When did people stop living in reality?

[JustinR]

We stopped lliving in reality when our world stopped being based on reality and lost all common sense. Our government, our money/wages, and the family structure are no longer based on reality.

On our U.S. government - For example President Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex which would take over our government, the unreal deficit spending of money made up out of thin air ( officially now at 11 trillion, but really it is at over $20 trillion and forever growing) , which filters down to state, county , and small town budgets which only can function because of the federal government money handouts that were created with no basis in reality. States or counties that have a balanced budget only do so because they received the unreal Fed money. This all cause the fast devaluation of our money; which does take away the incentive to earn. Did you know a man making minimun wage in 1972 was able to support a family on just one income and buy a house, not now. Our money/prices are not based in reality/ look at the $20 million CEO pay or Paris Hilton or Brittinay Spears making millions, while many hard workers struggle with debt. Then our laws and regulations are not written with common sense, in the 1960s we had under 20 registared lobbyists influencing our laws , now we have over 43,000 lobbyists in Congress influencing the laws to their selfish benefit, not to mention the lobbyists on the state level, the result is the world our legislative bodies create and that we have to Live with is not based in reality or common sense. We recognize and experience the stupidity in the system and many choose to withdraw from it.

On family- we lost the connection with reality when in the 1970s it started that fathers experienced that they can quickly and easily be forever separated from their kids as a result of the no-fault divorce laws ( I have not experienced this, but have seen the effect) We saw the reality that vows of forever and the legal contract of marriage can be thrown away without penalty to the offending party. Then birth control pills and abortion seperated us from reality. Being “just” a parent is outweighed by the new army of professionals who are the experts in child rearing, so at schools, or when dealing with bureauracies the parents’ role is minimized. Schools, government, and courts have taken over the parenting role, restricting what parents can do, up to today when parents cannot protect their children from the homosexual agenda in schools, courts have ruled that parents have no say during school hours. And then there is the unreality of TV that a whole generation grew up on, whose minds were formed by the mindless shows.

There are other areas of life that have lost touch with reality, but the above illustrate my point. I can see why some people ‘check out’ from what reality has become.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I take offense at this… And I think everyone on this forum should, too (since, you know, this IS an internet forum that you’re on right now and therefore all of us happen to belong to the group you are speaking about. xD)

Yeah, we can go on and on about how many bad things and wastes of time are out there on the world wide web, but don’t you think you’re making quite a generalization? I happen to be a frequent member of quite a few internet forums, and through some I have come to meet many amazing people, none of whom are any more selfish, egotistic, misinformed, bored, or uncivil than those you’d find anywhere else in “real life.” In fact, I could name a few whom I’ve met through a particular forum and have been in contact with for about four or five years. They r t3h pwn$4uc3.

The important thing to remember here is that internet, like the postal service or telephone, is a form of communication. And, like any other form of communication, it can be filled with positive and negative messages alike. It is a tool, and nothing more. One could use this tool to promote well-being or to diminish it, but in and of itself, the internet is a neutral thing.

Then again, the internet opens up amazing opportunities! In what other day and age would I be able to sit down at a desk and converse with someone from Australia, or congratulate my good acquaintance in Britain when I hear that he is engaged? Or video-conference a friend in New York state and get a chance to listen to some music that he’s been writing? Or perhaps even look at a great Catholic forum to read discussions of faith and morality between hundreds of thousands of people of all locations, opinions, and backgrounds? Had the internet not been an available tool, I would not have been able to meet these people at all, or even know that they existed.

Of course, this doesn’t mean that I should lock myself inside and converse only with the people I meet on the internet. If I do that, I’m depriving myself of the wonderful people that are right in my neighborhood and community. On the other hand, if I only converse with the people in my own neighborhood and community and refuse to use the tools available to learn about people across the globe, I’m depriving myself of the wonderful people that aren’t right in my neighborhood and community.

Not everyone uses the internet as an “escape” from reality; rather, they see it as a way to broaden their view of reality. Not everyone uses the internet to disguise their identity; rather, to show their true selves to the world.

The internet is a tool. How one uses it determines it’s effect.

I whole heartedly second that!

 

[aspawloski4th]

We are just a culture of spoiled children. Not willing to work for anything worth while. So used to getting what we want. We cry at the slightest bit of “unfairness” and then blame it on someone else for our misery.

Is it going on at grand scale now! To the tune of billions! Ob*%$ is winning because he tells them exactly what they want to hear.

This country was built on hard work. Now it gets along in fantasy. Each bubble has its day.

Just like abortion will have its day… We keep making them and they will keep killing their own. It is just a matter of time.

When did it happen? It happened with having so much given and not worked for. Industrialization was the start, our war victories feed our egos, and modernization was the death of our humility.

God Bless us all.
John Anthony

P.S. Just a little off topic…my little dream. The church should have baby drive! Get them really scared! Imagine the headlines “CHRISTIAN POPULATION GROWING AT A ALARMING RATE” and see their reaction trying to eurge there followers to actully keep their babies! Remember the devils world is divided!

I take umbridge with that! I work 2 jobs to the tune of 7 days a week most weeks 50 to 60 hours a week while taking care of a partially disabled wife at home. After being physically spent, I go to the internet for use my brain, for the intellectual, and anyone who would take that from me is an enemy almost to the equil of Satan. I have in person relationships as well as internet relationships, I value both! The relationships I have online are people who have more incommon with me. I actually have very little in common with those who live around me. On one side they speak Mexican and refuse to learn English, on the otherside they are never home. Also to a certain poster here, I have long hair! While some of my generation certainly do not live in reality, please don’t paint with a braod brush and include me in that mix!

 

[aspawloski4th]

I blame the industrail revolution.

Before that, you had to choose to live in the community in which you lived or be a hermit.

With the advent of big cities, mass transit and cars it became possible to only associate with those just like ourselves. And over time, we did.

And whats wrong with that?

 

[as-a-child]

If you only love those who love you, what do you gain?

 

[John_AH]

I take umbridge with that! I work 2 jobs to the tune of 7 days a week most weeks 50 to 60 hours a week while taking care of a partially disabled wife at home. After being physically spent, I go to the internet for use my brain, for the intellectual, and anyone who would take that from me is an enemy almost to the equil of Satan. I have in person relationships as well as internet relationships, I value both! The relationships I have online are people who have more incommon with me. I actually have very little in common with those who live around me. On one side they speak Mexican and refuse to learn English, on the otherside they are never home. Also to a certain poster here, I have long hair! While some of my generation certainly do not live in reality, please don’t paint with a braod brush and include me in that mix!

I am not saying everyone is but for the most part most of us are quite spoiled. We take so many things for granted. I think many people don’t even realize how fortunate we are.

God’s humble servant
John Anthony

 

[Oscarthecat]

It’s more than just virtual reality vs. real reality.

It’s a matter of knowing how to DO things for yourself. Many teenagers have no notion how to use power tools, or how they would go about constructing something out of wood, or fix a simple electric fixture, or when to trim back rose bushes.

It’s LIVING INSIDE all the time. Along with affluence (rather than fix a broken switch, toss it out and just buy a whole new toaster).

It isn’t just that people don’t know how to do things for themselves, like fix household appliances, but that our society has become innundated by disposable goods. Things aren’t made to be fixed nowadays, they are made to be replaced when broken. It used to be that you could find replacement parts for everything from your TV to your toaster or, if the replacement part wasn’t available, you could at least fire up the soldering gun and fix it yourself. But that’s just not the case anymore- my washer broke not too long ago- it wasn’t something repairable, like the motor or the electrical connections, it was a circuitboard that cost almost as much to replace as it would to buy a new machine.

I think there is a bizarre dichotomy in how many of those same people who aren’t self-sufficient enough to know how to plant a garden or fix their freezer seem to hide away on their computer games and chat rooms to the point that their “in-person” social skills atrophy to the point of being hermits.

Despite all of that, i think this same phenomenon has been a problem in every generation in one way or another- our’s just a little moreso.

 

[Contarini]

That’s an excellent point- and would have come in very handy in a recent conversation in this forum- I think the title was something like “Employers deprive workers of a life”, wherein a disgruntled employee argued that his boss should be forced to pay him the same to work fewer hours because he didn’t think he had enough free time to have fun.

But of course if Pieper is right, then the title of the thread might be justified. Sure, leisure is for more than fun. But if I understand Pieper’s argument correctly, he’s arguing that work exists for the sake of leisure rather than the other way round. It’s precisely when leisure is seen as a break from the really important stuff that we feel free to make our leisure empty and hedonistic.

Edwin

 

[Oscarthecat]

But of course if Pieper is right, then the title of the thread might be justified. Sure, leisure is for more than fun. But if I understand Pieper’s argument correctly, he’s arguing that work exists for the sake of leisure rather than the other way round. It’s precisely when leisure is seen as a break from the really important stuff that we feel free to make our leisure empty and hedonistic.

Edwin

I think the problem you’re discussing is twofold. First is the development of this erroneous notion that leisure and work time have a heirarchical relationship, wherin on is subordinate to the other (either we work to have leisure time, or that the function of leisure is time to make us better workers).

The other is the notion that our lives can be arbitrarily divided into “me time,” “work time,” “family time,” “leisure time,” etc. Even Pieper makes this distinction, if I understand it correctly, that the two categories of “work time” and legitimate “leisure time” (described by cpayne as “Leisure is holidays / holy days, contemplating what is Real, thinking about the blessings of life, family, God, etc.”, can be divided from an illegitimate use of leisure time that is focused entirely on entertainment.

This leads to the idea that our behaviors and attitudes can and should legitimately change according to which “time” we happen to be in, so that hedonism is acceptable in the appropriate time and place. We come to percieve ourselves and our moral code differently according to where we are and what we’re supposed to be doing. For example, its OK to cuss and make lewd comments when you’re out drinking with your buddies, but not OK to do that on Sunday morning.

I think this sense of being divided between leisure time, work time, church time, family time, me time or whatever other time we come up with makes us, as individuals, feel anxious and confused- it gives us the sense that our lives are broken up and inconsistent, or that we aren’t getting enough of one kind of time or another such that we feel somehow cheated when we have to mow our lawn on saturday instead of laying around, or stay home with our sick child instead of going out to a movie.

The hardest hit casualties of this are those kids raised in this kind of society. For example, since certain kinds of “time” are more fun and enjoyable, those children who are taught that the validity of particular moral norms are subject to what kind of “time” they’re in will naturally seek to spend as much of their time as possible in those “times” that have the loosest moral norms.

I think that the answer to all of this is found in St. Benedicts principle that we are always mindful of God, and in doing so be humble and satisfied in all that we do.

I don’t know if I’m making any sense here, but that’s OK because I’m not writing this during my normal “writing time.” :doh2:

To get back to the OP’s post- people stopped living in reality when “dealing with reality” was reduced to being just another finite part of their day.

 

[John_AH]

I think the problem you’re discussing is twofold. First is the development of this erroneous notion that leisure and work time have a heirarchical relationship, wherin on is subordinate to the other (either we work to have leisure time, or that the function of leisure is time to make us better workers).

The other is the notion that our lives can be arbitrarily divided into “me time,” “work time,” “family time,” “leisure time,” etc. Even Pieper makes this distinction, if I understand it correctly, that the two categories of “work time” and legitimate “leisure time” (described by cpayne as “Leisure is holidays / holy days, contemplating what is Real, thinking about the blessings of life, family, God, etc.”, can be divided from an illegitimate use of leisure time that is focused entirely on entertainment.

This leads to the idea that our behaviors and attitudes can and should legitimately change according to which “time” we happen to be in, so that hedonism is acceptable in the appropriate time and place. We come to percieve ourselves and our moral code differently according to where we are and what we’re supposed to be doing. For example, its OK to cuss and make lewd comments when you’re out drinking with your buddies, but not OK to do that on Sunday morning.

I think this sense of being divided between leisure time, work time, church time, family time, me time or whatever other time we come up with makes us, as individuals, feel anxious and confused- it gives us the sense that our lives are broken up and inconsistent, or that we aren’t getting enough of one kind of time or another such that we feel somehow cheated when we have to mow our lawn on saturday instead of laying around, or stay home with our sick child instead of going out to a movie.

The hardest hit casualties of this are those kids raised in this kind of society. For example, since certain kinds of “time” are more fun and enjoyable, those children who are taught that the validity of particular moral norms are subject to what kind of “time” they’re in will naturally seek to spend as much of their time as possible in those “times” that have the loosest moral norms.

I think that the answer to all of this is found in St. Benedicts principle that we are always mindful of God, and in doing so be humble and satisfied in all that we do.

I don’t know if I’m making any sense here, but that’s OK because I’m not writing this during my normal “writing time.” :doh2:

To get back to the OP’s post- people stopped living in reality when “dealing with reality” was reduced to being just another finite part of their day.

Interesting way of looking at it!
That implies some very tough questions to self.

John Anthony

 

[neat62]

This is a bit of a rant, maybe I’m just an old romantic, but it seems that there was something more REAL about the way people used to live compared to now.

Growing up in a fairly traditional rural town in Scotland, with fairly traditional parents, with my working-class grandparents playing a big part in my upbringing, I just felt, I felt part of something. Things felt real. That’s not a long time ago, I’m talking about the 1980’s, but probably a world that for most people died in the 60’s.

When did the characters in kids’ computer games become more real to them than old Mr & Mrs Smith who live next door? When did people begin constructing artificial bubble worlds for themselves that kept their kids from the streets, the young from the old, our food from the animals it comes from, our heat from the coal it comes from?

A settled, well rounded person, religious or otherwise, is someone who has reconciled their values with the reality in which they live. One of the reasons I think it’s easier to be a religious or atheistical fundamentalist these days is that people stick so fast to their beliefs that they exclude anything in reality that doesn’t agree. We can surround ourselves online with like-minded people, whereas if you spoke to your neighbours or even the other people at mass you’d probably find a whole different REALITY.

When kids had to entertain themselves because mommy went to work.

 

[Appleby]

I have lived in Canada for eleven years (as of January 8, 2009 anyway) and so far not a single person has invited me to his or her home. The people in my church (I have attended six different churches in my eleven years) don’t acknowledge me unless I speak first, and then they never speak to me again – unless I speak first. Recently my father died and I have nobody here to talk to about him; Catholic Family Services has a three month waiting list and suggested I pay $140/hour to HIRE somebody to talk to me!

If it was not for the internet that keeps me in touch with my friends around the world I might have committed suicide by now.

As to why Canadians refuse to speak to or acknowledge me – my work mates are friendly and polite, but they simply do not seem to care what happens to me after I leave the office, and the churches seem to have the motto “If you want someone to talk to, bring someone with you!” – I have no idea. I have even asked them and they just look embarrassed and sort of slink away with that cringing smile people get when they are terrified you might attack them.

I suspect it is a cultural thing. People in Atlanta are friendly to everybody. People in California were friendly in context; that is, they would invite workmates to lunch or parties or whatever during and right after working hours but would not invite them to their homes, but we all had friends outside work that the people at work did not know. People in my part of Tennessee were mainly from New Jersey and greeted each other like long lost friends, and people in my part of Idaho were members of the Mormon Church and were friendly to fellow Mormons no matter where they hailed from.

But people here speak only to people whose grandparents went to school with their grandparents and never invite anybody new to join their cliques. In fact, a local teevee station did a “scene” in which it appeared that a woman’s wheel chair tipped over and she could not right herself – and people walked past her, even stepped over her, as if she did not exist. Finally a woman from across the street rushed to her aid and started screaming at passing men to help her. It turned out this woman was not Canadian – she was visiting from Pennsylvania. When they found out it was a teevee scene and their empty-faced indifference had been caught on film, passers-by became angry at the cameramen.