When Did the "Mormon Jesus" Become Divine?

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I’ve read several threads discussing Mormon beliefs about the divinity of Jesus, and the consensus appears to be that Mormon doctrine holds Jesus to be divine, although completely separate and distinct from the Holy Spirit and God the Father (or God the Heavenly Father as Mormons prefer).

But some comments from posters to the site suggest Jesus was human just like us, or that he became God (or a god) at some point aftter he took on human form and is now divine.

I’m seeking clarification on the Mormon point-of-view. So, I’m calling to Mormons and to anyone who has studied the Mormon faith out there on the site, can you tell me your doctrinal understanding of the origins of Jesus’ Divinity? What do Mormons believe? Was he always a god? Was he always our God? Was he ever just human? Did he progress to divinity from humanity? Your responses are sincerely appreciated.
 
All I know is that I have heard my Mormon friend say Jesus is Divine and that He died for our sins, but I have since heard others say that their definition of the word “divine” is different from the Christian one. So I’m not really sure.
Robert in SD:
I’ve read several threads discussing Mormon beliefs about the divinity of Jesus, and the consensus appears to be that Mormon doctrine holds Jesus to be divine, although completely separate and distinct from the Holy Spirit and God the Father (or God the Heavenly Father as Mormons prefer).

But some comments from posters to the site suggest Jesus was human just like us, or that he became God (or a god) at some point aftter he took on human form and is now divine.

I’m seeking clarification on the Mormon point-of-view. So, I’m calling to Mormons and to anyone who has studied the Mormon faith out there on the site, can you tell me your doctrinal understanding of the origins of Jesus’ Divinity? What do Mormons believe? Was he always a god? Was he always our God? Was he ever just human? Did he progress to divinity from humanity? Your responses are sincerely appreciated.
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General overview. God the father had several spirit children, the first of which was Jesus. Mormons believe Jesus to be a separate god from God the father, thereby making Him deity. They believe that the God mentioned in the Old Testament is not God the father, but in fact Jesus. They hold Jesus to be the God of this world, with other gods ruling other worlds. So when exactly Jesus became God is unclear, but He is seen as deity from the time of the creation of this world.
 
I actually had a mormon co-worker tell me that “there is very little difference between LDS and RCC beliefs.” :eek: This from a woman who is a life long mormon and went on a mission (to France) for her church! Okay, either she knows NOTHING about her LDS church (impossible, I think), I need a hearing aid, or she was attempting to draw me into a discussion. I think the latter. (no pun intended)
 
Don’t study the LDS religion too hard. What ever they teach today can change tomorrow. If the president has a ‘vission’, Morman teaching, faith and morals can all change. Just like other protestant religions.

Catholic Faith and Morals and Dogma may add new insights but cannot change past practice. God does not change but He may add or clerify His word. Praise God! Catholics remain loyal to His word, allways!
 
Robert in SD:
I’ve read several threads discussing Mormon beliefs about the divinity of Jesus, and the consensus appears to be that Mormon doctrine holds Jesus to be divine, although completely separate and distinct from the Holy Spirit and God the Father (or God the Heavenly Father as Mormons prefer).

But some comments from posters to the site suggest Jesus was human just like us, or that he became God (or a god) at some point aftter he took on human form and is now divine.

I’m seeking clarification on the Mormon point-of-view. So, I’m calling to Mormons and to anyone who has studied the Mormon faith out there on the site, can you tell me your doctrinal understanding of the origins of Jesus’ Divinity? What do Mormons believe? Was he always a god? Was he always our God? Was he ever just human? Did he progress to divinity from humanity? Your responses are sincerely appreciated.
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They believe in “eternal progression”. This means that our God as we know Him progressed to God-hood from being a “man”. Jesus is actually is a spirit-child, like Satan. Jesus and Satan are “brothers” therefore (in their view, not mine). Satan chose rebellion while Jesus was the obedient child.

Here is a quote from their website at www.lds.org:

“Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge.”

You can find very useful information here. I have studied it quite a bit and have a copy of The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants in paperback at home.
 
Hey there Robert in SD,

I have actually asked the same question directly to them and they will tell you as they told me, and as they say with every difficult topic…This has not yet been revealed to us.

It’s frustrating, huh?

peace
 
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catsrus:
I actually had a mormon co-worker tell me that “there is very little difference between LDS and RCC beliefs.” :eek: This from a woman who is a life long mormon and went on a mission (to France) for her church! Okay, either she knows NOTHING about her LDS church (impossible, I think), I need a hearing aid, or she was attempting to draw me into a discussion. I think the latter. (no pun intended)
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This is a good question. Why if Catholicism is apostate, why do the Mormons work so hard to copy it? Except for the FLDS anyway. Truly bizaar.
 
Because they can lure more converts away if they are told by their “home church” that there is a radical divide between the two, and they “see for themselves” from the missionary discussions that the difference is only “really” surrounding the issue of weather Smith was a prophet (and therefore little more than an ecclesiastical shouting match, which is always distasteful to “reasonable, intelligent” investigators into Truth). 😛

Anyway, I think one of the unspoken ideas of Smithian Mormonism is that humanity is inherently Divine, and eternally is. It is only our position within our own progression that causes us to be blind to our estate (like a newborn who is still discovering the limits of their own physical being). Thus, Jesus was technically Divine from the beginning, even if he hadn’t yet acheived his full power (and still hasn’t, as he is progressing as well).

As it is generally taught that the posession of a mortal body is necessary for subsequent godhood, then it is a logical necessisty to suggest that Christ was not yet a “god” until after his death/ascension, and the Spirit is not yet at that state himself, as he has not yet been given a physical body. But, since Smith also taught, in canon scriptures, that spirit is just purified matter, then it could be argue that the Spirit does have a body, and so this mortality thing is superfluous, as we are never really disembodied; but then there is that (false?) distinction between bodies of “flesh and bone” vs. “flesh and blood” which re-inserts the possible necessity of distinction requiring experience as a physical being on our plane of existence…AAAAAAHHHH! make the room stop spinning…

OF course, this interpretation cannot be aught too loudly in the Modern Mormonism, wherein we must have the truths of the church in order to attain this divinity, as it is unattainable without the ordinances performed and delivered by the church (despite being an inherent trait of our being according to Smith’s revelations in D&C).
 
Mormon “theology” results in justifying unethical behavior. The psychology behind Mormon “theology”, and its psychological results are unhealty. Therefore, it is not legitimate “theology”, but, rather, contributes to the sociological malaise of this country.

It is nothing more than deification of liars, adulterers, murderers, and thieves. They were gnostic speculators who sought nothing more than to build a religion that justified their behavior and gave them power.
 
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BJRumph:
Because they can lure more converts away if they are told by their “home church” that there is a radical divide between the two, and they “see for themselves” from the missionary discussions that the difference is only “really” surrounding the issue of weather Smith was a prophet (and therefore little more than an ecclesiastical shouting match, which is always distasteful to “reasonable, intelligent” investigators into Truth). 😛

Anyway, I think one of the unspoken ideas of Smithian Mormonism is that humanity is inherently Divine, and eternally is. It is only our position within our own progression that causes us to be blind to our estate (like a newborn who is still discovering the limits of their own physical being). Thus, Jesus was technically Divine from the beginning, even if he hadn’t yet acheived his full power (and still hasn’t, as he is progressing as well).

As it is generally taught that the posession of a mortal body is necessary for subsequent godhood, then it is a logical necessisty to suggest that Christ was not yet a “god” until after his death/ascension, and the Spirit is not yet at that state himself, as he has not yet been given a physical body. But, since Smith also taught, in canon scriptures, that spirit is just purified matter, then it could be argue that the Spirit does have a body, and so this mortality thing is superfluous, as we are never really disembodied; but then there is that (false?) distinction between bodies of “flesh and bone” vs. “flesh and blood” which re-inserts the possible necessity of distinction requiring experience as a physical being on our plane of existence…AAAAAAHHHH! make the room stop spinning…

OF course, this interpretation cannot be aught too loudly in the Modern Mormonism, wherein we must have the truths of the church in order to attain this divinity, as it is unattainable without the ordinances performed and delivered by the church (despite being an inherent trait of our being according to Smith’s revelations in D&C).
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Jesus is still progressing? Really? This is what they think?
Let me ask in all sincerity after spending time on the Islam forum, is there really much difference between Islam and LDS? Both have later prophets who claim the Catholic Church is anti God. Both deny the perfection of Christ. Both request polygamy as a gift from God to men. Both denigrate women. Both have a Brigham Young philosophy at their core stating the positive good of killing the “sinner”. Both believe that Jesus’ efforts left something undone. Both have their own book of truth which is in use and both state clearly that the Catholic Church has altered their Bible completely and failed to translate clearly. Both change their theology according to secular law, and both turn a blind eye to their extreme personal sins of their own prophet. In fact not only a blind eye, but view those sins as somewhat endearing.
In all fairness, Islam does not have quite that extreme racism found in LDS, though. However, there does not seem to be much difference between the philosophy of reaching Godhood by marrying as many women as possible and the Islam reward of many virgins in heaven to any man who is faithful to Allah and Mohammed. It really is scary how much like Islam the LDS really is.
 
Because LDS is a copy of Islam, as it also copies and twists American Indian thought and history, Catholicism, and Masonry.

The differences:

Rigidly monothesitic vs polytheistic. Maybe BY only knew that a major divide between Islam and Christianity is the nature of the Trinity?

LDS had its roots in gnostic thinking, but today one can gain heaven only by following the leaders. Moderate Islam teaches that one should not set up living people as gods-- that one must follow one’s conscience.

LDS has a living prophet, in a long succession of prophets. Islam claims no prophets since Mohammed, although his descendants had religious authority for some time.

Islam is not racist, although ethnic Arabs do have more credibility in the Muslim world. LDS is patently racist.
 
I’ve read a few incorrect assertions here about LDS beliefs. LDS theology holds that Jesus IS divine and has ALWAYS been divine.

Also, it is incorrect to say that LDS believe Jesus is only the creator and God of this world. LDS scripture states that Jesus is the creator of the Universe (worlds without number) and that his atonement is infinite, covering ALL of Gods creations.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:32 - 33)

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:35)

1 LISTEN to the voice of the Lord your God, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, whose course is one eternal round, the same today as yesterday, and forever.
2 I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, even as many as will believe on my name, that they may become the sons of God, even one in me as I am one in the Father, as the Father is one in me, that we may be one.(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 35:1 - 2)
 
Casen, we are not criticizing your brand of Mormonism 🙂 . We are analyzing the stuff you are trying to leave behind. Settle down, OK?
 
Bruce R. McConkie, LDS apostle and scholar said the following about Christ’s atonement in his last conference talk before his death:

"I feel, and the Spirit seems to accord, that the most important doctrine I can declare, and the most powerful testimony I can bear is one of the atoning sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.
His atonement is the most transcendent event that ever has or ever will occur, from creation’s dawn and through all the ages of a never ending eternity. It was the supreme act of goodness and grace that only a God could perform.
 
See? Amidst the BS, they do say good things. A radical reform is what is necessary. :cool:
 
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Jerusha:
Casen, we are not criticizing your brand of Mormonism 🙂 . We are analyzing the stuff you are trying to leave behind. Settle down, OK?
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I didn’t realize I was upset.
 
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Casen:
Bruce R. McConkie, LDS apostle and scholar said the following about Christ’s atonement in his last conference talk before his death:

"I feel, and the Spirit seems to accord, that the most important doctrine I can declare, and the most powerful testimony I can bear is one of the atoning sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.
His atonement is the most transcendent event that ever has or ever will occur, from creation’s dawn and through all the ages of a never ending eternity. It was the supreme act of goodness and grace that only a God could perform.
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Read it more carefully then. I would be happier with this statement if he said this was an act of goodness and grace that only God could perform. Instaed once again, he opened the way to Adam and Eve toprovide an opportunity to fill in the blanks with more Gods. Only a God could perform. An example of what is not the Holy Spirit when writing. The Holy Spirit has no need to place a qualifying a before God.
 
Interesting theory that God created multiple worlds over time that Satan was the tempter for and Jesus the savior of…

This still doesn’t negate the LDS belief in Eternal Progression. i.e. There are other Gods with worlds (or universes if you want to quibble) that they created that have other tempters and saviors. I would also point out that this doctrine also requires that there was a time when God was not divine. (that time when he was a mortal man working out his own salvation and exaltation). So in essence LDS doctrine requires that Jesus had to wait until his Father was exalted before his spiritual birth, then He (along with us) supported God against Satan’s rebellion, created the earth (with help from Adam) was born, atoned for our sins, was resurected and THEN (after he had ascended to his Father) received his full glory. We could argue over the definition of divine in this timeline but I believe that this shows an LDS belief that Jesus has been “growing” into a God during the life of this earth.

LDS doctrine also teaches that Humans can not reach full exaltation without a “perfected” physical body (either through death/ressurection or translation)… which leads me to ask our LDS participants: Who is the Holy Ghost? Is he a God? When did he become divine? How come He doesn’t require a physical body? ( according to LDS beliefs)
 
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Jerusha:
Because LDS is a copy of Islam, as it also copies and twists American Indian thought and history, Catholicism, and Masonry.
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Joseph Smith himself said:
“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”
History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167
 
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