When did the Church Go off the Rails

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myfavoritmartin said:
Approx 1520 is where the seed beginnings got planted, in wittenberg. and is being brought more and more on the rails until the return of our Lord.
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The seeds were planted on the Cross, and germinated on Pentecost.

THAT is precisely where you’ve got it wrong. You’re 1,500 years too late.
 
Teflon93 said:
The seeds were planted on the Cross, and germinated on Pentecost.
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Absolutely! and things essentially were on track during clements time and the writing of the didache…
It was that painfully slow grab at authority that grew in the 3-5 century, that forced things to go amuck.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Absolutely! and things essentially were on track during clements time and the writing of the didache…
It was that painfully slow grab at authority that grew in the 3-5 century, that forced things to go amuck.
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Forced things to run amok for 1,200 years, despite Christ’s promise?

Ye of little faith.
 
jmcrae said:
I suppose there never should have been such a thing as Christianity, either, since without a leader, the movement itself cannot exist.

:rolleyes:
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Christ is the head, what better leader need there be?

He is our All in All…
 
myfavoritmartin said:
NW brother, what of clement writing to corinth, that letter is FILLED with the appeal to a multiplicity of elders and not a monarchial head…So now that church went from a group of beleivers leading fellows of faith, to your church as it stands with a monarchial authority, so when the reformation happened it was a case of getting the early church back in place. Though to answer the OP it started falling off at the turn of 2nd-3rd century falling from the early church into the roman church.
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Simon, Clement’s letter is clearly one that comes from a position of authority. The multiplicity of elders is at each local Church. But Clement’s language rather plainly denotes that he is speaking from a position over the Church of Corinth. I could go into details if you like.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Christ is the head, what better leader need there be?

He is our All in All…
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Luke 6:46 - Why do you call me Lord, Lord, but do not do what I tell you to do?

John 6:53 - Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Better heed the head.
 
NotWorthy said:
Simon, Clement’s letter is clearly one that comes from a position of authority. The multiplicity of elders is at each local Church. But Clement’s language rather plainly denotes that he is speaking from a position over the Church of Corinth. I could go into details if you like.
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Corinth was in its patriachate if you will…
and even a note from Dyonisus to Soter admits that it was ONLY for advice not instruction. Wpuldn’t he know that was only 70 years later.
 
Teflon93 said:
Luke 6:46 - Why do you call me Lord, Lord, but do not do what I tell you to do?

John 6:53 - Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Better heed the head.
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I listen to His everyword…
I eat and drink the Lord daily hourly minute by minute…
 
NotWorthy said:
Simon, Clement’s letter is clearly one that comes from a position of authority. The multiplicity of elders is at each local Church. But Clement’s language rather plainly denotes that he is speaking from a position over the Church of Corinth. I could go into details if you like.
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Clement may appear to exercise authority, but that authority is not ever linked to any authorization by Peter (such as the keys idea).

If Peter had X because of keys, it doesn’t follow that it is transferable to anyone else, certainly not because of what is written in Matthew 16, and that applies to contemporaries of Peter and to “successors” as well. There is no evidence, nor is it claimed, that Peter shared this keys power in his lifetime. Similarly, there is no reason to assume that it was passed on.

Clement, therefore, acts as if he has some authority, but not necessarily because of any keys transferred to him from Peter
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Narrow is the gate…
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Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So for 1,200 years, by your reckoning, Hell prevailed?

Perhaps you don’t listen so well. 😉
 
myfavoritmartin said:
He appointed the others as well…His primacy does nothing to support the catholic papacy.
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It seems to me we are left with only three possiblities.

The Church that has existed for 2,000 is the one true Church and never went off the rails.

God allowed his Church to go off the rails for 1,500 years condeming millions and millions of people to eternal hellfire for following false doctrines He has since allowed his Church to splinter into thousands of different denominations with unlimited versions of the Truth.

Jesus was indeed a lunatic .
 
Teflon93 said:
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So for 1,200 years, by your reckoning, Hell prevailed?

Perhaps you don’t listen so well. 😉
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Listen I am not suggesting you guys and your church are unsaved, I am also not suggesting or convinced the way they did things was God’s way.
 
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