When Did Christianity officially split from Judaism?

  • Thread starter Thread starter thephilosopher6
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
meltzerboy said:
It is never claimed in Judaism that Jews are “above others.” What is claimed–similar to Christianity–is that we have a mission, a responsibility to lead people and the world toward holiness by means of example,
Click to expand...
👍

The world is a much better place with more Jewish people - their contributions to everybody are in direct proportion to their responsibility to use G-d’s gifts.

Any Jewish pride that is displayed is always immensly overshadowed by generosity and good will.

…

To the OP, if I was among Jewish friends and Christians, I would say that Rabbinic Judaism split off from Temple Judaism from around the time of the destruction of the 2nd temple as a result of the incarnation of G-d grafting the gentiles onto the vine, the fulfillment of the ceremonial Law, and scandalous proscription to eat and drink of the Body and Blood of our Lord.

If I were among my Jewish friends who need to be encouraged in their faith, I would remind them that G-d’s Word endures forever and that the 1st Covenant continues - as always, unbroken for His people.
 
meltzerboy said:
It is never claimed in Judaism that Jews are “above others.” What is claimed–similar to Christianity–is that we have a mission, a responsibility to lead people and the world toward holiness by means of example, which is not, however, based on conversion to Judaism. This may sound a bit arrogant but it is not meant to be so.
Click to expand...
No, but you claim that you have the spiritual truth, but God did not reveal the whole truth to you. That was not his intention. His intention was for your people to bring the Messiah into the world, so he made a covenant with you. You are no longer apart of God’s covenant. That is why he destroyed your temple, because you rejected Christ. He put his judgment upon you. Jesus is the resurrected Lord, yet you rejected him. So God destroyed your temple.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
No, but you claim that you have the spiritual truth, but God did not reveal the whole truth to you. That was not his intention. His intention was for your people to bring the Messiah into the world, so he made a covenant with you. You are no longer apart of God’s covenant. That is why he destroyed your temple, because you rejected Christ. He put his judgment upon you. Jesus is the resurrected Lord, yet you rejected him. So God destroyed your temple.
Click to expand...
This is methinks a Christian perspective; not necessarily, however, the only Christian perspective. As Kaninchen has hinted, the Temple was not the beginning nor the end of Judaism (and neither is the Messiah) since many Jews could not even travel to the Temple. So-called rabbinic Judaism in the form of local synagogues was already in place while the Temple existed. In fact, many Jews were already cut off from the Temple after its FIRST destruction by the Babylonians. Further, blood offerings were not the only means of atonement for sins, especially for those who were poor and those who had no access to the Temple: flour offerings were perfectly acceptable. Besides, blood atonement or sacrifices were only for the purpose of UNINTENTIONAL sins, not intentional sins; and thus, blood sacrifices were the WEAKEST means of atonement, while prayer and good deeds are the strongest. The Hebrew Bible is quite clear regarding all of this. Finally, the so-called judgment you speak of enabled the Jews to disperse throughout many nations and bring their religion and ethical values with them. They were influenced by some of the customs in foreign lands but they also influenced others to adopt more ethical values.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
No, but you claim that you have the spiritual truth, but God did not reveal the whole truth to you. That was not his intention. His intention was for your people to bring the Messiah into the world, so he made a covenant with you. You are no longer apart of God’s covenant. That is why he destroyed your temple, because you rejected Christ. He put his judgment upon you. Jesus is the resurrected Lord, yet you rejected him. So God destroyed your temple.
Click to expand...
You are so very, very mistaken.
 
meltzerboy said:
This is methinks a Christian perspective; not necessarily, however, the only Christian perspective. As Kaninchen has hinted, the Temple was not the beginning nor the end of Judaism (and neither is the Messiah) since many Jews could not even travel to the Temple. So-called rabbinic Judaism in the form of local synagogues was already in place while the Temple existed. In fact, many Jews were already cut off from the Temple after its FIRST destruction by the Babylonians. Further, blood offerings were not the only means of atonement for sins, especially for those who were poor and those who had no access to the Temple: flour offerings were perfectly acceptable. Besides, blood atonement or sacrifices were only for the purpose of UNINTENTIONAL sins, not intentional sins; and thus, blood sacrifices were the WEAKEST means of atonement, while prayer and good deeds are the strongest. The Hebrew Bible is quite clear regarding all of this. Finally, the so-called judgment you speak of enabled the Jews to disperse throughout many nations and bring their religion and ethical values with them. They were influenced by some of the customs in foreign lands but they also influenced others to adopt more ethical values.
Click to expand...
The temple was at the center of Judaism though. Now it is destroyed. You were judged and cast out. Jesus is resurrected and you rejected him.
 
You all do realize I’m clearly not in the mood for arguing right now? I made this thread to discuss the separation of Christianity from Judaism not the debate between Judaism and Christianity. If you want to debate, then message me and I might respond back.
 
Please control yourself, philosopher. This is your own thread and I don’t think the purpose of it is to call people heretics and rejects.
 
meltzerboy said:
Please control yourself, philosopher. This is your own thread and I don’t think the purpose of it is to call people heretics and rejects.
Click to expand...
He is a heretic. And I will not control myself. What I say is right and I know it because Jesus told me in a dream last night.
 
I’m currently having a mental breakdown. I am taking a rest from CAF.
 
meltzerboy said:
This is methinks a Christian perspective; not necessarily, however, the only Christian perspective. As Kaninchen has hinted, the Temple was not the beginning nor the end of Judaism (and neither is the Messiah) since many Jews could not even travel to the Temple. So-called rabbinic Judaism in the form of local synagogues was already in place while the Temple existed. In fact, many Jews were already cut off from the Temple after its FIRST destruction by the Babylonians. Further, blood offerings were not the only means of atonement for sins, especially for those who were poor and those who had no access to the Temple: flour offerings were perfectly acceptable. Besides, blood atonement or sacrifices were only for the purpose of UNINTENTIONAL sins, not intentional sins; and thus, blood sacrifices were the WEAKEST means of atonement, while prayer and good deeds are the strongest. The Hebrew Bible is quite clear regarding all of this. Finally, the so-called judgment you speak of enabled the Jews to disperse throughout many nations and bring their religion and ethical values with them. They were influenced by some of the customs in foreign lands but they also influenced others to adopt more ethical values.
Click to expand...
I am so enjoying this conversation, but WAIT, WAIT…

blood sacrifices were the WEAKEST means of atonement, while prayer and good deeds are the strongest.

Is this really true??? I need to hear more about this because I thought blood sacrifice was the ultimate…???

I love my Jewish brothers and sisters and believe they have so much information that sort of got lost. I’m thinking of the original MEANINGS of so much of our Mass…
 
Kaninchen said:
Perhaps the answer to your question might lie in considering some of the implications of your earlier paragraph?

In it there’s a kind of assumption that there was a split in Judaism between what was to become Christianity (which Christians see as the true Jewish paradigm) and ‘Rabbinic Judaism’ which is sometimes argued to be some newly-invented version taken up by those refusing to accept the Christian Saviour.

But was this ever the case? Was there a ‘paradigm-split’ or did Christianity involve a ‘new’ paradigm/set of paradigms? [Even if some of them had been lying around in some old Jewish luggage from ancient travels 😉 ]
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that Second Temple Judaism was, for lack of a better term, a “mess.” Mess in the same way that something like Hinduism is…

ie: There is no nice neatly orderly top-down structure to the organization of those who hold the religious faith.

Although if you are speaking in terms of multiple Jewish paradigms for faith - would it be appropriate say there was a High vs. Low element in the religion of the time?

That something like the Temple Cult essentially appealed to a certain set of…(financially well off?) Jews, while sitting out in the desert with the Essenes, or debating Torah in the local synagogue appeals to two other sets of Jews?
 
TheAtheist said:
I was under the impression that Second Temple Judaism was, for lack of a better term, a “mess.” Mess in the same way that something like Hinduism is…

ie: There is no nice neatly orderly top-down structure to the organization of those who hold the religious faith.

Although if you are speaking in terms of multiple Jewish paradigms for faith - would it be appropriate say there was a High vs. Low element in the religion of the time?

That something like the Temple Cult essentially appealed to a certain set of…(financially well off?) Jews, while sitting out in the desert with the Essenes, or debating Torah in the local synagogue appeals to two other sets of Jews?
Click to expand...
After the ‘train-wreck’ posts above I think this thread is really at an end. Another time, perhaps?
 
thephilosopher6 said:
Most scholars and historians say that Christianity began as a sect and renewal movement within Judaism and that for the first few decades Christianity wasn’t seen as totally distinct from Judaism. The Council of Jerusalem (50 A.D) was the basis for the split between Judaism and Christianity, but that the break finally came in between a 60 year period from 70 A.D (destruction of the Second Temple) and 132 A.D (Bar Kokhba revolt). When exactly did Christians really start to see themselves as something distinct from Judaism?
Click to expand...
While there never was an official split (no council declaration or a papal encyclical or speech by a nationalist rabbi at the Wailing Wall :)), I always thought that the first time a distinction was made after the Nero fire in Rome, when Nero blamed the Christians as distinct from Jews. Also like that romantic notion that Christianity became a separate religion in a persecution.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top