When did Jesus first become Man?

[wynnejj]

When did Jesus first become man - point of conception or point of birth?

Has Jesus’ Right to Be Born been corrected and acknowledged in the Nicene Creed recited in our “new” Mass Liturgy?
Was Jesus’ Right to Be Born implicitly not recognized in the Nicene Creed of the previous Mass Liturgy?

We used to bow our heads and say…

“by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”

We now bow our heads and say…

“and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”

It seems an important point when analyzing Jesus’ “certain unalienable rights” from an American Catholic standpoint, foremost being the Right to Life, then Liberty, then the Pursuit of Happiness.

 

[Richard320]

Good catch!

At conception, because He is like us in all things except sin.

Bear in mind that the “new” Mass isn’t really “new.” The master text is in Latin, so it has always maintained what we are just now saying in English. We just had a bad translation corrected.

 

[wynnejj]

Bear in mind that the “new” Mass isn’t really “new.” The master text is in Latin, so it has always maintained what we are just now saying in English. We just had a bad translation corrected.

It is true that it was a bad translation that has been corrected.

What I would love to see is an effort in the Pro-Life movement to highlight this fact.

Not to say “we gotcha”. Rather, to emphasize that this point is central to the Mass Liturgy, in that the “Word is made Flesh” again every day in the Mass Liturgy at the Point of Consecration.

In that state, Jesus to our senses is hidden but fully man, just as the “baby” in the womb is fully a member of mankind - even when just a “blob of tissue” with no brain or pain centers.

Is Jesus in the Holy Eucharist in the state of being one of the least of our brethren?

 

[Waiting]

When did Jesus first become man - point of conception or point of birth?

Has Jesus’ Right to Be Born been corrected and acknowledged in the Nicene Creed recited in our “new” Mass Liturgy?
Was Jesus’ Right to Be Born implicitly not recognized in the Nicene Creed of the previous Mass Liturgy?

We used to bow our heads and say…

“by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”

We now bow our heads and say…

“and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”

It seems an important point when analyzing Jesus’ “certain unalienable rights” from an American Catholic standpoint, foremost being the Right to Life, then Liberty, then the Pursuit of Happiness.

The wording “was incarnate of the Virgin Mary” is more to the point than “was born of the Virgin Mary.” Jesus became man at conception, not at birth, for those who are not sure when Jesus actually became man.

 

[wynnejj]

What strikes me is that…

1. The Nicene Creed is a summary and litany of our most basic beliefs - our first principles.
2. We BOW OUR HEADS at the very bad translation that relates to when does a human being have the rights of all men.
3. The bad translation implicitly affirms American abortion policies by suggesting that Jesus was not “man” until he was born.
4. The corrected translation re-affirms Jesus became “man” - that is, a full citizen of mankind - from the point of conception.

Note: We don’t bow our heads at any other point - not the crucifixion, not the resurrection, etc.

It strikes me as the hand of God guiding the Mass Liturgy - pointing out a specific belief that is most important, especially in our time post Vatican II.

 

[lutherlic]

Born of the Virgin Mary works for me as in those days, without IVF, if someone was born of a woman then he or she was conceived in her womb by definition. (It should be that way today, but I won’t sidetrack the topic.)

Note that the corrected Apostles creed still says “born of the Virgin Mary”.

 

[wynnejj]

Note that the corrected Apostles creed still says “born of the Virgin Mary”.

Note, too, that the corrected Apostles Creed doesn’t add the phrase “and became man”, which is the point. If it did, it too would imply that Jesus became Man at the point of birth.

In fact, Jesus became Man when the Word was Made Flesh and that parallels the celebration of the Eucharist when the Word is Made Flesh again at the point of Consecration.

Eucharistic Adoration should include adoring Jesus, the Unborn King, too.