When did people stop living in reality?

[DL82]

This is a bit of a rant, maybe I’m just an old romantic, but it seems that there was something more REAL about the way people used to live compared to now.

Growing up in a fairly traditional rural town in Scotland, with fairly traditional parents, with my working-class grandparents playing a big part in my upbringing, I just felt, I felt part of something. Things felt real. That’s not a long time ago, I’m talking about the 1980’s, but probably a world that for most people died in the 60’s.

When did the characters in kids’ computer games become more real to them than old Mr & Mrs Smith who live next door? When did people begin constructing artificial bubble worlds for themselves that kept their kids from the streets, the young from the old, our food from the animals it comes from, our heat from the coal it comes from?

A settled, well rounded person, religious or otherwise, is someone who has reconciled their values with the reality in which they live. One of the reasons I think it’s easier to be a religious or atheistical fundamentalist these days is that people stick so fast to their beliefs that they exclude anything in reality that doesn’t agree. We can surround ourselves online with like-minded people, whereas if you spoke to your neighbours or even the other people at mass you’d probably find a whole different REALITY.

OK, like I said at the start, I don’t really know where I’m going with this. I’m not saying this to judge or condemn anybody. I just want to know when and why reality became a lifestyle choice?

 

[juliasmith]

I can sympathize with your take on things regarding our current culture and lifestyles. I cannot stress enough my disgust with 30 and 40 year olds who ‘live’ through the internet and spend their time with comic books and downloading music. It seems to me we have a culture of adult children. The internet, while potentially a valuable educational/ networking tool, has born out some very negative aspects for us.
I think ‘reality’ took a back seat with the advent of the drug/free love culture of the sixties and the internet was born out of that mentality.

 

[Michael_David]

This depends on what one sees as ‘reality’.

There is an objective reality and a subjective reality. The objective is what is there, the subjective is what we see of it and how it applies to ourselves.

It is how the USA was before Pearl Harbor (at peace), and how it was after (at war); it is why when one school bus driver takes advantage of one of the school kids that parents do not want to send their kids to school on a bus; it is when you think you have the winning lottery ticket (until the drawing); it is when Friday comes and you get manic… then Monday comes and you get depressed. What are the realities for these and to who are they felt? If all one sees in their life is pain and suffering, getting lost in a game is a nicer time, especially if one feels helpless to help or change it.

We all want to live happily, but if that is not what is out there (out of our control), then getting lost in a game or movie or book is a good escape (though temporary). Until it becomes too much of a habit where one tries to leave the real world behind and so-to-say, jump off.

However, if one looks at the odds, most of the horror happening out there is very minimal for the number of people in the area. So, is one looking at what could happen (through eyes of fear), or through eyes of living life with the odds in ones favor? If one is able to look at the numbers and percentage, it is more optimistic. If not, all that is seen and read and heard about leads to a very bad world.

It is quite possible that because one can see and feel that this pessimistic sense dominates. One can help, but there are so many and they are just one. It looks like a lost cause. Things done in the virtual world are more under control, and if I loose all my money playing 21, all I have to do is hit ‘reset’ to start over. If it was real, I would be broke. Yes, it’s nice to be a kid, with not much responsibility and many ideals with a very good imagination. In the real world things don’t always go this way.

As for me though, I’ll take the real world (as it is) rather then spend my energy ‘shadow’ boxing… and never able to really accomplish anything worth doing.

 

[manualman]

I blame the industrail revolution.

Before that, you had to choose to live in the community in which you lived or be a hermit.

With the advent of big cities, mass transit and cars it became possible to only associate with those just like ourselves. And over time, we did.

 

[SimonArizona]

When they invented the internet:thumbsup:

Wars and suffering wake people up to live again. Too much prosperity and fortune lull people to sleep.

After 9/11 americans woke up.

 

[Junebug999]

DL82 – I agree – it is like they exchange a real world for a fake world (I did at one time too – but thank goodness REAL life shook me out of it.)

Plus I think essential skills are being so lost (sewing, gardening, mechanical skills). And you mention people talking to strangers across the world instead of Mr. and Mrs. Smith next door. That is so sad but true. Personally, I do think this is all of a part of a downhill slide of society. Sometimes I feel like some of us are trying to hold on to a society we do not want sliding any further. If you listen carefully though, I sometimes hear society yelling as they slide further “Whhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!”

 

[cpayne]

I just want to know when and why reality became a lifestyle choice?

This is sort of a strange thought, but I’ve been reading Josef Pieper’s book “Leisure, the Basis of Culture.” He argues that people lose contact with reality when they lose sight of what leisure is really for. When we think spare time is for “fun” or “vacation” or “entertainment” and then back to “work” (which we think is “the real world”), we lose real leisure. Leisure is holidays / holy days, contemplating what is Real, thinking about the blessings of life, family, God, etc.

How can people get in contact with reality when all free time and energy is taken up with entertainment?

 

[Oscarthecat]

I cannot stress enough my disgust with 30 and 40 year olds who ‘live’ through the internet and spend their time with comic books and downloading music. It seems to me we have a culture of adult children. The internet, while potentially a valuable educational/ networking tool, has born out some very negative aspects for us.

I agree with you completely, so don’t take this as any kind of challenge- but don’t you think that it is a little ironic that this conversation is happening through the very medium that seems to be so close to the heart of this problem?

IMHO, I think that each generation has had to adjust to new modes of communication, just as the generation of 30 and 40 year olds is adjusting to this one.

There are examples from 100’s of years ago of people decrying the danger of becoming a society of letter writers who spent all their time writing letters to people they never saw, while ignoring the people around them.

The same was said of two way long range radio hobbyists back in the 50’s on up until today- they would stay up late at night when the short wave signal could get the best range, and spend hours trying to talk to other hobbyists around the world.

And there are plenty of pop culture examples in movies and sitcoms referring to the stereotypical teenage girl who spent all of her time talking to her best friend on the phone, but didn’t have any interest in walking next door and actually talking to her in person.

It’ll be alright in time because in time the next generation will get over the novelty of it and spend all their time doing the next big thing-

 

[Oscarthecat]

This is sort of a strange thought, but I’ve been reading Josef Pieper’s book “Leisure, the Basis of Culture.” He argues that people lose contact with reality when they lose sight of what leisure is really for. When we think spare time is for “fun” or “vacation” or “entertainment” and then back to “work” (which we think is “the real world”), we lose real leisure. Leisure is holidays / holy days, contemplating what is Real, thinking about the blessings of life, family, God, etc.

How can people get in contact with reality when all free time and energy is taken up with entertainment?

That’s an excellent point- and would have come in very handy in a recent conversation in this forum- I think the title was something like “Employers deprive workers of a life”, wherein a disgruntled employee argued that his boss should be forced to pay him the same to work fewer hours because he didn’t think he had enough free time to have fun.

 

[edwest2]

This is a bit of a rant, maybe I’m just an old romantic, but it seems that there was something more REAL about the way people used to live compared to now.

Growing up in a fairly traditional rural town in Scotland, with fairly traditional parents, with my working-class grandparents playing a big part in my upbringing, I just felt, I felt part of something. Things felt real. That’s not a long time ago, I’m talking about the 1980’s, but probably a world that for most people died in the 60’s.

When did the characters in kids’ computer games become more real to them than old Mr & Mrs Smith who live next door? When did people begin constructing artificial bubble worlds for themselves that kept their kids from the streets, the young from the old, our food from the animals it comes from, our heat from the coal it comes from?

A settled, well rounded person, religious or otherwise, is someone who has reconciled their values with the reality in which they live. One of the reasons I think it’s easier to be a religious or atheistical fundamentalist these days is that people stick so fast to their beliefs that they exclude anything in reality that doesn’t agree. We can surround ourselves online with like-minded people, whereas if you spoke to your neighbours or even the other people at mass you’d probably find a whole different REALITY.

OK, like I said at the start, I don’t really know where I’m going with this. I’m not saying this to judge or condemn anybody. I just want to know when and why reality became a lifestyle choice?

There is nothing romantic about it. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, people in the States said Hello to each other. Kids were taught to respect their elders and addressed them as Mister and Misses. Politeness and common courtesy ensured that even complete strangers could begin a conversation properly. They could introduce themselves and be civil. People sat on their porches and talked. On hot nights, me and my sister would take our dog for a walk through the neighborhood and people would greet us and talk to us.

In the late 1960s, a new orthodoxy appeared on both sides of the pond. I watched teens around my age give themselves wholheartedly to a radical way of living. I daresay some behaved as if they had just been let go from boot camp. Normal, civil young men grew their hair long, began smoking marijuana and discarded any idea of a proper relationship with the opposite sex. They wore peace symbols but that was the only artifact of value in their new hedonism.

Someone, supposedly their ‘peers’ but there is no evidence of that, said it’s OK to not be like your parents. In fact, don’t trust anyone over 30! They don’t know anything! Priests, nuns, mom, dad, are fools. A new culture will arise!

Well, 40 years later and what is the fruit of it? What good came of it? Illegal drugs, long hair, shacking up, profanity with every other word? That was somehow better?

And then we have the recent rise of Opinion Culture where no one is right or wrong, just OK. As Catholics, we need to understand what is right and what is wrong and explain it to others if need be. The problem with opinions is that not every one is right. I don’t believe in forcing my beliefs on anyone but if we’re Catholics, why are too many of us living like those who aren’t or who no longer care?

Finally, the internet. It is teaching young and old How to Behave Badly. Most internet forums are a jumble of selfish, egotistic, misinformed, bored and uncivil people. Is this how you want to spend your hours? Living in a fantasy world with a fake name? It certainly will not develop your social skills.

God knows I’m not perfect but come on.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Socratic_Method]

Finally, the internet. It is teaching young and old How to Behave Badly. Most internet forums are a jumble of selfish, egotistic, misinformed, bored and uncivil people. Is this how you want to spend your hours? Living in a fantasy world with a fake name? It certainly will not develop your social skills.

I take offense at this… And I think everyone on this forum should, too (since, you know, this IS an internet forum that you’re on right now and therefore all of us happen to belong to the group you are speaking about. xD)

Yeah, we can go on and on about how many bad things and wastes of time are out there on the world wide web, but don’t you think you’re making quite a generalization? I happen to be a frequent member of quite a few internet forums, and through some I have come to meet many amazing people, none of whom are any more selfish, egotistic, misinformed, bored, or uncivil than those you’d find anywhere else in “real life.” In fact, I could name a few whom I’ve met through a particular forum and have been in contact with for about four or five years. They r t3h pwn$4uc3.

The important thing to remember here is that internet, like the postal service or telephone, is a form of communication. And, like any other form of communication, it can be filled with positive and negative messages alike. It is a tool, and nothing more. One could use this tool to promote well-being or to diminish it, but in and of itself, the internet is a neutral thing.

Then again, the internet opens up amazing opportunities! In what other day and age would I be able to sit down at a desk and converse with someone from Australia, or congratulate my good acquaintance in Britain when I hear that he is engaged? Or video-conference a friend in New York state and get a chance to listen to some music that he’s been writing? Or perhaps even look at a great Catholic forum to read discussions of faith and morality between hundreds of thousands of people of all locations, opinions, and backgrounds? Had the internet not been an available tool, I would not have been able to meet these people at all, or even know that they existed.

Of course, this doesn’t mean that I should lock myself inside and converse only with the people I meet on the internet. If I do that, I’m depriving myself of the wonderful people that are right in my neighborhood and community. On the other hand, if I only converse with the people in my own neighborhood and community and refuse to use the tools available to learn about people across the globe, I’m depriving myself of the wonderful people that aren’t right in my neighborhood and community.

Not everyone uses the internet as an “escape” from reality; rather, they see it as a way to broaden their view of reality. Not everyone uses the internet to disguise their identity; rather, to show their true selves to the world.

The internet is a tool. How one uses it determines it’s effect.

 

[edwest2]

I said most and I stand by that claim, which is backed up by this article:

nytimes.com/2007/06/29/books/29book.html

The internet is not a tool and nothing more. Forums are not private phone calls. In an internet forum, anyone can listen in. In an internet forum, the bored and impolite can take an opportunity to satisfy a whim, shout profanities and leave. Private dirty conversations in dimly lit bars now occur on internet forums for all to see. Propagandists and liars spread their falsehoods everywhere, including here. People posing as Catholics try to create confusion, doubt and deception. This could not happen if internet forums were private phone conversations or private letters.

I am a moderator on another forum filled with Leftists, Anarchists, Atheists and a few Agnostics. Theirs is a little clique where dissenters are leapt upon the moment they disagree with their views. Internet forums have helped create a meaningless Opinion Culture where all opinions are held as being equally valid. On a Catholic Forum, anyone is free to offer their opinion but not all are right either by Natural Law or Church teaching. The purpose of this forum should be the edifying of the Body of Christ, the Revealed Truth and the truth in the Deposit of Faith as held by the Church. All other opinions should be judged on that basis.

Too many people live in a culture where there is no definite truth, just ‘interesting conversations.’ That is no way to conduct a real life. The internet teaches people a lot of bad things. A lot of negative things. Those who choose to live in the secular world are remarkably consistent in their views. Views, which are, generally, directly opposite to Christian life and values.

I am glad to hear you have met people online and formed relationships. But the bad generally outweighs the good. As you can read from the article I linked to, the internet is being manipulated and used to distort and actually dumb down people’s view of reality. It does dull the critical thought processes when people are trained to run to wikipedia, grab an undocumented fact and spread it around as if it were gospel. Or my favorite: “Well, you’re wrong, see, cause my buddy said…”

Peace,
Ed

 

[Sam_Maloney]

We stopped living in reality the moment the first of us [probably Adam] looked up at the clouds and imagined the shapes were horses or sheep.

A quickly growing number would say that those who believe in God-- any god-- refuse to accept the evidence of their eyes…

 

[Scottgun]

I don’t know. Here in Virginia, I have often visted Jefferson’s home Monticello and couldn’t help but notice that the nearest neighbor was miles away. The whole thing is a monument to self-reliance (of course with lots of help in the form of slaves.) He wrote tons of letters, which is really just a really slowwwww internet.

So it seems that the only thing that is different is that you don’t have to be a wealthy, land-owning Elightenment blowhard to hole up in your house anymore. Even us scrubs can do it, and seem to have taken to it.

 

[Socratic_Method]

I said most and I stand by that claim, which is backed up by this article:

nytimes.com/2007/06/29/books/29book.html

The internet is not a tool and nothing more. Forums are not private phone calls. In an internet forum, anyone can listen in. In an internet forum, the bored and impolite can take an opportunity to satisfy a whim, shout profanities and leave. Private dirty conversations in dimly lit bars now occur on internet forums for all to see. Propagandists and liars spread their falsehoods everywhere, including here. People posing as Catholics try to create confusion, doubt and deception. This could not happen if internet forums were private phone conversations or private letters.

I am a moderator on another forum filled with Leftists, Anarchists, Atheists and a few Agnostics. Theirs is a little clique where dissenters are leapt upon the moment they disagree with their views. Internet forums have helped create a meaningless Opinion Culture where all opinions are held as being equally valid. On a Catholic Forum, anyone is free to offer their opinion but not all are right either by Natural Law or Church teaching. The purpose of this forum should be the edifying of the Body of Christ, the Revealed Truth and the truth in the Deposit of Faith as held by the Church. All other opinions should be judged on that basis.

Too many people live in a culture where there is no definite truth, just ‘interesting conversations.’ That is no way to conduct a real life. The internet teaches people a lot of bad things. A lot of negative things. Those who choose to live in the secular world are remarkably consistent in their views. Views, which are, generally, directly opposite to Christian life and values.

I am glad to hear you have met people online and formed relationships. But the bad generally outweighs the good. As you can read from the article I linked to, the internet is being manipulated and used to distort and actually dumb down people’s view of reality. It does dull the critical thought processes when people are trained to run to wikipedia, grab an undocumented fact and spread it around as if it were gospel. Or my favorite: “Well, you’re wrong, see, cause my buddy said…”

Peace,
Ed

I don’t see why the scenarios you present couldn’t have happened without the internet…

I also don’t see why “In an internet forum, anyone can listen in.” is a terrible thing. So it’s a bad thing to have a conversation that everyone can hear? So maybe making speeches is wrong, or talking on the radio is wrong… Or preaching to thousands of people on the hillside, as Jesus did, is wrong?

Private dirty conversations in dimly lit bars now occur on internet forums for all to see. Propagandists and liars spread their falsehoods everywhere, including here. People posing as Catholics try to create confusion, doubt and deception. This could not happen if internet forums were private phone conversations or private letters.

Again, why couldn’t this happen without the internet? If I wanted to have a dirty conversation and make it available for everyone to see and I didn’t have the internet, I would simply walk outside and carry out the conversation in the middle of a crowded street. If I was a propagandist and liar and wanted to spread around a lie and didn’t have the internet, I would tell the lie to my friends and anyone who would listen, broadcast it in the streets, preach it over the radio or newspaper, publish a book, or drop pamphlets in people’s mailboxes. Any of these would have the same exact effect as posting a blog about it (maybe even more, since I think most people still consider published material to be more convincing than someone’s blog).

I am a moderator on another forum filled with Leftists, Anarchists, Atheists and a few Agnostics. Theirs is a little clique where dissenters are leapt upon the moment they disagree with their views.

Sorry, but things like this have been happening amongst humans since our beginning. I don’t see how the internet is responsible for it. By the way, your next sentence “Internet forums have helped create a meaningless Opinion Culture where all opinions are held as being equally valid.” seems to contradict… If your Atheist etc forum was participating in this Opinion Culture as you say, why would they attack dissenters? It seems to me like they definitely believe that they’re right.

the internet is being manipulated and used to distort and actually dumb down people’s view of reality.

And sex is being manipulated and used to distort God’s Love. Does this mean that sex is wrong? Not according to our Catholic belief it isn’t. It’s true that the internet is being used for messed up purposes, but the same is true for money, government, and natural resources. Even if half of the world started using rocks to bash the skulls of their neighbors, it wouldn’t make rocks evil in and of themselves.

 

[Maxply]

It’s more than just virtual reality vs. real reality.

It’s a matter of knowing how to DO things for yourself. Many teenagers have no notion how to use power tools, or how they would go about constructing something out of wood, or fix a simple electric fixture, or when to trim back rose bushes.

It’s LIVING INSIDE all the time. Along with affluence (rather than fix a broken switch, toss it out and just buy a whole new toaster).

 

[Socratic_Method]

By the way, I read the article you linked me to and found it very disheartening that the writer of the article considers “the bulk of our music coming from amateur garage bands” to be a terrible thing… Come on, give some love to the artists who aren’t in it for the money!! You can’t possibly say that amateur music is less superior to professional music.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

…Growing up in a fairly traditional rural town in Scotland, with fairly traditional parents, with my working-class grandparents playing a big part in my upbringing, I just felt, I felt part of something. Things felt real.

I’m near-abouts half-a-century of age.

I’ve wanted to live in the real world of rural Ireland since I was 9.

The unreal world was the mid-westcoast of America, where I still reside.

I fear I’ll never live in the real world.

The real world needs to come from parents. Mine never gave me a real world.

So, you parents out there, the real world starts with you. 'Sea, mhuise.

:shamrock2:

 

[edwest2]

By the way, I read the article you linked me to and found it very disheartening that the writer of the article considers “the bulk of our music coming from amateur garage bands” to be a terrible thing… Come on, give some love to the artists who aren’t in it for the money!! You can’t possibly say that amateur music is less superior to professional music.

As a professional writer and editor, I understand exactly what he’s saying (I also listened to him on Catholic radio discussing his book).

The internet can be an outlet for amateurs but these amateurs have little in the way of guidance for developing their craft. People don’t become professional musicians, writers or artists because they can put their work on the internet or have 5 copies of their book printed up. They will not get the benefit of dealing with people with years of practical experience who can help them reach a professional level. Unfortunately, the Cult of the Amateur assumes that access equals professionalism. I’ve spoken with artists on the phone and I’ve told them: Your computer will not help you develop your skills. I was shown a computer enhanced comic book by a guy in his teens. It was bad. Typical amateur stuff, but because he could add digital effects, he thought they made up for any flaws. Bottom line: when people try to go commercial and make some money, they’ll find out.

On the other hand, go ahead and use the internet, but realize that amateurs do not become professionals overnight or even in a few years. It takes a lot of work and a lot of practice.

God bless,
Ed

 

[John_AH]

We are just a culture of spoiled children. Not willing to work for anything worth while. So used to getting what we want. We cry at the slightest bit of “unfairness” and then blame it on someone else for our misery.

Is it going on at grand scale now! To the tune of billions! Ob*%$ is winning because he tells them exactly what they want to hear.

This country was built on hard work. Now it gets along in fantasy. Each bubble has its day.

Just like abortion will have its day… We keep making them and they will keep killing their own. It is just a matter of time.

When did it happen? It happened with having so much given and not worked for. Industrialization was the start, our war victories feed our egos, and modernization was the death of our humility.

God Bless us all.
John Anthony

P.S. Just a little off topic…my little dream. The church should have baby drive! Get them really scared! Imagine the headlines “CHRISTIAN POPULATION GROWING AT A ALARMING RATE” and see their reaction trying to eurge there followers to actully keep their babies! Remember the devils world is divided!