When did children become an inconveniece?

[Rach620]

One of the most-used phrases in this thread (on all the NFP threads, actually) is “prayerfully discern”…I am just genuinely curious as to what this means, exactly. What does it mean, and how does a couple do it? And having done it, how does a couple know that what they have “prayerfully discerned” is the right thing to do?

From talking to my husband about it, the closest thing I can come to is it’s a more modern version of following one’s conscience. Any thoughts on that? (agree/disagree…?)

I think discernment is a continuous process, for all of us, in most areas of our lives. Discernment involves reflecting on what we have done in the past, what we are doing now, and what direction we see life is taking us (at least that’s how it works for DH and I…we’re always talking about the recent past, current events, and our short-term and long-term future plans). And to say that discernment is prayerful means that it’s rooted in an active spiritual life–you can’t hear God’s voice if you’re not listening for it at Mass and in personal prayer. As a married couple, we prayerfully discern regarding avoiding or achieving pregnancy together…It might look different for other married couples, but that’s how it works for us.

I don’t really understand what you mean about the “more modern version of following one’s conscience”…? First of all, the Church doesn’t really have a problem with following one’s properly formed conscience…but even then, I think that this is beside the point, as I don’t think “conscience” is relevant to vocational discernment, as it generally refers to moral decision-making. Discerning family size (or whether one is called to marriage and family life at all) does not pertain to moral decision-making.

What I’ve been talking about is a particular kind of discernment. I guess I don’t know how else to explain it than that…I don’t think “discernment” is at all a modern concept; it’s the process of seeking to understand God’s will for our lives and how we ought to conform our way of living to it. How else does one determine if their “plan” has been conformed and is conformed to God’s plan? How can I submit my will to God’s will if I don’t stop and ask, in prayer, what God’s will is, or if I don’t step back and look at what ideas and expectations I have about my own life and my own motivations?

I would say every person needs to cultivate a spirit of prayerful discernment…in every area of their lives, every day. It’s as simple as asking “Am I doing God’s will, right now?” If we don’t do that, how can we say we are followers of Christ…?

 

[Monte_RCMS]

When people began to overanalyze what it takes to be a parent.

Micromanagement.

Overthinking.

Desire that every little picky detail must be perfect: color of baby clothing, coordination of accessories, baby’s college entrance exam coach selection.

New parents get hammered into the ground with irrelevant details. Heck, it happens even before they get married.

“Well, WHAT ABOUT THIS? WHAT ABOUT THAT? MUST HAVE ANSWERS!!!”
One pastor used to say, “God will provide.”

As in, Relax, God is in charge.

He did amazing work.

But the Type A people under cut him all the time.

 

[Califman831]

Ok first let me say that I’m single. I chose not to have children without being married and now it’s more than likely I will never have any but still I have to say I find all these threads about NFP troubling. It’s like everyone is out to do what they can to avoid children. I’m not for having 15 or 20 like the Duggars but whatever happened to the families of 5 or six kids. It’s like three became the norm and now only one or two is?? Just looking for thoughts on this. Do you think we’ve all lost focus on more important things?

Our society has made it less and less economically and socially prudent to have such large families.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Our society has made it less and less economically and socially prudent to have such large families.

Vote for politicians or political parties that cut taxes for families.

 

[AnotherChance]

Ok first let me say that I’m single. I chose not to have children without being married and now it’s more than likely I will never have any but still I have to say I find all these threads about NFP troubling. It’s like everyone is out to do what they can to avoid children. I’m not for having 15 or 20 like the Duggars but whatever happened to the families of 5 or six kids. It’s like three became the norm and now only one or two is?? Just looking for thoughts on this. Do you think we’ve all lost focus on more important things?

OP, You are so right! Now that we have four kids, I notice this attitude more. Also, I am even more convinced that children are indeed blessings. Plus, there are so many difficulties that are solved by God’s plan for families. For example, I was listening to Dr. Laura the other day. A husband called in and was complaining about his wife breastfeeding and generally babying their two-and-a-half year old. Now, I don’t care if people practice extended breastfeeding or not. But the first thing that came to mind was that she was statistically likely to be contracepting. I believe the natural infertility from breastfeeding rarely lasts more than a year. If the next baby came along, she could stop babying the preschooler. I know that I would still be babying my teenager if I hadn’t had three more babies since then to focus on!

 

[peregrinator_it]

One of the most-used phrases in this thread (on all the NFP threads, actually) is “prayerfully discern”…I am just genuinely curious as to what this means, exactly. What does it mean, and how does a couple do it? And having done it, how does a couple know that what they have “prayerfully discerned” is the right thing to do?

From talking to my husband about it, the closest thing I can come to is it’s a more modern version of following one’s conscience. Any thoughts on that? (agree/disagree…?)

I’ve read the whole thread, but not very thoroughly, so forgive me if I’m re-covering old ground. I have been thinking about prudence and generosity a lot because I’ve been participating in another NFP/child-bearing related thread and I was anxious to reply, not because any thing on the thread has provoked me, but because I feel a need to muse “out loud” about these things.

I think Rach (somewhere a bit further on; I’m feeling lazy about going back and finding the quote) has hit the nail on the head that “prayerfully discerning” just means being alert/attentive to making sure your life is aimed at fulfilling God’s will for you. That feels like a tall order to me most of the time, because I often just don’t think God is clear enough! The only way I can personally approach discernment is prayer. Lots and lots of prayer and patience and talking to people who I feel are trying to fulfill God’s will for them and showing the fruits of that effort. And who have common sense! (Because, I personally don’t sometimes.)

When it comes to the NFP/child-bearing issues, I see one’s task as needing to balance prudence and generosity. (For quick background, I’m the oldest of seven living children, my experience with NFP has been overwhelmingly positive because it has helped me solve medical issues; it was not presented to me as a requirement for all couples or as a tool mainly for avoiding pregnancy.)

From my perspective having a fixed number of children in mind (either high or low) is silly. God is the Creator, not me, and ultimately, life is in His hands. I think deciding to actively pursue having a child (while accepting that God might have other plans for you) or to avoid (while accepting that God might have other plans for you) is has to be a case-by-case, month-by-month decision.

I’m the sort of person who (more frequently than I really care to admit) bites off more than she can chew. One of the things that I believe God has taught me (particularly through my years of teaching) is, unless you’re St. Bridget (and I am not) you cannot give what you have not got.

Every human person deserves the basics needed to grow up as healthy and holy as possible. (These don’t, IMO, include a whole lot of material comforts. I think what’s really needed is a balanced life and joyful parents.) The way I see it, if I were, as a parent, have bitten off so much that I can’t provide these basics, then I need to evaluate and ask myself am I doing things that I don’t need to that are interfering with my ability to provide for a child? Or is it simply a case that I am over-extended without indulging in unnecessary activities (or attitudes)? And what about my spouse? What is my spouse’s discernment of the situation? Does he seem something that I am not seeing? Am I doing justice towards him? And even, then, I know I personally would be inclined to question if my “prudence” was really fear… but I think that prudence is a virtue and it is important to try and act based on humility and that includes acknowledging one’s own weaknesses and limitations.

In the end, for me, the only answer is prayer. Prayer for prudence, prayer for generosity, prayer to supplement the things I lack (especially when I find I’ve put myself in a place of giving what I haven’t got) and if need be, talking to someone whose judgment I trust. I find (even though I often don’t practice what I preach) that if I make the best decision I can and then pray, God does not leave me unanswered.

Not a very specific answer to the question… and as to how one knows one has done the right thing, well I don’t think we always get that consolation…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Ok first let me say that I’m single. I chose not to have children without being married and now it’s more than likely I will never have any but still I have to say I find all these threads about NFP troubling. It’s like everyone is out to do what they can to avoid children. I’m not for having 15 or 20 like the Duggars but whatever happened to the families of 5 or six kids. It’s like three became the norm and now only one or two is?? Just looking for thoughts on this. Do you think we’ve all lost focus on more important things?

In a word, yup.