When do I bear culpability for mental sin? Help!

[thepottersclay]

Hello,

I have been fighting seeing impure images in my mind for several months now. I have been told by a priest in the confessional that I struggle with scrupulosity and I think being unsure about how I stand before God in my struggle against these images is very tied up with my worry about sin. God is beginning to heal me, but I am never sure when I should be going to confession and when I am in the state of grace in order to take the Eucharist.

The images I see are usually momentary and can be anywhere from the of an unknown couple or a known couple “in the marital embrace”, to images of the opposite genders privates, to seeing holy people - even our Lord - doing sexual things. I despise the fact that I have these thoughts.

What I have been told by priests is that as long as I am not seeking out impure images and as long as I am not trying to meditate on or entertain these thoughts “when they come” I am not guilty of mortal sin. What bothers me is the “when they come part”. I have identified 4 levels at which these thoughts can enter my brain:

1. the suggestion of a thought - me feeling close to being tripped into thinking about something impure. If I deny the thought at this level, I am not worried about the sinfulness of what is going on. I consider that temptation.
2. If I don’t deny the suggestion of a thought (1) and see something. If this happens, this is usually within seconds shut down.
3. Sometimes step 1 (suggestion of a thought) is skipped all together and something just pops in my brain. This, like the above (2) is usually immediately or within seconds shut down.
4. I entertain a thought. This has happened on less than a handful of occasions that I can recall. This, as I understand is mortal sin and needs to be confessed.

What I am worried about then is what is going on in situations 2 and 3. My rational will DOES NOT have the desire to be seeing impure things. I detest the thought that with these thoughts I may be slapping our Lord in the face. I don’t want to reject or hurt Him. However, if this is my express desire, why do I still see these things? Sometimes it feels like there is a part of me that is seeking out impurity - sometimes as a test to myself, sometimes because I think that this fallen part of me is just in love with impure things. I assume this is my sinful nature taking control for a moment.

So where does this leave me? When I have situations like 2 and 3 am I guilty of mortal sin? How do I view this battle?

I will so appreciate your help.

Blessings
-K, thepottersclay

 

[Bookcat]

I can not read all the post at the moment…but I go the jist from the title.

This may be of help:

from previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life…

Jimmy Akin had some on this: jimmyakin.org/2005/04/a_crown_of_thor.html)

---

Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business

 

[Bookcat]

(another older post)

When one is tempted…

Some signs that one lacked consent or gave only “partial consent”:

If even though there was some instinctive pleasure …we do not want it…we are unhappy or horrified about the evil…or struggle to not be overcome …we turn to God in Prayer --these are some signs of no consent (if of course we stay in this stage…and do not later consent)

(For example some thoughts come out of the blue just cause one happened to see an attractive person…and one does not want the thoughts but turns to God in Prayer or is horrified by them and turns to something else etc…no matter how much they come back…if one does not consent at all…there is no sin…but rather possibly growth in virtues)

If one hesitates for a moment but then does not want to sin and so rejects it and does not give full consent (thus a fault against prudence)

If one resists but the resistance is half hearted…one does resist but it is weak or slow…but in the end one rejects it…such would seem to be half consent and thus venial

Of course if one then gives in and gives full consent…then such can be mortal…remember…partial consent or half consent is not full consent…and thus not mortal.

(Based on A Tanquery… he bases things on S. Augustine…but much of this is simply repeated in various places…for it is the basics in judging such)

 

[valentino]

thePottersclay: I agree with your priest only 4 is mortal sin.

 

[Waiting]

One of the saints – maybe St. Teresa of Avila – complained to Jesus that she was having such bad thoughts. He smiled and said, “You didn’t enjoy them, did you?” So, as long as you do your best to prevent them from coming, or hurry their exit, there is no sin. I imagine the devil is enjoying himself at these times. I like to picture myself delivering a swift kick to his posterior at these times. The comical scene lightens the tenseness, and it’s easier to get on with other thoughts. Keeping occupied, or interested in other things, helps keep the ugly thoughts away. Good luck and God bless.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Here’s where the rubber meets the road, so to speak: In your will. Having an impure thought pop up is not a sin. Consenting to it, however, is. Example: You’re on the beach and you see this absolutely beautiful woman walk by in a skimpy bikini. Temptation occurs! You have two choices: 1) Reject the temptation ("No! I would never do that! It’s wrong!) or 2) Consent to the temptation. (“I know it will probably never happen, but, boy, if I had half a chance, I’d…”) In the case of 2, go to Confession ASAP.

 

[Barbkw]

We’re human beings, bombarded with visual images on television & internet and mental verbal pictures from radio & iPods, cellphones… Images come and go, thoughts come and go.

As above, and as Jesus said multiple times; “Be not afraid.” The Holy Spirit is tempering your armour - and that requires facing your temptations. The Holy Spirit is also changing your heart - so that your mind turns to what is good, what is beautiful and what is True.