main confessor so he will think we are better than we are, it is not good.
A person uses different confessors for different types of sin.

Well, if the reason is because one confessor gives better advice on how to deal a particular sin, it may be OK; but if we are doing it to hide a bad sin from one confessor, I don’t think it is good.

God Bless

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

Case A: I don’t see any problem with this. At my church, a different priest hears confessions each week, and there is nothing wrong with going to that regularly available confession instead of making an appointment with any particular priest.

Case B: I agree with RSiscoe that this is a symptom of pride. For further discussion, I will turn to St. John of the Cross.

Of certain spiritual imperfections which beginners have with respect to the habit of pride.

AS these beginners feel themselves to be very fervent and diligent in spiritual things and devout exercises, from this prosperity (although it is true that holy things of their own nature cause humility) there often comes to them, through their imperfections, a certain kind of secret pride, whence they come to have some degree of satisfaction with their works and with themselves…Many such persons desire to be the favourites of their confessors and to become intimate with them, as a result of which there beset them continual occasions of envy and disquiet. They are too much embarrassed to confess their sins nakedly, lest their confessors should think less of them, so they palliate them and make them appear less evil, and thus it is to excuse themselves rather than to accuse themselves that they go to confession. And sometimes they seek another confessor to tell the wrongs that they have done, so that their own confessor shall think they have done nothing wrong at all, but only good; and thus they always take pleasure in telling him what is good, and sometimes in such terms as make it appear to be greater than it is rather than less, desiring that he may think them to be good, when it would be greater humility in them, as we shall say, to depreciate it, and to desire that neither he nor anyone else should consider them of account.

Case C: If you are going to confess a sin to a certain confessor because you feel that a certain priest would better be able to help you overcome a particular sin, that would not be a sin. If, however, you confess certain sins to certain confessors because of another thing St. John discusses in the same section, choosing certain confessors because of how you believe they would see you based on a certain sin, it would be a problem.

Sometimes, too, when their spiritual masters, such as confessors and superiors, do not approve of their spirit and behavior…they immediately desire and contrive to find some one else who will fit in with their tastes; for as a rule they desire to speak of spiritual matters with those who they think will praise and esteem what they do, and they flee, as they would from death, from those who disabuse them in order to lead them into a safe road.

It sounds like you are really trying to grow spiritually and to recognize areas in need of improvement. Thanks for sharing this with us, because I know that I struggle with the sin of pride, and your honesty helps me.

 

[JimG]

I go to my parish church for confession at the appointed times, either on a weekday afternoon before Mass, or on Saturday. I go to whichever priest is hearing confessions at the time.

In the past I used to avoid priests I knew too well, but no more. It is just silly. A priest is a priest. He is acting for Christ to forgive sins.

I don’t go particularly for counseling, or spiritual advice, or therapy. I just want to have my sins forgiven.

Sometimes, it seems to me, Catholics get way to obsessive about confession.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Well, you both pretty much nailed it. The link to St. John of the Cross writings was also very good to add into the discussion.

A month ago I first realized that I had spent 15 years confessing the same sins so well, that I was able to simply ramble them off quickly like a professional. In fact, I was proud of my 2-minutes or less confessions. But, it made me think and recognize - I had made no progress at all. Not only that, but I recognized that I was simply going to confession so I could go to communion.

:banghead:

I too see nothing wrong with the first case and it is perfectly acceptable to confess to different confessors for such a reason.

But, I think it is a mistake, if not sinful itself, to seek out differing confessors as I stated in the next two examples. In myself, I now see that I tried to “fool a Father”, but recognize I can’t fool the Holy Spirit, and in the end fooled myself with zero change all those years. In a way, I think it was darn close to sinning against the Holy Spirit, if not truly sinful against Him.

No one can know what is in the heart of another person, but he or she themselves, so each individual has to dig deep, with humility and ask themselves about their confession habits. That was the point of my post and hopefully it can help someone out of their repeatability.

I use to exercise the “Find a Father who will go easy on me” too, as well as the “Go to confession when Father won’t have time to ask too many questions”.

I dumped all of this right on the priest’s desk when I went in for my first ever face to face telling him God wanted me to stop making a mockery of the Sacrament of Penance.

That was nearly four weeks ago and after all these weeks I’m still learning the value of making the change. Trust me, after I dragged my biggest skeleton out and placed it on his desk, there is nothing I can’t tell him now. That’s the best benefit of all. Now, my confessions are different each time, not the same.

 

[contemplative]

I hear you.
I have been trying to work out the sacrament of reconcilliation the past few years. Any effort I make is good. You should feel that way about yourself too. What is important is that ultimately we comb through ourselves while asking God to give us the grace to love Him more. Who we see isn’t as important as being honest with ourselves and God. We can hide just as much seeing the same confessor month after month. We can confess all we need to a different priest each week of the year. A simple honest heartfelt confession is all that matters.
I think.

 

[Primitive]

I think that it is often I go to confession just to go to Communion as well.
This is a pretty useful thread for me, so thanks.
I can see perhaps where I was/am going astray.

I do have a question of my own, something that you may have run into:
I have gotten to the point where I feel like a repeat offender and that my confessions are worthless to me in a way. I understand there is the grace of absolution which has infinite worth, but by “worthless” I mean that I am making them petty and not really getting anything else out of them. Often my mind does not differentiate between temptation and sin and I can not even correctly do a competent examination of conscience. I usually just throw random problems together that I have and confess sins as they pop into my head and hope I hit what I should.
I started attending a new parish several months ago and I don’t think the priest really knows me very well. So here is the question…Would it be in my best interest morally and strategicaly to go to my regular confession, but sort of “tap out” and tell the priest that I have these few sins, but I feel there is a greater problem here…then recieve absolution, but schedule time to talk to him a little more involved whe he doesn’t have other people lined up at the confessional?

 

[surfinpure]

I happily admit that I go to whichever confessor is there when I’m able to go. I have such a restricted schedule that I’m just thrilled to be able to get to confession and keep my toddler quiet while I confess! Also, the parish I attend for confession rotates priests through the confessional all week, so you never know whom you’re going to get. I tend to like it this way, actually. I don’t picture any particular priest’s expression when I name some dreadful sin I’ve committed. LOL

I would prefer to be able to go to the same priest week after week – especially if it could be the priest at my parish – but it’s just not likely to happen in my situation. This works out fine, though.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Primitive:

I think that it is often I go to confession just to go to Communion as well…
I have gotten to the point where I feel like a repeat offender and that my confessions are worthless to me in a way…

Often my mind does not differentiate between temptation and sin and I can not even correctly do a competent examination of conscience. I usually just throw random problems together that I have and confess sins as they pop into my head and hope I hit what I should…

Would it be in my best interest morally and strategicaly to go to my regular confession, but sort of “tap out” and tell the priest that I have these few sins, but I feel there is a greater problem here…then recieve absolution, but schedule time to talk to him a little more involved whe he doesn’t have other people lined up at the confessional?

You sound like my confession companion because this what I went through right after I had my last 2-minute drill confession the day Pope John Paul II died. And, that came after 2 years of avoiding confession because I wondered why I was bothering. The greatest grace of all was recognizing the poison of that attitude alone and it too had to be confessed. Obviously, the Lord is tapping on your door with a similar grace right now.

I too tried to figure out how to make it happen. I felt a need for a lengthy discussion with confession rolled in so I was willing to make an appointment. I also felt deep within my heart that after making such a mockery of the Sacrament of Penance through prideful actions, God was calling me to make an act of humility. That act of humility was to come out from behind the screen and look the priest directly in the eyes as the closet was emptied. I’m glad to say that the priest I chose to be my confessor obliged and never looked down as I spoke to him that first time. He does now that he knows me when I am face to face, while closing his eyes. He basically put the stole on for the duration of that conversation which was dialogue and confession all in one.

You need to find someone you trust to challenge you. As I told the priest when I sat down, I don’t need my guilt mitigated away because then I have no reason to work harder. That is when I told him I needed a father and not a friend. Friends will let friends drive drunk and that is why we need commericials as reminders. A good father will not let that happen. Then you call him, and explain you want a discussion of either 30 minutes or an hour with confession rolled right in. They often have a stole in their office.

I told him I had a long standing habit that seemed to be the driver bringing me into confession each time. I told him that I hopped around to avoid any one priest detecting a habit. After all, such a priest might actually challenge me.

Before I told him about the habit, I told him I had done a deep dive and identified many troubling attitudes that God was telling me needed to change. I listed them as “Winds of Doctrine” (in honor of Pope Benedict of course). Here are just a few of what I call, "The Broken Compass Doctrines"

The “I can bend my compass needle in any direction and call it North” Doctrine. (aka - The Relativism Doctrine)

The “Everyone Else is Doing it” Doctrine

The “All the good things I do will mitigate the bad” Doctrine

The “I can bend my compass needle in any direction and call it North” Doctrine

The “Don’t Ask Father if it is a sin because I might find out it is” Doctrine

The “I already have to go to confession again, so why stop sinning now” Doctrine

These were just a few of the 10 Broken Compass Doctrines I had written down and told him I was guilty of.

Then I shared the 8 Doctrines of Confession Avoidance and Less Than Virtuous Confession Habits, some of which are listed above and I’ll add two more.

The “I’ll go to confession next week” Doctrine (still pending 2 years later)

The “It’s hopeless, so why bother” Doctrine

That last one is a very bad sign as hopelessness and despair are seeds of the devil and he hopes they sprout into the rejection of God’s love. Time to run, not walk to the first confessor you can find if this is happening.

I’ll continue in the next thread…

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Couldn’t edit out some technical errors above, but you get the gist.

Continuing on…

The Broken Compass Doctrines, lead to the Bad Confession Doctrines, which then has potential to lead to the Sacrilege Doctrines, or plainly put, the sinful reception of Holy Communion.

I grew indifferent, but then again one look at confession lines in many of the parishes I attended, I can safely say either I’m was in a parish with saints, or lots of people are doing this. Of all the Catholics I know, most do not go to confession at all. (Goes with the Everyone Else is Doing it - or not doing it Doctrine).

Some of the 7 Sacrilege Doctrines I listed

The “I might look like a sinner to everyone if I don’t go up for communion” (even though I am a sinner)

The “It’s ok, Jesus understands my weakness” Doctrine

The “Please God, don’t send me to hell for receiving communion when I need it most” Doctrine

When I told the priest that God was fed up with me and told me that I not only had to confess the obvious sins, but that he wanted me to confess the attitudes that led to them, these are what I brought up and told Father I was guilty of every statement on the list.

Temptation and Sin

God helped me to understand temptation much better in order for me to have a good confession too. He helped me to discover a model that would enable me to deal with temptation and it worked. The confessor becomes part of that plan. Here is the model:

LADDER OF TEMPTATION

I told Father that I recognize temptation as a ladder. I often start out at the lowest rung. Sometimes I land there through no fault of my own - it just happens. Other times, I see that I put myself into a situation for temptation to happen. When I recognize what caused me to land on the ladder of temptation I need to eliminate that thing (TV program, environment, or even hanging out with a group of friends). Remember the reading, “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off”??? Hello! This is what I connected to it.

I explained that I felt God was telling me to not only confess the sins, and the attitudes, but to tell him how I landed on the Ladder of Temptation when I knew it wasn’t by accident. And, I needed to tell him how high up the ladder I went before falling. There are two reasons for this.

1. It goes to how hard we fight. If I fall only half-way up the ladder, then I only put in a half hearted effort in stopping myself from falling. It’s a different story to fall when at the top rung, than to fall at a lower rung. But that raises another issue…
2. If I go any higher than the first rung, then I need to recognize that I dwelled too long on whatever it was to enable me to go up higher.

I told him that next time I come in for the same sin, whatever it is, God wanted me to tell him how high up the ladder I was when I fell, and he wanted me to identify for him, that one moment that He gave me to say “no” and step down. I explained to Father that each and every time I fell, I could see that I had at least one opportunity to turn away from sin, but didn’t. I felt God was telling me I needed to tell him about that moment.

This has worked for me. It finally stopped the cycles I was in. It was also a great deterrent to know I not only had to face the same man, but gave him all that he needed to challenge me should I come back with the same list again.

I’m planning on writing a pamphlet with the Ladder of Temptation (which I have a de facto copyright to), and I hope to have it include a worksheet to help groups of people or individuals discover their attitudes. I’ve been using these boards to test my theories on whether it can be helpful to others.

 

[Fergal]

1. Moving from Priest to Priest or from town to town for Confession for whatever reason is an exercise in vanity on behalf of the penitent.
2. Christ is present in the Confessional no matter what priest or what city. You simply cannot hide from Him.
3. Putting shame of discovery by the Priest above the heartfelt desire to meet Christ in the Confessional is a very serious mistake indeed and would have me ask why one is not giving more thought to this wonderful Sacrament.

Don’t worry I am not being self righteous. I have done the same in the past. Now I only have one Confessor.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

1. Moving from Priest to Priest or from town to town for Confession for whatever reason is an exercise in vanity on behalf of the penitent.
2. Christ is present in the Confessional no matter what priest or what city. You simply cannot hide from Him.
3. Putting shame of discovery by the Priest above the heartfelt desire to meet Christ in the Confessional is a very serious mistake indeed and would have me ask why one is not giving more thought to this wonderful Sacrament.

Don’t worry I am not being self righteous. I have done the same in the past. Now I only have one Confessor.

Exactly! And, another excellent way of describing the built-in virtue issues associated with it and how it is countered.

Within all of the many attitudes I listed, there is a sinful action - be it venial or grave. This is why it is important to discuss attitudes.

There is something with acknowledging that is so critical to driving inner change and I think this is one more reason why Christ gave us this most wonderful Sacrament of Penance.

Thanks!

 

[mercygate]

Lux_et_veritas:

Couldn’t edit out some technical errors above, but you get the gist.

Continuing on…

The Broken Compass Doctrines, lead to the Bad Confession Doctrines, which then has potential to lead to the Sacrilege Doctrines, or plainly put, the sinful reception of Holy Communion.

I grew indifferent, but then again one look at confession lines in many of the parishes I attended, I can safely say either I’m was in a parish with saints, or lots of people are doing this. Of all the Catholics I know, most do not go to confession at all. (Goes with the Everyone Else is Doing it - or not doing it Doctrine).

Man! The Holy Spirit has YOU by the nape of the neck! I’m supposed to go to confession today but haven’t heard from my confessor, who may be away . . . Anyway – after reading THIS, I’m ashamed to go. You are being EXCAVATED! Thank God for this extraordinary grace.

Got any to share?

Is Fr. Perrone your confessor?

 

[baltobetsy]

Diane, you certainly have been given a lot of grace to improve your confessions and speed up your spiritual growth. And congratulations on responding to this grace in such a generous way!

Because many people will read this discussion who have not reached the same place in their spiritual development, I think it’s important to boil this whole thing down to its bare essentials.

What is required when we commit serious sin is to be sorry (and because God knows us so well and loves us so much and wants us to be with Him, this includes imperfect contrition which refers only to fear of His punishments), to have a firm purpose of not sinning again, and to go to Confession. There’s no actual general requirement to understand one’s motives as well as you do, and to make the act of humility that you have. It is VERY good to do so, but not strictly necessary.

What your self-analysis reveals is a lack of purpose of amendment. You priest-hopped because you did not want someone to hold you accountable for trying to stop your sinful habits. It is possible, however, to have a genuine purpose of amendment without going repeatedly to the same confessor. There is certainly more help available to you if you do what you did, but the forgiveness is not contingent upon doing so.

Clearly, Diane, God was calling YOU to this type of conversion, as I am sure he is calling many others. Your advice is extremely valuable to those similarly called. But in other, less experienced souls, He may just want to get His foot in the door, and call them to deeper conversion later, as He did with you. We must be careful not to generalize our own experience, assuming it applies to everyone. It’s kind of like private vs. public revelation. We’re all obliged to believe public revelation (which ended with the last Apostle), but private revelation only binds the one who receives it, although all are free to believe.

So to anyone reading these posts, if all you can manage is to go anonymously and confess your serious sins, and you are sorry in some way that refers to God (and that includes fear), and you really intend not to commit the sins again, you are just fine. Go and be forgiven! There will be much rejoicing in heaven!

Betsy

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

baltobetsy:

So to anyone reading these posts, if all you can manage is to go anonymously and confess your serious sins, and you are sorry in some way that refers to God (and that includes fear), and you really intend not to commit the sins again, you are just fine. Go and be forgiven! There will be much rejoicing in heaven!

Betsy

I’m very glad you brought this up because I wouldn’t want to inadvertently lead anyone into thinking that the method I used was a requirement.

You are 100% correct that even fear of punishment as a motivator is good and all that is required. Hopefully, people will go in order to confess what is in their hearts at a given moment.

I had to confess what was in mine at a given moment, and then felt compelled to share it in a way that would have others looking inward, if like me, they had stalled for a long period of time.

Thanks again for pointing it out, and with such charity and grace!

 

[Primitive]

Lux_et_veritas

I tried to send you a private message, but it appears that your quota has been filled to the max!

I will have to try again later…

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Primitive:

Lux_et_veritas

I tried to send you a private message, but it appears that your quota has been filled to the max!

I will have to try again later…

All fixed now

I just had to dump a bunch! I happened to be in my regular email and the message popped in.