When do non-Catholics view themselves as "not married anymore"?

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HomeschoolDad

HomeschoolDad

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I realize that many non-Catholics, of all persuasions and none, view marriage as able to be dissolved, or as ceasing to be. In other words, there is a point at which they say “we aren’t married anymore”. My question: when does that point take place? When does the marriage dissolve?
  • When one or both decide they don’t want to be married anymore?
  • When love dies?
  • When one or the other does something so outrageous that it makes staying together impossible?
  • When one of them (or, conceivably, both) engage in repeated adultery with no intention of ceasing to commit adultery? (I have in mind the “except it be for fornication” verse in the Bible.)
  • When one of them finds someone else they want to marry instead? (Happens all the time.)
  • When the judge lays down the gavel in the divorce court?
And is it more of a process of gradual disintegration, or is it a discrete event? Either one depending on circumstances?

I don’t agree with any of this, but I am interested to know how non-Catholics think and believe.
 
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To me marriage is a contract and an indication of intention. There is at least a presumed exit clause and it is open to constant amendment. As with all contracts (formalised relationships between people) there are different ways it can end. If I contract with a dog-walker to walk my dog ever day, that contact might be ended with a deal to do it only on weekends. Or in winter. Or every second day. Or they might turn up less and less until eventually I contracted another one. So to with any relationship between people. I have been married only once but would still see myself as having a relationship with my wide even if we split up - it’s just the relationship would be different. I understand that to those who see marriage as a sacrament things are very different. But that’s not me.
 
For Catholics it is a covenant instead of a contract.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Your answer is basically “all of the above” and likely, a few more reasons.

I don’t know if there ever has been a survey of non-Catholics which could answer these questions.
 
Can’t speak for anyone else, but Jesus reiterated Moses in Deuteronomy 24 that when a spouse finds something “indecent” in their spouse, they can give a letter of divorce to them. Back then, that is when the divorce was recognized. Today, the apostle Paul stated that we must abide by the laws of the land. When a husband & wife separates, in order for a divorce to be “legal” they must file with the courts. Once the judge declares them “divorced,” then they are. Until then, they are simply legally separated, but still technically married since they can join back together if they change their mind. Unfortunately, this was not God’s plan for marriage from the beginning which was for marriage to be a permanent binding covenant until death, even in cases of adultery such marriages can still be saved with genuine repentance, counseling, and forgiveness.
 
It is? From where do you deduce anything of what I think or believe. Please tell me what I believe again, I’m fascinated.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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HomeschoolDad said:
I realize that many non-Catholics, of all persuasions and none, view marriage as able to be dissolved, or as ceasing to be. In other words, there is a point at which they say “we aren’t married anymore”. My question: when does that point take place? When does the marriage dissolve?
  • When one or both decide they don’t want to be married anymore?
  • When love dies?
  • When one or the other does something so outrageous that it makes staying together impossible?
  • When one of them (or, conceivably, both) engage in repeated adultery with no intention of ceasing to commit adultery? (I have in mind the “except it be for fornication” verse in the Bible.)
  • When one of them finds someone else they want to marry instead? (Happens all the time .)
  • When the judge lays down the gavel in the divorce court?
And is it more of a process of gradual disintegration, or is it a discrete event? Either one depending on circumstances?

I don’t agree with any of this, but I am interested to know how non-Catholics think and believe.
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The marriage has ended when a divorce is final. That’s it. Not before no matter what emotions or lack of them abound.
 
Yes, this is when most non-Catholics I know would consider themselves not married — when the civil divorce decree is made final.

I know a person who recently re-married the same spouse she had divorced a couple of years before, which was an interesting dynamic. I am happy for them.

I’ve been married 39 years to my first and only wife and our marriage hasn’t been perfect, but we’ve been committed to working through our problems by not playing the “divorce” card and leaving it off the table. We believe we were married in God’s eyes, too.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
And is it more of a process of gradual disintegration, or is it a discrete event? Either one depending on circumstances?

I don’t agree with any of this, but I am interested to know how non-Catholics think and believe.
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they believe all sorts of things…
 
Maybe ask a different question first: when do people recognize that they are married?
  • when they first met
  • when they fell in love
  • when they committed themselves to one another (engagement)
  • when they first had sex (consummated)
  • when the state recognized the marriage
  • when the Church recognized it
  • when she walked down the aisle
  • when they vowed to stay with one another
  • when they exchanged rings
Many of these happen on a single day, making it difficult to distinguish them. But the answer determines the answer to the divorce question, ie if legal/state recognition defines it, then the marriage ends wih a divorce decree.
 
thistle said:
I realize that many non-Catholics, of all persuasions and none, view marriage as able to be dissolved, or as ceasing to be. In other words, there is a point at which they say “we aren’t married anymore”. My question: when does that point take place? When does the marriage dissolve?
  • When one or both decide they don’t want to be married anymore?
  • When love dies?
  • When one or the other does something so outrageous that it makes staying together impossible?
  • When one of them (or, conceivably, both) engage in repeated adultery with no intention of ceasing to commit adultery? (I have in mind the “except it be for fornication” verse in the Bible.)
  • When one of them finds someone else they want to marry instead? (Happens all the time .)
  • When the judge lays down the gavel in the divorce court?
And is it more of a process of gradual disintegration, or is it a discrete event? Either one depending on circumstances?

I don’t agree with any of this, but I am interested to know how non-Catholics think and believe.
Click to expand...
That’s interesting. They say that a sacramental marriage (or a natural one) is dissolved, and ceases to exist, when the secular judge lays down a gavel. In the case of the former, pretty good sacramental theology they’ve got going on there.

The “gradual disintegration” theory actually makes more sense. Not that I agree with it, but at least it has an internal logic to it — imperfect human persons make a covenant or moral compact, but people being what they are, that covenant/contract can disintegrate or dissolve to the point of non-existence due to factors both internal to the partners, or external to them as the case may be, or a combination of both. (An example of the latter would be third parties interfering, kibitzing, “running interference”, and tampering with the covenant/contract such that it falls apart.)

One thing that also makes sense — not that I agree with it, but it does make sense — is that the sacrament of matrimony itself “dissolves” and ceases to be, in the same way that the Blessed Sacrament ceases to be when the species no longer can be recognized as having the appearances of bread and wine (natural disintegration in the digestive system, being physically destroyed by dissolving in water or burning/evaporation, decomposing, and so on). You could also make the case that the sacrament “dies”. Not agreeing, not advocating, just looking it from that point of view.
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TheLittleLady said:
Catholics, non-Catholics, atheists, agnostics, Muslims, reformed Druids, fall into every one of your bullet points as well as out side of them.

Your threads demonstrate a curiosity about divorce. These resources might help your research:

http://nationalmarriageproject.org/
Marriage & Divorce - Research and data from the Pew Research Center
Surviving Divorce - About Us

pfavico.ico
Marital Healing

The Institute for Marital Healing | Resource Marriages | United States​

The mission of the Institute for Marital Healing is to strengthen Catholic marriages and families through a time-tested approach to marital therapy. Our website uncovers the leading causes of marital conflicts, especially excessive anger,…

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/marriage/divorce/index.cfm
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I am curious about a number of things. I seek to understand people and why they do what they do. I don’t see that as a bad thing (not that you suggested this).

I discerned the priesthood for a couple of years while I was in college. I did not take the plunge and go to minor seminary, I just couldn’t go through with it. I sought to understand people, in that this was going to be a big part of my job description. Counselors, psychologists, social workers, judges, and even parents — which I am — have to understand not only what people do, but why, what makes them tick, what they were thinking when they did thus-and-so. When I travel in foreign countries, or even in parts of the United States where cultural norms are different, I try to understand “why do they do that?”. I think of it as being broad-minded and realizing that people see things differently.
 
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I can spend all day watching documentaries, reading non fiction, I get it!!
 
TheLittleLady said:
I can spend all day watching documentaries, reading non fiction, I get it!!
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My local community college offers an introductory course in anthropology, one subject I never got around to taking in undergraduate school back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. In one year I will be eligible to take classes tuition-free (age 60). I may just do it. (Think of Rodney Dangerfield in Back To School.)

If I get “on a roll”, I may end up taking classes alongside my son when he goes there. The ultimate humiliation… (for him, not for me) 👨‍🎓 👨‍👦

 
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When the other person is dead. “Therefore what God brings together, let no one separate”.
 
I think it is a very private thing between two individuals. And it’s not the same for everybody, in fact, it is probably different for everyone. I don’t think there is one correct answer.
 
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I had been a Protestant. So I would say that non-Catholics generally consider marriage a legal bond, and think a marriage ends when they are legally divorced. And this is what society tells them–for a court dissolved their marriage officially.
 
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Actually, most Christian denominations accept divorce as the end of a marriage. They will tell you straight to your fact that God told them to divorce.
 
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