When did Confession to a priest start?

[TimothyH]

You make a clear distinction then as “how” are we to have our sins forgiven; recalling John 20:23.

Acts 10:43 To him [Jesus] all the prophets bear witness, that everyone who believes in him will receive forgiveness of sins through his name.

This same notion is echoed in John 6 many many times. The Jews asked how they would receive this eternal bread, namely what “work”. And Jesus was very clear. To believe in him.

I’m not referencing Tradition or early church Fathers here. Which may indeed be the answer.

The point is, I don’t see scripture being sufficient enough for a sound argument.

If this is true then I am fine with this answer.

The belief which Jesus was talking about in John 6 was the belief that he was the literal bread of life.

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. (John 6:47-48)

The “Belief” is not just believing that Jesus is the Messiah or that he is the son of God, but it is the belief that what he is saying about his flesh being the literal bread of life, the return of the Manna from Heaven and the fulfillment of the Bread of the Presence which stood in the Holy Place in the Temple.

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. (John 6:35)

Jesus just fed five thousand with a few loaves. The Jews would have immediately seen this as the Bread of the Presence or “The bread of the face of God” which was placed outside of the Holy of Holies in the Jerusalem temple. The priests who ate the bread of the presence were satisfied with only a small morsel.

The belief which Jesus speaks about is the belief that he himself is the literal “Bread of the face of God” and the return of the life giving manna which kept the Israelites alive in the desert for 40 years.

-Tim-

 

[jpennstar]

Thanks Tim for the examples of the different degree of sins. I do agree with this. Those are good ones.

 

[pablope]

Okay it makes sense now why we do the public confession in church now.

But what of then mortal sins being required to be confessed to priests? 1 Jn 1:8 doesn’t make this distinction.

Is there something in scripture that does?

The OT is the forerunner of the NT, and the OT is perfected in the NT by Christ.

The following passages show confession through someone to be forgiven:

2Sam12:
13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

In Job 42 below, God orders Eliphaz to go through Job:

Job 42: 7 After the Lord had said these things to Job , he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

1Sam 15:

22 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”

24 Then Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned. I violated the Lord’s command and your instructions. I was afraid of the men and so I gave in to them. 25 Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord.”

In the passage above, Saul asks Samuel for forgiveness, but not the Lord’s, indicating that if he is forgiven by Samuel, he is also forgiven by the Lord…and he is able to worship the Lord again.

 

[steve_b]

The Epistle of James discusses confession. True, he says ‘confess your sins to one another’, but clearly confession to a priest has always been considered an essential part of obtaining forgiveness for serious sins, since Jesus did not give all, but only the Apostles, the power to absolve and retain.

.

Jas 5:
[14] Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests πρεσβύτερος presbyteros] of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.
[16] Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. (Douay translation from the Vulgate)

As you point out, The context is tell your sins to a priest, not to just anyone. .

The NT uses the term bishop, priest, elders and presbyters interchangeably.
over time the terms became specific

Episkopos=bishop
Presbyteros = priest, elder,

 

[johndoe100]

My wife and I confess our sins one to the other as in (Janes 5) while holding both hands facing one another. Saturday Confession is a Sscrament connected to partaking in the Eucharist on Sunday morning,

 

[steve_b]

My wife and I confess our sins one to the other as in (Janes 5) while holding both hands facing one another. Saturday Confession is a Sscrament connected to partaking in the Eucharist on Sunday morning,

The context in Jas 5 is

1. 
   *]call in the priest
   *]then confess your sins one to the other. i.e. one confesses their sins to a priest.
   
   The context is not about confessing one’s sins to jusy anyone.

 

[J_Peterson]

I recommend this book. It made a lot of things more clear to me. Made me want to go to confession more often:

http://img.aquinasandmore.com/items/Pardon-And-Peace2172lg.jpg

 

[johndoe100]

The context in Jas 5 is

1. 
   *]call in the priest
   *]then confess your sins one to the other. i.e. one confesses their sins to a priest.
   
   The context is not about confessing one’s sins to jusy anyone.

1. 
   Hello Steve,
   
   I can remember when we had Communal Confession Services at our Parish back in 1975, but no one mentions it anymore. (James chapter 5) was always mentioned, and that’s how I got started with my wife. I remember a Priest absolving everyone in one sweep, however, the confessionals were open for more serious sins. Nowadays, we build on our marriage relationship, plus as Christmatics we Impart Blessings one to the other to mutually encourage and strengthen one another at the same time. (Romans 1:11-12)

 

[LilyM]

Hello Steve,

I can remember when we had Communal Confession Services at our Parish back in 1975, but no one mentions it anymore. (James chapter 5) was always mentioned, and that’s how I got started with my wife. I remember a Priest absolving everyone in one sweep, however, the confessionals were open for more serious sins. Nowadays, we build on our marriage relationship, plus as Christmatics we Impart Blessings one to the other to mutually encourage and strengthen one another at the same time. (Romans 1:11-12)

This, while an excellent practice, does NOT replace confession by an individual to their priest in cases of serious sin.

The reason no-one mentions it anymore is because the practice of absolving sins in ‘one fell swoop’ as you describe is reprobated and has been cracked down on.

And with good reason. Group absolution is only to be used in emergency cases where individual confession is impossible, such as the priest who did so at the WTC on 9/11. Even then, if you survive the emergency you still need to seek individual confession ASAP.

 

[johndoe100]

This, while an excellent practice, does NOT replace confession by an individual to their priest in cases of serious sin.

The reason no-one mentions it anymore is because the practice of absolving sins in ‘one fell swoop’ as you describe is reprobated and has been cracked down on.

And with good reason. Group absolution is only to be used in emergency cases where individual confession is impossible, such as the priest who did so at the WTC on 9/11. Even then, if you survive the emergency you still need to seek individual confession ASAP.

Thanks, this is what I like about this forum. Good reliable information. Those were wild years for the California Catholics. I remember the Bishop having teams circulating in the Diocese making sure that we didn’t slip back into our old Catholic habits. All is well that ends well, and I really enjoy the modern NO Mass now with all if it’s improvements.

 

[steve_b]

Thanks, this is what I like about this forum. Good reliable information. Those were wild years for the California Catholics.

There’s still a few renegades left out there. Catholics who don’t know their faith which unfortunately are legion in proportion, fall prey to these malformed renegades from the 60’s and 70’s.
j:

I remember the Bishop having teams circulating in the Diocese making sure that we didn’t slip back into our old Catholic habits.

not sure what habits you mean.

 

[tafan]

Dontknow if this has been mentioned, but we have the Irish to thank for our private lessons.

 

[onenow1]

I like the woman at the well confessing to Jesus; and He, just happens to be Priest ,Prophet and King.

Peace,and God Bless !
onenow1

 

[steve_b]

Hello Steve,

I can remember when we had Communal Confession Services at our Parish back in 1975, but no one mentions it anymore. (James chapter 5) was always mentioned, and that’s how I got started with my wife. I remember a Priest absolving everyone in one sweep, however, the confessionals were open for more serious sins. Nowadays, we build on our marriage relationship, plus as Christmatics we Impart Blessings one to the other to mutually encourage and strengthen one another at the same time. (Romans 1:11-12)

As was already said, that group confession led to huge confusion and abuses.

Re: venial vs mortal sin

At the beginning of every mass, when the priest says “may almighty God forgive us our sins … and bring us to life everlasting …and everyone responds AMEN” In the Latin mass, the priest formally makes the sign of the cross while he blesses everyone as he says those words, and we all blessed ourselves in return saying AMEN after that. All venial sins are forgiven at the beginning of every mass.

That is not meant nor is it the case for mortal sins.

in addition, If one at any time during the day or night, asks God for forgiveness of venial sins, they are forgiven.

But as [1 Jn 5:16-17] says, not so for mortal sin

 

[bmonk]

I’m not aware of what the Church Fathers say about the forgiveness of sins and confession, but the history of the sacrament might be illuminating.

As early as the First letter of John (especially 1 Jn 1:5-8; 5:14-18) there were special consideration for forgiveness of sins, and distinctions between deadly (mortal) sin and lesser (venial) sins.

The Gospel also has provision for forgiveness: Mt 16:19 and 18:18 are not clear about who is given the power to forgive, just Peter alone? All the disciples? some specific group? But one point is clear overall: Christians are called to forgive others, as we have been forgiven.

But how was this to be administered? The very early Christians seem to have had no provision for administering forgiveness after baptism. Sin once in a big way, and you were out. But even Paul notes that more should be done to encourage repentance and return.

The Apostolic Fathers include a book, The Shepherd of Hermas, that teaches on reconciliation after repentance. Eventually by 200 or so, this got formalized as the public penitentary: a public confession of the most serious sins to the bishop, who then set the terms of reconciliation, which were carried out during Lent, sometimes over several years. This could only be used once. As a result, many Christians were saving the reconciliation and forgiveness of baptism for their deathbed, since if they fell again they were in real danger of hellfire. The Emperor Constantine may be one example of this–although he had the additional problem of having to order executions, so he had another reason to delay baptism.

During the Dark Ages, between about A.D. 500-800 the Irish monks brought a new practice to the Continent: private confession to a priest (at first, any monk was used, and it was more like spiritual direction). This is when the penitentials were developed–lists of sins and the appropriate penances, with equivalences. (One later development of this would be the whole indulgence system, with so many days or years for each observance or prayer.) This eventually developed into the Sacrament we still have, in a slightly reformed practice.

So, the Sacrament has been through at least two major reforms: the public penitentary, and then private auricular confession.