B
belgianwaffles9
Guest
thats tragic. That is not only my favorite Advent/Christmas hymn, but one of my favorite songs ever. So amazingly perfect for the season of advent: reverent, penitential, ever watchful…
- Status
P
puzzleannie
Guest
persuade your people to sing it at the proper tempo it will sound like a new song. also, since it is the only one most people know, choirs just don’t sing all the other gread advent songs, stick a burr under their saddles. actually O Come should be sung beginning the 16th with evening prayer, and there is a specific verse for each night of the novena, which coincide with the O Antiphons.
you want a real rouser try Days of Elijah, but remember the bridge verse, repeated 4 x between verses is “Who was and Who is and Who is to come”.
you want a real rouser try Days of Elijah, but remember the bridge verse, repeated 4 x between verses is “Who was and Who is and Who is to come”.
V
valmoc
Guest
Byers,
I just signed up for this forum after reading your submission. I completely feel the same way. I have a feeling that we may be of different generations however I too miss the days when Christmas Carols are played during the season of Advent. Today is the second Sunday of Advent and the music was dull again to say the least. I find myself looking around the church to see how many people are singing along and maybe catch five people at the most.
After mass today, I politely went up to our music director and asked if we might hear any Christmas songs next weekend and his courteous response? “Doubt it.” I probably wouldn’t be so heated about this subject if I hadn’t received such a rude and vague response as above.
I understand there is great controversy surrounding this but I must agree with you entirely. Is it so wrong that parishioners would like to celebrate the Christmas season in church earlier than December 25th? Yes, I have celebrated birthdays earlier than the date (not an exact comparison I know) and I have celebrated holidays such as Thanskgiving as dates other than Thanksgiving. I celebrate the holidays with both my family and my husband’s family and I think the most important thing is that WE ARE CELEBRATING. No one is wanting to do it maliciously or to hurt anyone else. We simply want to celebrate in anticipation of the special day. Is that really so terrible??
I just signed up for this forum after reading your submission. I completely feel the same way. I have a feeling that we may be of different generations however I too miss the days when Christmas Carols are played during the season of Advent. Today is the second Sunday of Advent and the music was dull again to say the least. I find myself looking around the church to see how many people are singing along and maybe catch five people at the most.
After mass today, I politely went up to our music director and asked if we might hear any Christmas songs next weekend and his courteous response? “Doubt it.” I probably wouldn’t be so heated about this subject if I hadn’t received such a rude and vague response as above.
I understand there is great controversy surrounding this but I must agree with you entirely. Is it so wrong that parishioners would like to celebrate the Christmas season in church earlier than December 25th? Yes, I have celebrated birthdays earlier than the date (not an exact comparison I know) and I have celebrated holidays such as Thanskgiving as dates other than Thanksgiving. I celebrate the holidays with both my family and my husband’s family and I think the most important thing is that WE ARE CELEBRATING. No one is wanting to do it maliciously or to hurt anyone else. We simply want to celebrate in anticipation of the special day. Is that really so terrible??
A
agapewolf
Guest
In the liturgy, we follow the rules of the Mass, and we celebrate the season we are in. NOT the one that happens in a few weeks.
During Lent, we abstain from the Alleluia and the Gloria. We do penance. On Easter, we resurrect and resume the Alleluia.
Same with Advent. Mary had to wait with Christ was in her womb. She had to prepare. By God’s design we must prepare for a baby for 9 months. We prepare for weddings, we stretch before exercising. We must also prepare our souls for the incarnational dwelling of Christ.
Everything done in the mass has theological reasons for it…from the position of the priests hands to the order the readings are read. Same with the placement of music, acclamations, etc. Singing songs about the joy of Christ’s birth just because the stores are playing it does not suffice, especially when the whole point of theliturgies during advent are about Preparing the way of the Lord.
We are not celebrating the birht of Christ during advent. We are reminding ourselves of the need of God. To train ourselves to long for him. We must have death in order to resurrect.
During Lent, we abstain from the Alleluia and the Gloria. We do penance. On Easter, we resurrect and resume the Alleluia.
Same with Advent. Mary had to wait with Christ was in her womb. She had to prepare. By God’s design we must prepare for a baby for 9 months. We prepare for weddings, we stretch before exercising. We must also prepare our souls for the incarnational dwelling of Christ.
Everything done in the mass has theological reasons for it…from the position of the priests hands to the order the readings are read. Same with the placement of music, acclamations, etc. Singing songs about the joy of Christ’s birth just because the stores are playing it does not suffice, especially when the whole point of theliturgies during advent are about Preparing the way of the Lord.
We are not celebrating the birht of Christ during advent. We are reminding ourselves of the need of God. To train ourselves to long for him. We must have death in order to resurrect.
V
valmoc
Guest
I’d rather hea the music earlier in the the church than in the stores (that’s why I shop online during the holidays) but we all have our own opinions and the rules are the rules. I respect that. Just voicing my opinion. 
Yes, it is, and the posters here have already cited the excellent reasons. It’s not about what the parishioners want. It’s about what the Church wants. Advent is not Christmas. A little reading tells us that Advent has a two-fold character, and in the days before December 17, we are meditating on the Second Coming and the final judgment. That’s not the stuff Christmas carols are made of.
From December 17 to 23, we move to meditating on his First Coming. How can we sing Christmas hymns then, when the Church is chanting for 7 days the O Antiphons, expressing her yearning for the coming of the Lord? Singing Christmas during those days is tantamount to saying, “what the heck, I’m tired of waiting, let’s start the party without him.”
And I’m sure I’m not the only one who does not relish the idea of Christmas hymns being sung while the church is presently decked in penitential violet and the Gloria is suppressed.
Christmas hymns must wait for the Vigil. THAT is the proper time to celebrate the anticipation of Christmas.
B
benedictgal
Guest
You have covered some excellent points in your commentary. Unfortunately, we as a Church have somehow managed to let the marketplace dictate when and how we will celebrate the upcoming Christmas season. Take a listen to your top 40 radio station, your country station and even the adult contemporary station. I was driving on my way back home from my business trip to College Station and all I heard on the way back was Christmas carols. One of the Catholic universities in San Antonio was already hawking their trail of Christmas lights. The malls have been decked out in Christmas decorations even before Halloween came to pass. The malls must make money so that the employees can feed, clothe and shelter their families. I ought to know first hand as my father was a downtown merchant (assistant general manager for one of the stores) and he had to support our family.
But, when parishes jump the gunj and “start” Christmas, there are problems. One of the parishes in College Station was announcing that they would be putting up their Christmas trees around the parish on the feast of St. Nicholas. I brought the bulletin home to show a friend. He was appalled. Although the pastor meant very well in trying to show kids who the real St. Nicholas was, we can’t confuse the seasons. That doesn’t quite help anybody.
It’s almost become somewhat schizophrenic for a Catholic this time of year. The secular world blares out that it’s Christmas. The Church clearly tells us no. We are in Advent. We need to regain that sense of joyful expectation that we have somehow lost. The Church gives us seasons for a reason. Advent is a penitential season of hope. We await with longing for the return of Jesus, while we also anticipate the joy that the Christmas season will bring.
The O Antiphons are the Church’s most ancient prayer of expectation. In Spanish, the word hope is translated as “esperanza”, which derives itself from the word “esperar”, which means, to wait. Waiting, then, is the key word to marking the season of Advent.
As my PV (parochial vicar) said in his homily for the first Sunday of Advent, we don’t throw birthday cake and candles at a pregnant woman and celebrate the birth of her first child before the baby is even born. You don’t pass out cigars to celebrate the birth of your child while your wife is 8 months pregant. No, the celebration comes when the child is born. That’s when the festivities begin, and, in certain cultures, they run up until the baby is baptized.
Let us then take our Blessed Mother as an example of this joyful expectation. Let us quiet our hearts and souls and ponder, with joyful hope the Advent of our King.
B
byers
Guest
valmoc,
sorry, I just saw your post. so glad you joined this marvelous forum and I thank you for your submission. now i don’t feel so alone. i know and have heard many many many times all the valid reasons for no carols during advent, nevertheless I would still enjoy hearing and singing them. It puts me more in the mood for celebrating Christmas and I have a better feeling about what we are celebrating and look forward to it joyfully. To me Lent is the penitential season not advent. Advent is more joyful expectation
I believe only the Bishops could instigate a change in this regard and it wouldn’t hurt to write to them. Most likely wouldn’t help either, but worth a try
Bless you for taking the time to write. Merry Christmas!
(not sure I’m allowed to wish you a Merry Christmas during advent)
sorry, I just saw your post. so glad you joined this marvelous forum and I thank you for your submission. now i don’t feel so alone. i know and have heard many many many times all the valid reasons for no carols during advent, nevertheless I would still enjoy hearing and singing them. It puts me more in the mood for celebrating Christmas and I have a better feeling about what we are celebrating and look forward to it joyfully. To me Lent is the penitential season not advent. Advent is more joyful expectation
I believe only the Bishops could instigate a change in this regard and it wouldn’t hurt to write to them. Most likely wouldn’t help either, but worth a try
Bless you for taking the time to write. Merry Christmas!
(not sure I’m allowed to wish you a Merry Christmas during advent)
B
benedictgal
Guest
Byers, perhaps you and valmoc might do well to sit down and reflect on the mystery of Advent. Picture yourselves in the Blessed Mother’s place. She had the Son of God in her womb. Don’t you think that she was anxious to hold Him in her arms and to gaze upon that little face for the first time? She couldn’t very well speed up the nine months. It just doesn’t work that way. If she, who was the bearer of the Eternal Word and who gave him her very flesh, had to wait to celebrate her Son’s birth, why can we not wait? We need to respect the seasons that the Church gives us. No matter what the secular world says, this is not Christmas. It’s Advent.valmoc,
sorry, I just saw your post. so glad you joined this marvelous forum and I thank you for your submission. now i don’t feel so alone. i know and have heard many many many times all the valid reasons for no carols during advent, nevertheless I would still enjoy hearing and singing them. It puts me more in the mood for celebrating Christmas and I have a better feeling about what we are celebrating and look forward to it joyfully. To me Lent is the penitential season not advent. Advent is more joyful expectation
I believe only the Bishops could instigate a change in this regard and it wouldn’t hurt to write to them. Most likely wouldn’t help either, but worth a try
Bless you for taking the time to write. Merry Christmas!
(not sure I’m allowed to wish you a Merry Christmas during advent)
Advent is a penitential season. The Gloria is silent. We take on the mentality of St. John the Baptist by preparing the way for the Lord. This Sunday’s Gospel reminds us that we need to repent and convert so as to truly welcome the Lord when his arrival comes. While the penitential regimen for Lent is more solidly pronounced (no Gloria, no Alleluia, Lenten sacrifices), Advent carries its own discipline. As a Church, we await the Savior’s second coming and we anticipate the celebration of his first arrival as the Infant King.
I can fully understand where both of you are coming from because for awhile, I felt the same way. My dad was the senior assistant manager for a downtown department store. My mother (who died during the Christmas season-January 7th) was in charge of the store Christmas party. We felt kind of tired once December 25th came around because we mistakenly thought that it ended there. It’s as though you’re on a rollercoaster ride and you’ve gone through the excitement and the ride is now over.
It wasn’t until I started studying the Liturgy (especially the seasons of the liturgical year) that I came to realize that we, as a Church, need to reclaim Advent. Many people think that Christmas happens now and it ends on December 25th. That is not how the Church sees it. Christmas begins the evening of December 24th and stretches until the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord. In some cultures, it lasts a full 40 days until the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord. In fact, at the Vatican, the Nativity Scene remains up until February 2nd. They are putting up the creche at St. Peter’s Square; however, Baby Jesus (and the Christmas Tree) aren’t highlighted until the midnight Mass.
I hope this helps you. Think of the two great personages of Advent, our Blessed Mother and St. John the Baptist. If you can, grab a copy of the Magnificat for December. It will help you along your Advent journey.
Have a most Blessed Advent!
P
Petergee
Guest
What “great controversy”? Until I opened this thread I had no idea that any parish ever sang Xmas hymns/carols in Advent, or even that some people were asking them to. The only exception I have ever heard of is when primary schools have an anticipated Xmas liturgy just before they break up, a few days before Xmas. (The schools don’t reopen til February in the S. Hemisphere, when a new school year begins and the kids are in a new grade or new school.)
The violet color of the Church would tell you otherwise.
True, that’s why, the Alleluia is not suppressed during Advent. In some jurisdictions, the violet may even have a slightly more bluish hue (but not blue), but the color is still violet.
I believe only the Bishops could instigate a change in this regard and it wouldn’t hurt to write to them. Most likely wouldn’t help either, but worth a try
Bless you for taking the time to write. Merry Christmas!
There is nothing governing “merry Christmas” since it is outside of liturgy. One may even have Christmas parties ahead of time and sing Christmas carols to his heart’s content even before the 25th. But liturgy is another story, the the Church has her own season and for good reason.
V
valmoc
Guest
Thank you for everyone’s detailed responses. It saddens me that the tone of some people are a bit condescending. Although we should, not all Catholics know all the rules of the church.
I simply wanted Byers to know that I felt the same way. However wrong our opinions may be, I just wanted her to know that I agreed with her. I understand why and I respect why. After reading all the previous responses, I thought it would be nice to reach out to someone who I related to. For a topic so heated, I will next time send a private message to the person instead.
Thank you to those who were kind in their responses and explanations. To all - have a very safe and happy holiday season.
I simply wanted Byers to know that I felt the same way. However wrong our opinions may be, I just wanted her to know that I agreed with her. I understand why and I respect why. After reading all the previous responses, I thought it would be nice to reach out to someone who I related to. For a topic so heated, I will next time send a private message to the person instead.
Thank you to those who were kind in their responses and explanations. To all - have a very safe and happy holiday season.
B
benedictgal
Guest
V
valmoc
Guest
benedictgal,
I did not find you rude. I felt you were helpful and quite passionate about the church. Thank you for your clarifications and information on getting additional teachings on this.
I just wanted to reach out to byers on the forum. As I mentioned in my previous post, I shall do that privately in the future.
Thanks again!
I did not find you rude. I felt you were helpful and quite passionate about the church. Thank you for your clarifications and information on getting additional teachings on this.
I just wanted to reach out to byers on the forum. As I mentioned in my previous post, I shall do that privately in the future.
Thanks again!
M
MusicTeacher
Guest
Hi Thread,
As a music teacher I have noticed this year that most of my high school students do not know or recognise many religious christmas CAROLS.15 years ago, when I first started teaching, most of my students recognised most carols.
They know lots of christmas SONGS (ie Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer, Jingle Bells, Santa Clause is coming to town…etc) but they do not know many Carols (Silent Night, Away in a Manger, Hark the Herald Angels Sing etc).
I teach in a Catholic high school as well as an Anglican high school in Brisbane and probably half of my students attend church regularly.
Whilst it can be argued that Advent occurs prior to the 24th, the rest of the Australian community is celebrating the forthcoming Christmas season earlier. Children hear Christmas Songs everywhere they go, at the shops, at school etc. They do not hear Carols much because they are not sung in the place you would expect to hear them, at church.
The children, who are the future generation, are learning to associate Christmas with secular songs and images. By not singing CAROLS in church prior to Christmas we are breeding a whole generation of children who don’t even recognise ‘Silent Night’ by the time they are 18 years old.
As a music teacher I have noticed this year that most of my high school students do not know or recognise many religious christmas CAROLS.15 years ago, when I first started teaching, most of my students recognised most carols.
They know lots of christmas SONGS (ie Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer, Jingle Bells, Santa Clause is coming to town…etc) but they do not know many Carols (Silent Night, Away in a Manger, Hark the Herald Angels Sing etc).
I teach in a Catholic high school as well as an Anglican high school in Brisbane and probably half of my students attend church regularly.
Whilst it can be argued that Advent occurs prior to the 24th, the rest of the Australian community is celebrating the forthcoming Christmas season earlier. Children hear Christmas Songs everywhere they go, at the shops, at school etc. They do not hear Carols much because they are not sung in the place you would expect to hear them, at church.
The children, who are the future generation, are learning to associate Christmas with secular songs and images. By not singing CAROLS in church prior to Christmas we are breeding a whole generation of children who don’t even recognise ‘Silent Night’ by the time they are 18 years old.
J
Jennifer_J
Guest
You’re the music teacher, YOU can teach them the songs! That’s what I had to do when I taught music. However, Christmas music doesn’t belong in Mass until Christmas, and then you can sing them until epiphany. Those are the rules. What do you teach children by not following the rules?
Jennifer
M
MusicTeacher
Guest
It is not about whether or not I am able to teach the children the songs. Of course I can. It is that over the past 15 years I have noticed a decline in the average child’s ability to recognise the tunes of Christmas Carols as opposed to Christmas songs probably because they hardly ever hear them any more in the community.
B
byers
Guest
MusicTeacher
I do agree with you. The younger generations are missing something somewhere and they really don’t know the old carols like they used to.
B
byers
Guest
Valmoc I can only say ‘Amen’ and I thank you for your kindness. To me you represent the true spirit of Catholicism.
benedictgalThank you for your thoughtful advice. But I do read the Magnificat every morning before daily mass and I do understand the Church’s reasoning. But in truth, reflecting on the words of some of those beautiful carols help me to appreciate advent and do more for me than all the readings in the world. Sorry I can’t change that.
A very merry Christmas to you too.
P
Phemie
Guest
I learned the old carols in my home, not at church, and that’s mainly where my kids learned them because I made sure they heard them.
I can’t agree with the idea that, because secular society doesn’t provide traditional carols, we should do something that makes no liturgical sense.
- Status