When Do Souls Begin?

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When are souls created? Do they exist before impregnation or are they created at impregnation?

I know the Irish legend says souls are created in the MacGuffin. I believe it’s called but am uncertain how it’s spelled.
 
Although it is not explicitly stated in Church doctrine, we can determine from related teaching exactly when souls are created and united with their bodies.

First, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) defines a “human person” as “a unity of spirit and matter, soul and body” (CCC Glossary). So every human person has a spiritual soul.

Also, “[t]he Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God” (CCC 366). In other words, souls are not created before or after a human person comes into existence but, rather, immediately at the first moment of the person’s existence.

So, if we can determine when a human person comes into existence, we can also know when his soul is created and united with his body.

When discussing abortion, the Catechism teaches that, “Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person… (CCC 2270; emphasis added). From this we can see that the Church clearly understands the first moment of a person’s existence to be the moment of conception.

Therefore, since (1)every human person has a spiritual soul, (2) spiritual souls are created at the moment a human person comes into existence, and (3) human persons come into existence at the moment of conception, then souls must be created and united with their bodies at the moment conception.

from ask an apologist here
 
Starwynd said:
When are souls created? Do they exist before impregnation or are they created at impregnation?

I know the Irish legend says souls are created in the MacGuffin. I believe it’s called but am uncertain how it’s spelled.
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starwynd,
Ps.139 :13-16
"For you created my inmost being. you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 15. my frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be… this is the “Book of Life.” 😃
As Christians we are ‘Body Soul and Spirit’

God bless,
jean8
 
Starwynd said:
That really doesn’t answer my question.

sorry.
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it doesn’t?
How did God create you? With an empty body? 🙂
When we die our soul and spirit go to the Lord.
Our body turns to dust.

1Th 5:23 “And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamelessly at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
The soul is us. Our being.
That’s a good question btw. 🙂

God bless,
jean8
 
At the moment of conception. A human is a body/soul unity. When the body exists, so does the soul…teachccd 🙂
 
Hi All,

Sometimes two embryos fuse together to form what is called a chimera. What happens to the extra soul? Sometimes an embryo splits in two to form twins. Do twins share a soul? Does any of this soul arithmetic add up?

Best,
Leela
 
Starwynd said:
When are souls created? Do they exist before impregnation or are they created at impregnation?
…
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I guess they begin when the feminists say they begin… if you want to be politically correct about it…
 
Beliefs vary between cultures and religions/faith systems. Even the Ancient Egyptians had a concept of the soul - though it is somewhat complicated. Some believe the soul is “old” - not created new for each individual birth. This is not necessarily suggestion reincarnation, though it can. The idea is that there are many, many realms/levels of existance of which our human life on earth is only a small part. Our “souls”/“awareness”/“spirit” existed before this life and will continue on. This is my personal belief. As for the Judeo/Chrisitian viewpoint, I found this here:

school-for-champions.com/religion/have_soul.htm

The concept of the soul is different in the Jewish Bible Old Testament than in the Christian New Testament. The Hebrew word for soul occurs some 700 times in the Old Testament, but often it is used as a similar word for person (i.e. “He was a hearty soul.”). Some passages imply that the living body is a soul.
The Greek word for soul is used 100 times in the New Testament. That usage is more aligned to the Greek—and the modern—idea of a soul as separate from the body.
As for the Egyptian concept, should anyone be interested:

thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/egypt_soul.html

The belief was that there are 8 immortal parts of us that survive death, the top 3 below. The 9th part of our makeup was the physical body. Interesting reading.

*Akhu (Akh, Khu, Ikhu) - This was the immortal part, the radiant and shining being that lived on in the Sahu, the intellect, will and intentions of the deceased that transfigured death and ascended to the heavens to live with the gods or the imperishable stars. The Akhu came in to being after the deceased passed judgement after death, and the Ka and Ba united.

Sahu - The incorruptible spiritual body of man that could dwell in the heavens, appearing from the physical body after the judgement of the dead was passed (if successful) with all of the mental and spiritual abilities of a living body.

Sekhem - This was the incorporeal personification of the life force of man, which lived in heaven with the Akhu, after death. *
 
Starwynd said:
Thanks teach, that’s the kind of answer I was looking for.
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Me too. I didn’t understand the other responses either.
Do you think that the difference between a living human and a dead one is the presence or the absence of the soul?
 
Molly2000z said:
Do you think that the difference between a living human and a dead one is the presence or the absence of the soul?
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Actually, that is the difference between the living and the dead. However, it’s much deeper than that.

The ancient Greek philosophers believed the mind and soul to be equal (meaning the mind is the soul and the soul is the mind). That is, the soul is our essence. There is a mysterious connection between the body and soul. Take, for instance, consciousness. Something can happen physically to one’s body that will cause the person to become unconscious (which is a state of unawareness). Additionally, hormonal imbalances can effect one’s emotional state. What happens to the mind can be manifested through the body, and what happens to the body can be manifested through the mind.

So, let’s bring this back to life and death. Life is essentially the soul existing in the physical realm through the body, whereas death is the body existing in the physical realm without the soul, where the soul has entered the eternal, spiritual realm.
 
Molly2000z said:
Me too. I didn’t understand the other responses either.
Do you think that the difference between a living human and a dead one is the presence or the absence of the soul?
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I’ve never considered that.

No I think dead applies only to the physical body.
 
Leela said:
Hi All,

Sometimes two embryos fuse together to form what is called a chimera. What happens to the extra soul? Sometimes an embryo splits in two to form twins. Do twins share a soul? Does any of this soul arithmetic add up?

Best,
Leela
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leela,
No!

jean8
 
Hi Jean8,

I asked, does any of this arithmetic of souls add up?

You said,
jean8 said:
leela,
No!

jean8
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I agree. I don’t think it makes sense ot talk about souls as discrete entities that are inserted at some point in time.

I don’t think it makes much sense to talk about the “soul” as other than a word we use for the deepest sense of the word “self.” I don’t think such embryos can reasonable be thought of as people. We harvest living organs from the brain dead? Can a small collection of cells without a brain be thought to be any more of a living human being?

Best,
Leela
 
Hello Leela,
Leela said:
Hi Jean8,
We harvest living organs from the brain dead?
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There are strict ethical and moral limitations on any procedure which removes organs, particularly organs necessary for life. “Brain death”, unless it means actually dead, does not give license to harvest, and effectively kill, a human being.
Leela said:
Can a small collection of cells without a brain be thought to be any more of a living human being?
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Of course it can, if you are comparing an embryo with a dead person (and not merely with someone who is “brain dead”). An embryo is alive, and will remain alive until dead. A dead person is dead and will remain so.

When do you suppose the embryonic human become alive?

VC
 
I think when the first piece of the father’s DNA and the first piece of the mother’s DNA make chemical contact (proximity close enough to cause chemical attraction) the new soul comes into existence.
Chimerae have one soul per living embryo – the other dies when they fuse.
Identical twins have separate souls – one the original, the other a slightly younger one that came into being at the moment of absolute neural separation. In the case of conjoined twins with a shared central nervous system and/or partially shared brain, it is best to ask them when they are old enough. If they have separate consciousness, they are two.
 
Verbum_Caro said:
There are strict ethical and moral limitations on any procedure which removes organs, particularly organs necessary for life. “Brain death”, unless it means actually dead, does not give license to harvest, and effectively kill, a human being.
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The brain dead person’s organs are still alive or else they would be useless? They are composed of living human cells. Is it murder to kill such human cells?

Best,
Leela
 
Leela,

Brain death, if it is truly brain death, means that the person is irrevocably dead – all brain function, including that of the brain stem, irreversibly cease.

If someone is dead, they are dead – they don’t come back alive. At that point organs may be licitly removed.

But a living human being who has died is quite distinct from a living embryonic human being. That embryo is alive, or it isn’t. It will continue to grow and sustain its own life. A brain dead individual does not.

It’s just not a valid comparison.

VC
 
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