When did "We" start praying to Mary?

[Issa87]

I have had others argue that the apostles did not pray to her, so we shouldn’t either. I have seen the arguments that praying to her is Biblical on Catholic Answers on youtube, but I was wondering when the practice of praying to Mary and also to the saints actually began? Do we have an data on this? Did they teach what they do now about this, about what is in the book of Revelation? How did this process become mainstream?

 

[Brigid34]

We know that none would have prayed “to her” while she was alive and we know that in the catacombs there are figures of Mary and the words to the subtuem to Mary so that puts it no later than the 2nd century.

 

[Trebor135]

We know that none would have prayed “to her” while she was alive and we know that in the catacombs there are figures of Mary and the words to the subtuem to Mary so that puts it no later than the 2nd century.

Do you have any links on this?

I’ve read that the earliest-attested prayer of intercession to the Virgin Mary dates from ca. 300 AD. That’s really late–too easily explained as a corruption by Protestants who believe in a Great Apostasy.

 

[dmar198]

I have had others argue that the apostles did not pray to her, so we shouldn’t either. I have seen the arguments that praying to her is Biblical on Catholic Answers on youtube, but I was wondering when the practice of praying to Mary and also to the saints actually began? Do we have an data on this? Did they teach what they do now about this, about what is in the book of Revelation? How did this process become mainstream?

It is probable that prayers to Mary began with John the Apostle rather than the other Apostles, because most of the others were martyred before Mary’s Assumption. In the Book of Revelation, St. John writes about prayers ascending to the “elders” in heaven, and he writes about seeing Mary in heaven, so all the pieces were in place for him to have invoked her intercession. That somewhat suggests that it began with him. Another piece of evidence for this, apart from the Book of Revelation, comes from early Christian liturgy. Liturgical prayers to Mary have been found as early as 250 A.D. (It is called the Sub Tuum Praesidium. Google it for more info.) And liturgy is something that takes a long time to innovate on. If someone in Mass today started saying the wrong words, everyone would notice immediately and not go along with it, because in a liturgical setting everyone has to say the same words at the same time, and deviations are very obvious and unsettling. Because of that, it takes a very long time for innovations to happen organically, and therefore liturgy usually only changes if there is an authoritative source that authorizes a change. Since liturgical prayers to Mary were already in place so early in the Church’s history, the only way they could have got there is either if the Apostles instituted them, or if early bishops instituted them. If a bishop or a group of bishops had intentionally changed the liturgy, and if that had been an obvious departure from the Apostolic liturgy, the bishops around him would have known about it quickly and it would have been denounced as heresy. That didn’t happen, so we know that these things are either from the Apostles, or else are a legitimate development from what they introduced.

 

[JerryZ]

I have had others argue that the apostles did not pray to her, so we shouldn’t either. I have seen the arguments that praying to her is Biblical on Catholic Answers on youtube, but I was wondering when the practice of praying to Mary and also to the saints actually began? Do we have an data on this? Did they teach what they do now about this, about what is in the book of Revelation? How did this process become mainstream?

I believe the affair started at the wedding of Canaa and it must have not stopped ever since to be so pervasive
I mean for Heaven’s sake we are talking about THE LORD’s MUM.
As for praying to and or for the Saints I think St. Paul gives compelling evidence in a couple of his epistles.
Protestants actually don’t have a prayer trying to disprove that praying (which in old english means ASKING) to the saints in Heaven for their intercession it is totally Biblical.

 

[Edward_H]

Did the apostles likely talk with Mary?

Does death separate us from members of the body of Christ?

 

[SonCatcher]

I have had others argue that the apostles did not pray to her, so we shouldn’t either. I have seen the arguments that praying to her is Biblical on Catholic Answers on youtube, but I was wondering when the practice of praying to Mary and also to the saints actually began? Do we have an data on this? Did they teach what they do now about this, about what is in the book of Revelation? How did this process become mainstream?

The earliest instance of someone proclaiming Mary’s greatness:

Luke 1:26-28
the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary. And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.

The earliest instance of someone obtaining Mary’s intercession:

John 2:1-5
On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” [And] Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”

 

[angeldia30]

Another wonderful instance in the bible where Mary and the Apostles are praying for her intercession is on the Feast of Pentecost. This is where Mary asks the Holy Spirit to descend on the Apostles when they were afraid and locked in the Upper Room. This is also called the “Birthday of the Church” because on this same day, Peter and the Apostles went out and baptized everyone they meet in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The followers of the Apostles grew to 5,000 that day.

 

[pablope]

I have had others argue that the apostles did not pray to her, so we shouldn’t either. I have seen the arguments that praying to her is Biblical on Catholic Answers on youtube, but I was wondering when the practice of praying to Mary and also to the saints actually began? Do we have an data on this? Did they teach what they do now about this, about what is in the book of Revelation? How did this process become mainstream?

The practice of praying for t he dead, the use of relics…started with the Jews, our roots:

calledtocommunion.com/2012/08/relics-saints-and-the-assumption-of-mary/

Brown challenged my view that the place of saints and relics in the church was a mere holdover from paganism, and that the practice was somehow peripheral to true Christianity. Instead, Brown painted a picture of ancient Christianity and paganism in which relics were indispensable to the former, and repulsive to the latter. Far from a holdover from paganism, the place of relics in the Church appeared as something intensely Jewish, Hebraic, and Old Testament. Pagans, like Julian-the-Apostate, found the practice revolting and legislated against it. (Paganism, with its notions of ritual purity, had strictly delimited the realm of divine worship and neatly separated it from the realm of corpses and the dead.)

Saints and Relics as Biblical

As I explored this conundrum, the first thing I began to appreciate was just how biblical the practice really was. I realized that the veneration of relics, belief in their miraculous powers, and in the intercession of departed saints and angels was deeply Hebraic and Jewish. We find testimony to it in such places as 2 Kings 13:20-21, 2 Maccabees 15:12-16, and Tobit 12:12-15, considered especially in comparison to Revelation 5:8. (At this point, it was immaterial to me whether Maccabees and Tobit should be considered canonical texts. It was enough that they expressed a historic Jewish belief in these concepts.)

To take my favorite example:

2 Kings: 13:20-21:

Elisha died and was buried. At the time, bands of Moabites used to raid the land each year. Once some people were burying a man, when suddenly they spied such a raiding band. So they cast the dead man into the grave of Elisha, and everyone went off. But when the man came in contact with the bones of Elisha, he came back to life and rose to his feet.

 

[maryhope]

Amazing Grace; What happened in Cana’s Wedding? Who was the one who asked her son to start his ministry? The Apostles called her Mother, and she was with them when the Holy Gost came, and fire languages annointed each one of them. ST John took care of her, by Jesus words, “Woman there is your Son”, and to “ST John, Son there is your Mother”. Where is the intelect, and reasoning with faith of mankind? Faith, inteligence, and reasoning is for me a Holy Trinity, you can’t divorce neither one of them. To much faith and no reasoning and inteligence, makes you and extremist christian, reasoning divorce with faith and inteligence, make you an atheist. Since Genesis, Salms to Revelations, she is there, in Silence “Do all what He tells you”. By the way do you catholics know wthat the Our Father, the master prayer is the open gate of communication directly with God?
Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name. At that mement the door of our Heart opens to God and praise Him. Then comes 7 petitions we ask. 1. Thy Kindom come. 2. Thy will be done one earth as it is in heaven.3 Give us this day our daily bread (Trinity again, The Eucaristic bread, the word of God for our souls, and the bread to eat) 4.And forgive us our trespasses, 5. as we forgive those who trespass against us.6. And lead us not into temptation. 7. But deliver us from evil. Amen. The wisdom of Jesus, never take this prayer for granted, slow and meditate each word. This was the prayer the Apostles made at 3:00 p.m. in the Temple.Please have a conversation with me. I need friends. God Bless you all. Amen:thumbsup: