When did the mass change?

[Alex_H]

The last time I regularly attended mass was around 2007-2008. I am not a Catholic though I was in RCIA for a time. I noticed several differences.

*The Gloria is now in Latin – it used to be sung in English.
*The Sanctus is now sung in Latin instead of English
*The Agnus Dei is now sung in Latin
*“And Also with you” has been changed to “And with your spirit”

When was it decided to change much of the mass to Latin and why?

Thank you for any answers. Peace.

 

[marytk]

The translation change five or so years ago >> (really don’t remember exactly but that is when the “And also with you” became “and with your Spirit.” The English is closer to the Latin now. (and for some of us old people who were around when the Mass was first in English it is more like that)
It is a choice of the parish to use the Latin for the Sanctus, Gloria and Agnus Dei. The Latin didn’t change. There are English versions to sing of the new translation of the Gloria and Sanctus.

 

[Alex_H]

The translation change five or so years ago >> (really don’t remember exactly but that is when the “And also with you” became “and with your Spirit.” The English is closer to the Latin now. (and for some of us old people who were around when the Mass was first in English it is more like that)
It is a choice of the parish to use the Latin for the Sanctus, Gloria and Agnus Dei. The Latin didn’t change. There are English versions to sing of the new translation of the Gloria and Sanctus.

Interesting. It’s a lot easier to sing along in English, for me at least!

 

[Duane1966]

Interesting. It’s a lot easier to sing along in English, for me at least!

I attend several parishes, and I believe none of them use the Latin.

 

[ProVobis]

When was it decided to change much of the mass to Latin and why?

If only this were true…

 

[twf]

Latin has always been the language of the Roman Rite mass. Since the late 60s, approved vernacular (native languages such as English) translations have been permitted by the Church, but Latin has always remained the official text and is always an option. In my archdiocese, you can find various degrees of Latin in a number of parishes including the cathedral. In some dioceses, you would have to look far and wide to find even a single word of Latin.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The last time I regularly attended mass was around 2007-2008. I am not a Catholic though I was in RCIA for a time. I noticed several differences.

*The Gloria is now in Latin – it used to be sung in English.
*The Sanctus is now sung in Latin instead of English
*The Agnus Dei is now sung in Latin
*“And Also with you” has been changed to “And with your spirit”

When was it decided to change much of the mass to Latin and why?

Thank you for any answers. Peace.

Welcome back!

The Roman missal’s new English translation was introduced in the United States in late 2011. Some parishes do opt to do more in Latin than in years in past, above all for parts that are sung – but it would not be normative to be experiencing “much of the Mass in Latin”.

You may wish to contact the parish office and see which Masses may have less Latin. Typically, different Masses have different choirs or musicians. Often neighboring parishes will also have very different music programs.

It is also a handy moment to ask about the RCIA program, by the way…in the event you might like to visit a session or two – or even think about resuming.

Best wishes to you!

 

[Usige]

The last time I regularly attended mass was around 2007-2008. I am not a Catholic though I was in RCIA for a time. I noticed several differences.

*The Gloria is now in Latin – it used to be sung in English.
*The Sanctus is now sung in Latin instead of English
*The Agnus Dei is now sung in Latin
*“And Also with you” has been changed to “And with your spirit”

When was it decided to change much of the mass to Latin and why?

Thank you for any answers. Peace.

The use of Latin is really dependant on the parish. My parish only seems to use it during Lent. One of the choir leaders head almost exploded when Father told them he wanted them to use Latin for those 6 weeks. When she asked why, his response was “because we are Catholics”.

In theory every Roman Catholic is supposed to be taught and know the parts of Mass in Latin, but in practice this rarely happens. One of our deacons was suprised that the local homeschooling group knew the sign of the cross and hail mary in Latin. He said that most people say it is too hard to learn. If you sing it week in and week out it will come naturally with practice.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I attend several parishes, and I believe none of them use the Latin.

You apparently have not attended Holy Rosary Dominican Parish in Portland, Oregon. We have been chanting (ie, singing) the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei in Latin for as long as I have been a member (some 25+ years).

The part about “Also with you” has been changed to “And with your spirit” is part of the revised liturgy. But the other components have always been part of a musical “setting” and Latin components have always been approved for liturgical use (in the USCCB). Saying the whole Mass in Latin has not been continuously approved, but a Latin musical setting has always been approved, at least in the US.

 

[Duane1966]

You apparently have not attended Holy Rosary Dominican Parish in Portland, Oregon. We have been chanting (ie, singing) the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei in Latin for as long as I have been a member (some 25+ years).

The part about “Also with you” has been changed to “And with your spirit” is part of the revised liturgy. But the other components have always been part of a musical “setting” and Latin components have always been approved for liturgical use (in the USCCB). Saying the whole Mass in Latin has not been continuously approved, but a Latin musical setting has always been approved, at least in the US.

Well I’ve never been to Oregon, but I kinda like the music.

Some of the parishes in my diocese do sing those parts in Latin, but as an earlier poster said, it is only during Lent. Obviously, there are many parishes in my diocese that I have not attended, so they may sing all year.

On a side note, about a year ago, I thought I heard on Catholic Answers about a diocese here in the US that was considering making Latin mandatory in all their elementary schools. Did anyone else hear this, or am I totally hearing voices in my head?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Some of the parishes in my diocese do sing those parts in Latin, but as an earlier poster said, it is only during Lent.

There are no Mass (musical) settings that are allowed ONLY during certain liturgical seasons. If a setting is approved, it is approved for year-round use.

Any particular Parish may choose among any approved setting, and may change setting in any manner and as often as it chooses.

Some Parishes choose to use the Latin setting for Lent. They are perfectly free to do so. Other Parishes choose to use the Latin setting year-round. They are perfectly free to do so (though few do).

NOTE: These comments apply to Parishes under the USCCB. Other jurisdictions might have other rules.

 

[SMH_2015]

No Latin whatsoever in my church. I’ve been trying to teach myself the Rosary in Latin but…not so easy.

 

[Alex_H]

Welcome back!

The Roman missal’s new English translation was introduced in the United States in late 2011. Some parishes do opt to do more in Latin than in years in past, above all for parts that are sung – but it would not be normative to be experiencing “much of the Mass in Latin”.

You may wish to contact the parish office and see which Masses may have less Latin. Typically, different Masses have different choirs or musicians. Often neighboring parishes will also have very different music programs.

It is also a handy moment to ask about the RCIA program, by the way…in the event you might like to visit a session or two – or even think about resuming.

Best wishes to you!

Thank you! I am in the process of signing up for the RCIA program. The Deacon, who is the director of the program, was out of the office today but an office worker said I could come see him tomorrow.

 

[Alex_H]

The use of Latin is really dependant on the parish. My parish only seems to use it during Lent. One of the choir leaders head almost exploded when Father told them he wanted them to use Latin for those 6 weeks. When she asked why, his response was “because we are Catholics”.

In theory every Roman Catholic is supposed to be taught and know the parts of Mass in Latin, but in practice this rarely happens. One of our deacons was suprised that the local homeschooling group knew the sign of the cross and hail mary in Latin. He said that most people say it is too hard to learn. If you sing it week in and week out it will come naturally with practice.

You’re right. I have only attended one mass so I’m still getting used to things. I always loved the Gloria when it was sung in English. Easily one of the most beautiful parts of the mass. I am sure that I will come to appreciate other aspects of it. Who knows, in time, I may come to like the Latin even more.

 

[ProVobis]

You’re right. I have only attended one mass so I’m still getting used to things. I always loved the Gloria when it was sung in English. Easily one of the most beautiful parts of the mass.

Yes, but in 2007 you were singing a different version. “Glory to God in the Highest and Peace to His people on earth. Lord God, heavenly King, Almighty God and Father, we worship You, we give You thanks, we praise You for Your glory. Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father, Lord God, Lamb of God…” There were some nice settings for this but most of them have been made obsolete by the newer translation.

 

[Elizium23]

Saying the whole Mass in Latin has not been continuously approved

Come again? What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[Wesrock]

The last time I regularly attended mass was around 2007-2008. I am not a Catholic though I was in RCIA for a time. I noticed several differences.

*The Gloria is now in Latin – it used to be sung in English.
*The Sanctus is now sung in Latin instead of English
*The Agnus Dei is now sung in Latin
*“And Also with you” has been changed to “And with your spirit”

When was it decided to change much of the mass to Latin and why?

Thank you for any answers. Peace.

As stated, the new English translation was made a few years ago to better match the Latin missal. However, all the parishes I’ve been a part of still use English throughout the entirety of the mass, except for one I went to which did use Latin during the season of Lent (not for the whole mass, just the gloria, sanctus, mystery of faith, and agnus dei; but it was only during Lent).

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

The use of Latin is really dependant on the parish. My parish only seems to use it during Lent. One of the choir leaders head almost exploded when Father told them he wanted them to use Latin for those 6 weeks. When she asked why, his response was “because we are Catholics”.

In theory every Roman Catholic is supposed to be taught and know the parts of Mass in Latin, but in practice this rarely happens. One of our deacons was suprised that the local homeschooling group knew the sign of the cross and hail mary in Latin. He said that most people say it is too hard to learn. If you sing it week in and week out it will come naturally with practice.

Do you have a source for your “every Roman Catholic is supposed to be taught and know the parts of Mass in Latin” statement? My pastor, who is in his 60’s, said he had no Latin at the seminary level, and it’s difficult to believe that a Latin learning expectation is present for the laity, the vast majority of whom will only experience the Ordinary Form.

 

[ProVobis]

Do you have a source for your “every Roman Catholic is supposed to be taught and know the parts of Mass in Latin” statement?

From SC “Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them”

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Do you have a source for your “every Roman Catholic is supposed to be taught and know the parts of Mass in Latin” statement? My pastor, who is in his 60’s, said he had no Latin at the seminary level, and it’s difficult to believe that a Latin learning expectation is present for the laity, the vast majority of whom will only experience the Ordinary Form.

The documents you ask about may be found here: liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/Music/Jubilate/

The Holy See has indeed insisted over the years about the importance of the faithful being able to sing the common parts of the Mass in Latin, especially on account of gatherings of the faithful from various countries having different languages – as with the Holy Year of 1975, for example. And the Holy See, as a practical help, issued a booklet personally sent to every bishop by Blessed Pope Paul VI.

In my personal experience, the faithful of Europe and Africa do well in singing the Mass parts that are in Latin at Masses of the Holy Father, above all when assisted by the choir and when the Mass responses are taken from Mass VIII (the one familiarly known as The Mass of the Angels). From what I have seen over the years, though, I personally am dubious as to how well the directive was actually implemented in North America where, regrettably, even the requirement for seminarians to study Latin was not always complied with in years past.

Regarding the requirement that “Pastors of souls should take care that besides the vernacular ‘the faithful may also be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them’” I have gathered that the necessity of recourse to Latin as a common liturgical language was not as frequently a real and necessary prospect in North America as it was in Europe.

Note the post conciliar document Musicam Sacram, which makes explicit as a duty what Sacrosanctum Concilium called for. A relevant passage may be found here in paragraph 47:

*47. According to the Constitution on the Liturgy, “the use of the Latin language, with due respect to particular law, is to be preserved in the Latin rites.”

However, since “the use of the vernacular may frequently be of great advantage to the people” “it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used. Its decrees have to be approved, that is, confirmed by the Apostolic See.”

/…/

Pastors of souls should take care that besides the vernacular “the faithful may also be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”*

adoremus.org/MusicamSacram.html